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#166
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Banned Herbicides & Pesticides
"ned" wrote in message ... Franz Heymann wrote: snip ....... but my worry is that I doubt if enough food to feed the whole world would be produced if organic farming principles were applied globally. Franz There will never be enough food to feed the whole world. Your concern is about an unsolvable problem. It is my understanding that at the present time it is possible to produce enough food to feed the whole world. For how much longer that would be true is a moot point. First priority should be to curb the population then apply a neat 'environmentally clean' solution to the food production. I agree that there are far too many humans in the world. They are ruining the planet at one hell of a rate. I have a strong feeling that sooner or later mother nature will take that matter in hand. (But mother nature's methods are pretty crude.) Franz |
#167
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Banned Herbicides & Pesticides
"dave @ stejonda" wrote in message ... In message , Franz Heymann writes So-called organic husbandry is, by my understanding, a set of techniques which aim to increase the levels of the 'agents' you mention. Rather than relying on factories to produce concentrated chemical feeds in an energy intensive fashion the aim is to increase the soils own fertility in the long term in a sustainable way. All talk of specific substances which can be applied to the soil or not is subsidiary to the underlying approach. That is a laudable attitude, but my worry is that I doubt if enough food to feed the whole world would be produced if organic farming principles were applied globally. There's plenty of food-producing capacity. It's the inequalities in distribution and consumption that create an apparent shortage. Developed countries (particularly the US) need to reduce their over-consumption and stop leeching resources from the developing world. The attribution marks in this note have gone for a burton, as a result of indiscriminate editing and removal of headers. I am incapable of expressing myself as well as in the section here attributed to me. Franz |
#168
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Banned Herbicides & Pesticides
"Alan Gould" wrote in message ... In article , martin writes why is pyrethrum not allowed Alan? It becomes unsuitable when it is processed from plants in the chrysanthemum family into pyrethrins [esters] for herbicidal or insecticidal use. In the botanical form, the same plants can have beneficial uses, e.g. as in the use of Feverfew for aches and pains etc. I use an infusion of that admirable plant as a nerve tonic and pick-me- up -- often after a session in urg! :-( I have not yet seen the answer to the question. And what do the words "in the botanical form" mean in the present context? Franz |
#169
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Banned Herbicides & Pesticides
"Laurie Moseley" wrote in message ... ubject: Banned Herbicides & Pesticides From: "Franz Heymann" Date: 14/08/2003 15:11 GMT Daylight Time Message-id: "Laurie Moseley" wrote in message ... This is the problem. It's the usual trap of trying to make "I understand it in this way" mean "Everyone understands it in this way". That is one of the reasons why communication is often so poor. Could this be the basis for many divorces ? (Insert Smiley) How on earth are we supposed to know what you are talking about, when you have stripped off all headers and every vestige of context? Fair point. A slip of the finger - I intended to reply to the sender, not to the group. My apologies. Accepted. You are forgiven. {:-) Franz |
#170
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Banned Herbicides & Pesticides
"Alan Gould" wrote in message ... In article , Franz Heymann writes (a) On what grounds are nicotine classified as "not organic"? Nicotine is a dangerous poison not permitted for use by commercial growers of organic produce and not recommended for use by recreational gardeners wishing to follow organic methods. The fact that nicotine and many other banned substances originate from plant or animal material does not make them suitable for use in organic growing. (b) How is pyrethrum classified? (c) An organic afficionado claimed in this ng (this thread?) that Bordeaux mixture was classified as organic. Both Pyrethrum and Bordeaux Mixture are listed as not suitable for use in organic horticulture. Along with other substances, they are listed as permissible to be used by growers in the conversion period to organic growing. Produce grown with their use cannot be sold as organic. Oh dear. Give me that old time non-organic food. Franz |
#171
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Banned Herbicides & Pesticides
Franz Heymann wrote:
snip I agree that there are far too many humans in the world. They are ruining the planet at one hell of a rate. I have a strong feeling that sooner or later mother nature will take that matter in hand. Agreed. (But mother nature's methods are pretty crude.) I can't see a 'sensible' solution being reached by mankind. So if mother nature does over do it a bit, then it serves mankind right for not reacting to the inevitable. -- ned |
#172
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Banned Herbicides & Pesticides
In article , Franz Heymann
writes It becomes unsuitable when it is processed from plants in the chrysanthemum family into pyrethrins [esters] for herbicidal or insecticidal use. In the botanical form, the same plants can have beneficial uses, e.g. as in the use of Feverfew for aches and pains etc. I use an infusion of that admirable plant as a nerve tonic and pick-me- up -- often after a session in urg! :-( I have not yet seen the answer to the question. Check your PC, the answer appears on my screen in red lettering. And what do the words "in the botanical form" mean in the present context? It means when the plant is alive and growing and thus consists of living organisms. -- Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs. |
#173
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Banned Herbicides & Pesticides
"Alan Gould" wrote in message ... In article , Franz Heymann writes It becomes unsuitable when it is processed from plants in the chrysanthemum family into pyrethrins [esters] for herbicidal or insecticidal use. In the botanical form, the same plants can have beneficial uses, e.g. as in the use of Feverfew for aches and pains etc. I use an infusion of that admirable plant as a nerve tonic and pick-me- up -- often after a session in urg! :-( I have not yet seen the answer to the question. Check your PC, the answer appears on my screen in red lettering. And what do the words "in the botanical form" mean in the present context? It means when the plant is alive and growing and thus consists of living organisms. If I were to try and classify that statement properly, my language would have to be so anally oriented that you would detest me even more than you do now, so I will refrain. Franz |
#174
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Banned Herbicides & Pesticides
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 08:42:19 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote: "Alan Gould" wrote in message ... In article , Franz Heymann writes It becomes unsuitable when it is processed from plants in the chrysanthemum family into pyrethrins [esters] for herbicidal or insecticidal use. In the botanical form, the same plants can have beneficial uses, e.g. as in the use of Feverfew for aches and pains etc. I use an infusion of that admirable plant as a nerve tonic and pick-me- up -- often after a session in urg! :-( I have not yet seen the answer to the question. Check your PC, the answer appears on my screen in red lettering. And what do the words "in the botanical form" mean in the present context? It means when the plant is alive and growing and thus consists of living organisms. If I were to try and classify that statement properly, my language would have to be so anally oriented that you would detest me even more than you do now, so I will refrain. Please do..... Are we living in Brave New World or 1984 already? -- Martin |
#175
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Banned Herbicides & Pesticides
In article , Franz Heymann
writes It means when the plant is alive and growing and thus consists of living organisms. If I were to try and classify that statement properly, my language would have to be so anally oriented that you would detest me even more than you do now, so I will refrain. Sorry about that Franz, I should have added that botany is the science of plants. -- Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs. |
#176
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Banned Herbicides & Pesticides
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#178
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Banned Herbicides & Pesticides
In message , Alan Gould
writes In article , martin writes What is important, is what consumers think they are buying in supermarkets when they buy organic. Perhaps a bit of publicity is needed to clarify this for the woman with the shopping trolley. The woman and the man buying organic produce are protected by laws which ensure that they are sold food of the approved organic standards. That is of course organic as applied to food production, strictly regulated and monitored. I agree that more publicity for it would be welcome. That's why there are middle men doing dodgy deals to rebadge ordinary produce with fake Organic(TM) credentials. There are several such prosecutions in progress in Belgium at the moment for large scale flouting of the laws related to selling on conventional produce as Organic(TM). This is inevitable since some conventional produce may be essentially identical to the Organic(TM) stuff if it can be fitted up with suitable false documentation the fraud is virtually impossible to detect analytically. And the high premium that it commands encourages such fakery. Incidentally is Organic(TM) produce air freighted from Africa still Organic(TM) when it reaches the UK ? By that point it will have used an order of magnitude more petrochemicals getting it here than would be applied to grow it locally even under the worst conventional farming regimes... The main problem with Organic(TM) is that it fails to solve the problem of supermarket customers demanding cosmetically perfect fruit and vegetables all year round. And the customer is always right. Organic(TM) is a religion and not a rational way to proceed. Its entry costs are too high and products are too expensive to make a major impact. Which is better for the environment ? Getting 5% of farmers to use "no chemicals at all" and go Organic(TM) or Getting the other 95% to use say 50% less chemicals and accept slightly lower yields. I am no fan of over intensive farming. And the UK has a rather bad public attitude to food as crude "fuel" which has put emphasis on quantity over quality. In mainland Europe good food is seen as an essential part of life - a viewpoint I subscribe to. You are after all what you eat. Minimum inputs is a far more reasonable approach but much much harder to sell to the consumer than the Organic(TM) "no chemicals" slogan. Regards, -- Martin Brown |
#179
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Banned Herbicides & Pesticides
On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 07:39:05 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote: I am no fan of over intensive farming. And the UK has a rather bad public attitude to food as crude "fuel" which has put emphasis on quantity over quality. In mainland Europe good food is seen as an essential part of life - a viewpoint I subscribe to. You are after all what you eat. I don't think the Dutch have that attitude, after all most of the pretty and tasteless vegetables on sale in UK supermarkets are grown in Dutch green houses, using vast quantities of natural gas. The quality of the vegetables in Zuid Holland was what initially made my wife decide to grow her own vegetables. Particularly disgusting were Dutch carrots that were grown in fields sprayed or injected with raw pig manure. The carrots stunk of pig muck when cooked. Ear and throat infections caused by pig muck dust blowing in the wind was endemic. The quantity of vegetables that can be produced from a 10x10metre plot, without using any chemicals at all is really amazing and the superb taste is even more amazing Minimum inputs is a far more reasonable approach but much much harder to sell to the consumer than the Organic(TM) "no chemicals" slogan. The slogan is not true is it? -- Martin |
#180
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Banned Herbicides & Pesticides
Martin Brown wrote in message ...
[...] Minimum inputs is a far more reasonable approach but much much harder to sell to the consumer than the Organic(TM) "no chemicals" slogan. Just in case: I've just cancelled a reply to your very sensible message, based on a hung-over-from-sleeping-pill total misunderstanding. If it gets through, I'd be grateful if everybody would ignore it! Mike. |
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