I've never been one for growing plants from seed but I did this year
because we've just got a potting shed. I planted california poppies, pot
marigolds, nicotiana (Fragrant cloud and N. sylvestris), Verbena
bonairensis, basil (sweet and Thai), Hugarian wax peppers, Cerinthe,
Eryngium (unknown variety, from a friend, and something called butterfly
weed (seed bought in Canada). The basil has been an unqualified success and
the flavour is excellent. The chillies are doing well too (although I
discovered when they started to flower that one of the carefully nurtured
seedlings was a cuckoo...it turned out to be a willowherb!) although I've
discovered they grow enormous and I will definitely have to repot them into
large pots. The only thing that failed altogether was the eryngium....but
I've read the seed has to be planted fresh to germinate. The butterfly weed
also bit the dust...although it germinated well, one day I found all the
seedlings had the tips nibbled off: no culprit in sight, and all other
seedlings untouched. Any ideas? The verbena took ages to germinate but is
now doing well.

However, despite doing all the fiddly "pricking out" for the Nicotiana,
calendula and cerinthe that I did, the plants seem to have really weak
stems at the point at which they join the soil, giving really floppy
plants. Is this because I replanted them too close together? I replanted
them further apart than they had germianted, in deeper trays using JI no 2
mixed with the seed compost I germinated them in, as that's all I had
available, and not enough room to put all the seedlings in individual pots.

My california poppies are also a bit of a disaster. I planted them out
about a month ago, since when they appear to have shrunk if anything! They
are in dryish soil, in a part of the garden that is a suntrap when the sun
is on it but doesn't get sun the whole day. What's wrong with this?

I would appreciate advice because although its been fun, its taken a lot
more time than I anticipated, and so far, apart from the basil, there's not
a lot to show for it (I have had flowers from the marigolds but didn't
plant enough of them for a really dramatic effect). Next year, I'll be on
maternity leave with more time to spend on planting seeds.

Thanks
Anita

On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:22:55 +0100, "A.Malhotra"
wrote:

I've never been one for growing plants from seed but I did this year
because we've just got a potting shed. I planted california poppies, pot
marigolds, nicotiana (Fragrant cloud and N. sylvestris), Verbena
bonairensis, basil (sweet and Thai), Hugarian wax peppers, Cerinthe,
Eryngium (unknown variety, from a friend, and something called butterfly
weed (seed bought in Canada). The basil has been an unqualified success and
the flavour is excellent. The chillies are doing well too (although I
discovered when they started to flower that one of the carefully nurtured
seedlings was a cuckoo...it turned out to be a willowherb!) although I've
discovered they grow enormous and I will definitely have to repot them into
large pots. The only thing that failed altogether was the eryngium....but
I've read the seed has to be planted fresh to germinate. The butterfly weed
also bit the dust...although it germinated well, one day I found all the
seedlings had the tips nibbled off: no culprit in sight, and all other
seedlings untouched. Any ideas? The verbena took ages to germinate but is
now doing well.

However, despite doing all the fiddly "pricking out" for the Nicotiana,
calendula and cerinthe that I did, the plants seem to have really weak
stems at the point at which they join the soil, giving really floppy
plants. Is this because I replanted them too close together? I replanted
them further apart than they had germianted, in deeper trays using JI no 2
mixed with the seed compost I germinated them in, as that's all I had
available, and not enough room to put all the seedlings in individual pots.

My california poppies are also a bit of a disaster. I planted them out
about a month ago, since when they appear to have shrunk if anything! They
are in dryish soil, in a part of the garden that is a suntrap when the sun
is on it but doesn't get sun the whole day. What's wrong with this?

I would appreciate advice because although its been fun, its taken a lot
more time than I anticipated, and so far, apart from the basil, there's not
a lot to show for it (I have had flowers from the marigolds but didn't
plant enough of them for a really dramatic effect). Next year, I'll be on
maternity leave with more time to spend on planting seeds.

Thanks
Anita

The ones that were floppy at the soil - did they look like the stems
had narrowed at the base causing them to flop over?

If so I think it's called "damping off" due to overwatering them.

Mark S.

In article , A.Malhotra
writes


The butterfly weed
also bit the dust...although it germinated well, one day I found all the
seedlings had the tips nibbled off: no culprit in sight, and all other
seedlings untouched. Any ideas?

Sounds like slugs. They tend to go for something they like and leave
neighbouring pots untouched.

I've just had the tops chomped off a potful of Lithops :-(

However, despite doing all the fiddly "pricking out" for the Nicotiana,
calendula and cerinthe that I did, the plants seem to have really weak
stems at the point at which they join the soil, giving really floppy
plants. Is this because I replanted them too close together?

Too little light? It always happens to me. They sort themselves out
eventually.

Did you really prick out the nicotianas? I can never muster the patience
to do anything than divide the mass into 1 inch squares and plant those
out.


My california poppies are also a bit of a disaster. I planted them out
about a month ago, since when they appear to have shrunk if anything! They
are in dryish soil, in a part of the garden that is a suntrap when the sun
is on it but doesn't get sun the whole day. What's wrong with this?

That *sounds* OK. But I find they grow well on my wet clay, so maybe
they do need somewhere damper? I don't know.

Next year, I'll be on
maternity leave with more time to spend on planting seeds.

Don't you believe it!
Hobbies are something you do before you have children ;-)
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

I use a multipurpose compost in shallow rectangular trays, and find
that it's well worth sowing any seed large enough to pick up
individually, at regimented spaces at least an inch apart in all
directions. (Cerinthe and basil, for example, are easily large enough to
handle). It is a little fiddly but quite quick, and not nearly as fiddly
as trying to separate clumps of minute seedlings. Larger spacing gets
seedlings off to a far better start imho, because they can get nicely
established roots, without becoming drawn/skinny, before being potted
on. Also, it's easy to identify emerging shoots from the spaced seeds;
any which appear in the wrong place are most likely weeds and can
easily be tweaked out.

Most people have found themselves struggling to accommodate/care
for/offload thousands of seedlings of one sort, when they only needed
10, or 100. Individual spacing of seeds helps eliminate that.

Janet.

On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:22:55 +0100, A.Malhotra wrote:

I've never been one for growing plants from seed but I did this year
because we've just got a potting shed.

Uh, oh! The rot is starting to strike deep!

I planted california poppies,... and something called butterfly
weed (seed bought in Canada).

Likely Asclepia tuberosa. The host plant for the monarch
butterfly.


My california poppies are also a bit of a disaster. I planted them out
about a month ago, since when they appear to have shrunk if anything! They
are in dryish soil, in a part of the garden that is a suntrap when the sun
is on it but doesn't get sun the whole day. What's wrong with this?

They're *poppies* -- and as a general rule the entire family
dislikes root disturbance and transplantation. I suggest you sow
them in situ and thin if necessary -- but when thinning remember
the old adage that the weakest plant is often of the choicest
form or color.

I think your california poppies have a good chance of coming back
next year even if this year's performance is lousy.


--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

"A.Malhotra" wrote in
:

However, despite doing all the fiddly "pricking out" for the
Nicotiana, calendula and cerinthe that I did, the plants seem to have
really weak stems at the point at which they join the soil, giving
really floppy plants. Is this because I replanted them too close
together? I replanted them further apart than they had germianted, in
deeper trays using JI no 2 mixed with the seed compost I germinated
them in, as that's all I had available, and not enough room to put all
the seedlings in individual pots.

A tip that I got here, which has proved very good, is to bury seedlings
almost up to the first pair of leaves in compost when potting on, so that
the weak point is buried.

Sounds like it should cause damping off, but it doesn't: it really works,
The buried stem puts out new roots and the whole plant becomes stronger.

I've also found that if I failed to do this, I can sift more compot onto
the top later.

Dunno about nicotiana and calendula, but I find the difficult thing with
cerinthe is to *stop* growing it. It self-seeds very readily.

Victoria
--
gardening on a north-facing hill
in South-East Cornwall
--

Victoria Clare wrote:

"A.Malhotra" wrote in
:

However, despite doing all the fiddly "pricking out" for the
Nicotiana, calendula and cerinthe that I did, the plants seem to have
really weak stems at the point at which they join the soil, giving
really floppy plants. Is this because I replanted them too close
together? I replanted them further apart than they had germianted, in
deeper trays using JI no 2 mixed with the seed compost I germinated
them in, as that's all I had available, and not enough room to put all
the seedlings in individual pots.

A tip that I got here, which has proved very good, is to bury seedlings
almost up to the first pair of leaves in compost when potting on, so that
the weak point is buried.

Sounds like it should cause damping off, but it doesn't: it really works,
The buried stem puts out new roots and the whole plant becomes stronger.

Thanks, that sounds like a V good tip. I thought it would create problems
so was careful not to bury them deeper than they were.

Dunno about nicotiana and calendula, but I find the difficult thing with
cerinthe is to *stop* growing it. It self-seeds very readily.


Great, one less thing to bother about sowing next year. I love plants that
self seed. Even the millions of teasel seedlings that come up every year
haven't put me off. I actually LIKE weeding.....the cerinthe are not doing
too well now though, since its got damp again. The slugs seem to like them

Anita

Mark wrote:

On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:22:55 +0100, "A.Malhotra"
wrote:

However, despite doing all the fiddly "pricking out" for the Nicotiana,
calendula and cerinthe that I did, the plants seem to have really weak
stems at the point at which they join the soil, giving really floppy
plants. Is this because I replanted them too close together? I replanted
them further apart than they had germianted, in deeper trays using JI no 2
mixed with the seed compost I germinated them in, as that's all I had
available, and not enough room to put all the seedlings in individual pots.

Thanks
Anita

The ones that were floppy at the soil - did they look like the stems
had narrowed at the base causing them to flop over?

If so I think it's called "damping off" due to overwatering them.

Mark S.

Well, they are narrower at the base....that's why they flop! But I think
they've always been that way. They have been in a potting shed which we
partially screened with a thin sheet because it was getting a lot of direct
sun and getting very hot. The compost still seemed to dry out very quickly
so although I was watering them regularly, I don't think the compost was
staying damp all the time.
Anita

Janet Baraclough wrote:

I use a multipurpose compost in shallow rectangular trays, and find
that it's well worth sowing any seed large enough to pick up
individually, at regimented spaces at least an inch apart in all
directions. (Cerinthe and basil, for example, are easily large enough to
handle). It is a little fiddly but quite quick, and not nearly as fiddly
as trying to separate clumps of minute seedlings. Larger spacing gets
seedlings off to a far better start imho, because they can get nicely
established roots, without becoming drawn/skinny, before being potted
on. Also, it's easy to identify emerging shoots from the spaced seeds;
any which appear in the wrong place are most likely weeds and can
easily be tweaked out.

Most people have found themselves struggling to accommodate/care
for/offload thousands of seedlings of one sort, when they only needed
10, or 100. Individual spacing of seeds helps eliminate that.

Janet.

I wasn't too sure how successful I would be as the only thing I've grown
from seed before is pot marigold! I realise now that I planted far too much
nicotiana and far too few marigolds. I'll have a better idea next year and
might try your method. The only thing I don't regret overplanting is the
basil!
Anita

Kay Easton wrote:

In article , A.Malhotra
writes


The butterfly weed
also bit the dust...although it germinated well, one day I found all the
seedlings had the tips nibbled off: no culprit in sight, and all other
seedlings untouched. Any ideas?

Sounds like slugs. They tend to go for something they like and leave
neighbouring pots untouched.

I've never seen any slugs in the potting shed so i doubt it. I was
wondering about woodlice? or wasps? Both of which I have seen plenty of in
the shed.

Too little light? It always happens to me. They sort themselves out
eventually.

We had to shade the glass because the light seemed too strong. We used an
old thin sheet. I suppose that might have cut the light too much. But even
the cerinthe that I potted up individually and put outside have stayed
floppy.


Did you really prick out the nicotianas? I can never muster the patience
to do anything than divide the mass into 1 inch squares and plant those
out.

Yes.....although patience was definitely wearing thin by then. Your way,
does one seedling eventually take over in each clump? How big are they when
you plant them out?



My california poppies are also a bit of a disaster. I planted them out
about a month ago, since when they appear to have shrunk if anything! They
are in dryish soil, in a part of the garden that is a suntrap when the sun
is on it but doesn't get sun the whole day. What's wrong with this?

That *sounds* OK. But I find they grow well on my wet clay, so maybe
they do need somewhere damper? I don't know.

Ah...I assumed that they'd like somewhere hot and dry being from
California. But if they like damp, they should be perking up after the last
week's rain....
Anita

Rodger Whitlock wrote:

On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:22:55 +0100, A.Malhotra wrote:

I've never been one for growing plants from seed but I did this year
because we've just got a potting shed.

Uh, oh! The rot is starting to strike deep!

I planted california poppies,... and something called butterfly
weed (seed bought in Canada).

Likely Asclepia tuberosa. The host plant for the monarch
butterfly.

My california poppies are also a bit of a disaster. I planted them out
about a month ago, since when they appear to have shrunk if anything! They
are in dryish soil, in a part of the garden that is a suntrap when the sun
is on it but doesn't get sun the whole day. What's wrong with this?

They're *poppies* -- and as a general rule the entire family
dislikes root disturbance and transplantation. I suggest you sow
them in situ and thin if necessary -- but when thinning remember
the old adage that the weakest plant is often of the choicest
form or color.

Okay, thats news to me. Thanks

I think your california poppies have a good chance of coming back
next year even if this year's performance is lousy.

I didn't think they were hardy enough to overwinter....it would be nice if
they did. Do you grow them as perennials were you are?

Anita

In article , A.Malhotra
writes


Victoria Clare wrote:

Dunno about nicotiana and calendula, but I find the difficult thing with
cerinthe is to *stop* growing it. It self-seeds very readily.


Great, one less thing to bother about sowing next year.

But remember she's in Cornwall! Sasha in Devon finds they seld seed
easily too. In Leeds I find they self seed easily but the seedlings
don't survive the winter outside.

I love plants that
self seed. Even the millions of teasel seedlings that come up every year
haven't put me off. I actually LIKE weeding...

Oh, so do I! Seeing the plants at all stages of growth, and discovering
new plants all the time.

..the cerinthe are not doing
too well now though, since its got damp again. The slugs seem to like them




--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

In article , A.Malhotra
writes


Rodger Whitlock wrote:


I think your california poppies have a good chance of coming back
next year even if this year's performance is lousy.

I didn't think they were hardy enough to overwinter....it would be nice if
they did. Do you grow them as perennials were you are?

The occasional one has survived the winter here in Leeds - usually a
late seedling which hasn't yet flowered. But I couldn't rely on it and
would always treat them as annuals.
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

In article , A.Malhotra
writes


Kay Easton wrote:

In article , A.Malhotra
writes


The butterfly weed
also bit the dust...although it germinated well, one day I found all the
seedlings had the tips nibbled off: no culprit in sight, and all other
seedlings untouched. Any ideas?

Sounds like slugs. They tend to go for something they like and leave
neighbouring pots untouched.

I've never seen any slugs in the potting shed so i doubt it. I was
wondering about woodlice? or wasps? Both of which I have seen plenty of in
the shed.

I've never seen damage to plants from wasps or woodlice, and slugs are
damned good at hiding up during the day. It only takes one! They find
their way in in soil, on pots, or they just walk in through the door.

Too little light? It always happens to me. They sort themselves out
eventually.

We had to shade the glass because the light seemed too strong. We used an
old thin sheet. I suppose that might have cut the light too much. But even
the cerinthe that I potted up individually and put outside have stayed
floppy.

In that case, just regard it as an unexplained curiosity. I'm forever
proking out floppy straggly seedlings and they always turn into sturdy
enough plants.


Did you really prick out the nicotianas? I can never muster the patience
to do anything than divide the mass into 1 inch squares and plant those
out.

Yes.....although patience was definitely wearing thin by then. Your way,
does one seedling eventually take over in each clump?

Somewhere between one and 3 .. still has the appearance of one plant.

How big are they when
you plant them out?

I don't use any slug control in my garden, so I don't plant them out
till they're about 6 inches high. I always lose some to slugs, and about
a week after planting out it all looks hopeless, but I always end up
with enough big flowering plants.



My california poppies are also a bit of a disaster. I planted them out
about a month ago, since when they appear to have shrunk if anything! They
are in dryish soil, in a part of the garden that is a suntrap when the sun
is on it but doesn't get sun the whole day. What's wrong with this?

That *sounds* OK. But I find they grow well on my wet clay, so maybe
they do need somewhere damper? I don't know.

Ah...I assumed that they'd like somewhere hot and dry being from
California. But if they like damp, they should be perking up after the last
week's rain....

I think they *might* be a meadow plant. Californian friend of mine
brought me over a packet of 'mixed wildflowers' which turned out to have
a high proportion of californian poppies. Picture on the front of the
packet was a flowery meadow.

Agreed, the grey leaves are usually a sun defence. But the plant is
quite floppy, but capable of growing to a foot high, which sounds more
like something in a reasonably lush meadow rather than something on a
well drained scree, for example.

I suppose I ought to go and look it up! ;-)
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:03:02 +0100, A.Malhotra wrote:

Rodger Whitlock wrote:

I think your california poppies have a good chance of coming back
next year even if this year's performance is lousy.

I didn't think they were hardy enough to overwinter....it would be nice if
they did. Do you grow them as perennials were you are?

Short-lived perennials. They especially like dry sunny banks
where they bake in the summer. At this time of year, their native
haunts in California are not (100F and up) and dry as a bone.

Give them hard living and they will overwinter better than if
gorged on water and fertilizer.

--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada