We are building a large patio area in our garden and two elements are going
to be a 12 foot (approx) circle and a 9 foot circle. We have purchased two
pallets of clay cobbles manufactured by Marshalls, coloured Shelbourne red.
These cobbles are supplied in sets of 8 moulded together which need to be
split by hand (or more importantly by hammer and large chisel) and I
therefore have a three foot high pile of many thousands of these little
monsters (all slightly different but pretty much like 2.5 inch cubes) all
waiting to be laid. We have excavated and flattened a large enough area and
have laid a 2 to 3 inch base of hardcore in the shapes required. I have
then laid a one to two inch carpet of rough sand as the base on top of the
hardcore.



And now is when I am seeking important advice.What do I do next?



1) Should I start at the middle and just do one ring at a time? Maybe
starting with a large plate as a template for the middle. Or should I start
at the outside and work into the middle?

2) Should I lay all the cobbles before using a vibration plate to level
these? Or should I lay a small section at a time and use the plate a little
bit at a time?

3) Will the cobbles sink down by much when the plate has been used?

4) Do I need to use a special light vibration plate? I'm worried about
crushing the cobbles.

5) How do I secure the outside rows of cobbles so that they don't move?
Do I need to cement or concrete these in? If I cement them in, and work
from the outside in, do I therefore need to lay the inside cobbles an inch
higher to compensate for the lowering caused by the vibration plate?



I would appreciate any advice or insight you can offer.

Thanks

Nigel

"Nigel at home" wrote in message
...
We are building a large patio area in our garden and two elements
are going
to be a 12 foot (approx) circle and a 9 foot circle. We have
purchased two
pallets of clay cobbles manufactured by Marshalls, coloured
Shelbourne red.
These cobbles are supplied in sets of 8 moulded together which need
to be
split by hand (or more importantly by hammer and large chisel) and I
therefore have a three foot high pile of many thousands of these
little
monsters (all slightly different but pretty much like 2.5 inch
cubes) all
waiting to be laid. We have excavated and flattened a large enough
area and
have laid a 2 to 3 inch base of hardcore in the shapes required. I
have
then laid a one to two inch carpet of rough sand as the base on top
of the
hardcore.



And now is when I am seeking important advice.What do I do next?



1) Should I start at the middle and just do one ring at a time?
Maybe
starting with a large plate as a template for the middle. Or should
I start
at the outside and work into the middle?

2) Should I lay all the cobbles before using a vibration plate
to level
these? Or should I lay a small section at a time and use the plate
a little
bit at a time?

3) Will the cobbles sink down by much when the plate has been
used?

4) Do I need to use a special light vibration plate? I'm
worried about
crushing the cobbles.

5) How do I secure the outside rows of cobbles so that they
don't move?
Do I need to cement or concrete these in? If I cement them in, and
work
from the outside in, do I therefore need to lay the inside cobbles
an inch
higher to compensate for the lowering caused by the vibration plate?

I would appreciate any advice or insight you can offer.
Thanks Nigel

I can't help you but Cormaics excellent site will :
http://www.pavingexpert.com/index.htm

Jenny :~)

"JennyC" wrote in message ...
"Nigel at home" wrote in message
...
We are building a large patio area in our garden and two elements
are going
to be a 12 foot (approx) circle and a 9 foot circle. We have
purchased two
pallets of clay cobbles manufactured by Marshalls, coloured
Shelbourne red.
These cobbles are supplied in sets of 8 moulded together which need
to be
split by hand (or more importantly by hammer and large chisel) and I
therefore have a three foot high pile of many thousands of these
little
monsters (all slightly different but pretty much like 2.5 inch
cubes) all
waiting to be laid. We have excavated and flattened a large enough
area and
have laid a 2 to 3 inch base of hardcore in the shapes required. I
have
then laid a one to two inch carpet of rough sand as the base on top
of the
hardcore.



And now is when I am seeking important advice.What do I do next?



1) Should I start at the middle and just do one ring at a time?
Maybe
starting with a large plate as a template for the middle. Or should
I start
at the outside and work into the middle?

2) Should I lay all the cobbles before using a vibration plate
to level
these? Or should I lay a small section at a time and use the plate
a little
bit at a time?

3) Will the cobbles sink down by much when the plate has been
used?

4) Do I need to use a special light vibration plate? I'm
worried about
crushing the cobbles.

5) How do I secure the outside rows of cobbles so that they
don't move?
Do I need to cement or concrete these in? If I cement them in, and
work
from the outside in, do I therefore need to lay the inside cobbles
an inch
higher to compensate for the lowering caused by the vibration plate?

I would appreciate any advice or insight you can offer.
Thanks Nigel

I can't help you but Cormaics excellent site will :
http://www.pavingexpert.com/index.htm

A helpful site. Your own manufacturer has a good one, too: it also has
some design ideas:
http://home.marshalls.co.uk/helpadvi...ock_paving.asp

I'd lay outward from the middle. Apart from anything else, that way it
won't matter if you run out of cobbles!

The centrepiece offers scope for a lot of fun. You can just buy a
circular slab; or install one of those recessed lamps you can walk on;
set an old stone jar in upside-down; lay round a former such as a
paint-tin, then replace the tin with sand-and-cement finished off with
a pattern of pebbles from your favourite beach; you'll have more
ideas, I'm sure. On tv a while ago I saw an attractive one made with a
nest of terracotta flower-pots levelled up with sand or
sand-and-cement: I imagine there was a pebble in the middle, but can't
remember. Maybe somebody in the family goes to pottery classes. I'm
itching to use a gun-plug, or whatever the proper name is, I've got
from HMS Glasgow: a chunky brass thing, with the ship's badge on it.

If you use terracotta or anything absorbent, I'd suggest drenching it
all round in masonry waterproofing solution before laying: that way
you should avoid frost damage.

It's impossible to say how far your paving will sink, but I'd compact
the bed before laying the cobbles, and then they'll only sink by as
much as the sand layer is compressed when you run the whacker over the
finished paving. I'd ask the hire firm for advice if there's a choice
of which whacker to use; and I'd do the whole thing in one go rather
than in bits -- if you do it a bit at a time the edges will go
skew-whiff.

Subject to better ideas from somebody else, I'd say the best way to
ensure a good edge is to lay a ring of bricks outside your finished
circle. If there's any slip, then the bricks will do most of it, which
won't matter as you're taking them away anyhow. I'd lay at least the
outer three rings in dry-mix rather than sand; get the whole thing as
level as you want it, damp it off, then forget about it for a few
days. After that, the bricks should come away with or without a gentle
tap.

But, on the other hand, you may find that it actually looks better
with the bricks round it to define the edge. On the principle that
bigger is usually better, I'd be inclined to lay permanent bricks
radially rather than circumferentially, if that makes sense.

It'll look lovely; but my old back and knees are aching just thinking
about it!

Mike.

"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
om...
"JennyC" wrote in message
...
"Nigel at home" wrote in message
...
We are building a large patio area in our garden and two elements
are going
to be a 12 foot (approx) circle and a 9 foot circle. We have
purchased two
pallets of clay cobbles manufactured by Marshalls, coloured
Shelbourne red.
These cobbles are supplied in sets of 8 moulded together which need
to be
split by hand (or more importantly by hammer and large chisel) and I
therefore have a three foot high pile of many thousands of these
little
monsters (all slightly different but pretty much like 2.5 inch
cubes) all
waiting to be laid. We have excavated and flattened a large enough
area and
have laid a 2 to 3 inch base of hardcore in the shapes required. I
have
then laid a one to two inch carpet of rough sand as the base on top
of the
hardcore.



And now is when I am seeking important advice.What do I do next?



1) Should I start at the middle and just do one ring at a time?
Maybe
starting with a large plate as a template for the middle. Or should
I start
at the outside and work into the middle?

2) Should I lay all the cobbles before using a vibration plate
to level
these? Or should I lay a small section at a time and use the plate
a little
bit at a time?

3) Will the cobbles sink down by much when the plate has been
used?

4) Do I need to use a special light vibration plate? I'm
worried about
crushing the cobbles.

5) How do I secure the outside rows of cobbles so that they
don't move?
Do I need to cement or concrete these in? If I cement them in, and
work
from the outside in, do I therefore need to lay the inside cobbles
an inch
higher to compensate for the lowering caused by the vibration plate?

I would appreciate any advice or insight you can offer.
Thanks Nigel

I can't help you but Cormaics excellent site will :
http://www.pavingexpert.com/index.htm

A helpful site. Your own manufacturer has a good one, too: it also has
some design ideas:
http://home.marshalls.co.uk/helpadvi...ock_paving.asp

I'd lay outward from the middle. Apart from anything else, that way it
won't matter if you run out of cobbles!

The centrepiece offers scope for a lot of fun. You can just buy a
circular slab; or install one of those recessed lamps you can walk on;
set an old stone jar in upside-down; lay round a former such as a
paint-tin, then replace the tin with sand-and-cement finished off with
a pattern of pebbles from your favourite beach; you'll have more
ideas, I'm sure. On tv a while ago I saw an attractive one made with a
nest of terracotta flower-pots levelled up with sand or
sand-and-cement: I imagine there was a pebble in the middle, but can't
remember. Maybe somebody in the family goes to pottery classes. I'm
itching to use a gun-plug, or whatever the proper name is, I've got
from HMS Glasgow: a chunky brass thing, with the ship's badge on it.

If you use terracotta or anything absorbent, I'd suggest drenching it
all round in masonry waterproofing solution before laying: that way
you should avoid frost damage.

It's impossible to say how far your paving will sink, but I'd compact
the bed before laying the cobbles, and then they'll only sink by as
much as the sand layer is compressed when you run the whacker over the
finished paving. I'd ask the hire firm for advice if there's a choice
of which whacker to use; and I'd do the whole thing in one go rather
than in bits -- if you do it a bit at a time the edges will go
skew-whiff.

Subject to better ideas from somebody else, I'd say the best way to
ensure a good edge is to lay a ring of bricks outside your finished
circle. If there's any slip, then the bricks will do most of it, which
won't matter as you're taking them away anyhow. I'd lay at least the
outer three rings in dry-mix rather than sand; get the whole thing as
level as you want it, damp it off, then forget about it for a few
days. After that, the bricks should come away with or without a gentle
tap.

But, on the other hand, you may find that it actually looks better
with the bricks round it to define the edge. On the principle that
bigger is usually better, I'd be inclined to lay permanent bricks
radially rather than circumferentially, if that makes sense.

It'll look lovely; but my old back and knees are aching just thinking
about it!

Mike.

thanks for the suggestions Mike. I might use the idea of a light to walk
over as last weeks job was digging a 20 yard trench across the lawn so that
I could insert an armoured cable to supply electricity down to the patio.
Laying bricks temporarily to provide a solid edge is also a good idea and as
I've got about 7000 cobbles left, I could risk working from the outside in
as I won't run out of stones.

Thanks

Nigel