ive got a patch of lawn that i want to make into a veg plot so i am looking
for web sites that will give me hints tips and ways of going about things to
get the best out of it...it is about 12 ft square and the soil under the
lawn is stony and looks very dry and dusty

In article , graham graham@campbell3
185.REMOVETHIS.freeserve.co.uk writes
ive got a patch of lawn that i want to make into a veg plot so i am looking
for web sites that will give me hints tips and ways of going about things to
get the best out of it...it is about 12 ft square and the soil under the
lawn is stony and looks very dry and dusty

You could make a start by taking the turf from the area and stacking it
to begin composting. Then dress the soil with well matured stable or
farmyard manure and let that bio-degrade into the surface over the
coming winter. Don't make potatoes your first crop in fresh ground, but
you could begin with some cabbages, onions, beans and salad goods.

You may find some useful information in the urg FAQ on vegetables at:
http://www.fuchsiazone.co.uk/veg-index/vegindex.htm
[Not as listed in the urg FAQ list]
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

I was interested in Alan's reply as I want to extend my existing veg plot -
taking up some of my lawn. I had assumed that potatoes would be the right
crop to begin with - having always understood that potatoes were good at
breaking up the soil.

Jeanne Stockdale
"Alan Gould" wrote in message
news
In article , graham graham@campbell3
185.REMOVETHIS.freeserve.co.uk writes
ive got a patch of lawn that i want to make into a veg plot so i am
looking
for web sites that will give me hints tips and ways of going about things
to
get the best out of it...it is about 12 ft square and the soil under the
lawn is stony and looks very dry and dusty

You could make a start by taking the turf from the area and stacking it
to begin composting. Then dress the soil with well matured stable or
farmyard manure and let that bio-degrade into the surface over the
coming winter. Don't make potatoes your first crop in fresh ground, but
you could begin with some cabbages, onions, beans and salad goods.

You may find some useful information in the urg FAQ on vegetables at:
http://www.fuchsiazone.co.uk/veg-index/vegindex.htm
[Not as listed in the urg FAQ list]
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

In article , Jeanne Stockdale
writes
I was interested in Alan's reply as I want to extend my existing veg plot -
taking up some of my lawn. I had assumed that potatoes would be the right
crop to begin with - having always understood that potatoes were good at
breaking up the soil.

Potatoes grown in soil which has been down to lawn or not veg. cropped
for some time can often be attacked by wireworm, which is why they are
better left to follow a different crop.

After a potato crop has been lifted, the soil where they were grown will
be thoroughly broken up. Only a small part of that work will have been
done by growth of the tubers, the rest of it is done by the gardener
when preparing the rows. when planting, when earthing up the plants and
when cropping the harvest. In new soil it is much easier to prepare a
bed for a crop requiring less depth, then follow on with potatoes with
half the cultivation already having been done.
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

Hello Graham,

Yes, I totally agree that it is all about getting that plot into good physical shape for next year. I don't think at 12' square you will be growing many potatoes if you also want to grow other crops.

It is true that traditionally a potatoe crop is used to break up the land by way of cultural avtivities as already described.

My advice would be to forget any crops for the rest of this year and just concentrate on incorporating as much organic matter as you can lay your hands on....in the form of garden compost and well rotted farm and stable animal manures (not pig). It is going to be hard at first but you need to break up that compacted ground to a reasonable depth in order to grow a variety of vege.

Stacking the turf is a good way of gaining some loam and roughage for container growing and also when sieved and preferably sterilised, a good potting compost base.

However, a preferable alternative in my view would be to double dig your new vege plot, chop the turf up and incorporate it into the second spit.

Keep a shallow trench open across the plot and empty all your degradable kitchen waste into it as it becomes available, covering over each time with polythene or if in sufficient quantity back fill over with soil. You will be surprised how quickly this will incorporate into the soil. Never use kitchen waste in the form of animal products though or you will attract vermin.

I once did this over a period of 12months on a very small plot -6'x10'and ended up with the blackest and most organic soil you coud imagine.

Peter.

In article ,
(Alan Gould) wrote:

Potatoes grown in soil which has been down to lawn or not veg. cropped
for some time can often be attacked by wireworm

I believe most underground crops run this risk?

Steve Harris - Cheltenham - Real address steve AT netservs DOT com

In article , Steve
Harris writes
In article ,
(Alan Gould) wrote:

Potatoes grown in soil which has been down to lawn or not veg. cropped
for some time can often be attacked by wireworm

I believe most underground crops run this risk?

Quite possibly, though I would think that any tuberous or soft rooted
crops like potatoes and carrots would be more vulnerable to worm damage
than tougher brassica roots like swede, turnip, kohl rabi etc.
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

"Alan Gould" wrote in message
...
In article , Steve
Harris writes
In article ,
(Alan Gould) wrote:

Potatoes grown in soil which has been down to lawn or not veg. cropped
for some time can often be attacked by wireworm

I believe most underground crops run this risk?

Quite possibly, though I would think that any tuberous or soft rooted
crops like potatoes and carrots would be more vulnerable to worm damage
than tougher brassica roots like swede, turnip, kohl rabi etc.
-- Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

Having started a veg plot on newly cultivated ground that was absolutely
infested with wireworms of all ages and click beetles (the parents) let me
tell you if you have them they will attack anything at all, including pea
seeds. I managed the problem by firstly letting the chickens in over winter,
but I still had hundreds and hundreds by spring. I grew all the cabbages
from seed in peat pots and this I think helped to guard against the
wireworms doing damage to the roots whilst they were still tender and young.
Before planting the beds I set 'traps'. Old potatoes cut into thick discs
and skewered onto pieces of wire, then placed in the ground, I took them up
and replaced them every three days for about three weeks and gathered all
the worms as a treat for my chickens, I literally got hundreds of them this
way (time consuming, but worth the effort). The carrotts were not badly
affected though I did take them out at finger size, I notice some damage to
the swedes in the ground at the moment, I see the damage round the top, but
hopefully I'll be able to cut round the damage and use whats left, if not
there's always next year. Kale, lettuce, onions, corn, sprouts, cabbage,
cauli, peas (lost a few seeds) spring onions, strawberries, blackcurrants,
parsnips (taken out early due to a rampaging foal) were all mostly
unaffected. My potato crop was outside the actual plot and I hadn't laid any
traps nor let the chucks do their work and I managed to reap about a third
of the crop, the rest were absolutely crawling. It is said the lifecycle
takes about four years from start of cultivation to the complete eradication
of the worm so I've another three years left to deal with them, but I think
there'll be a lot less in the coming years because of the work done in year
one. The traps are certainly a help and I'll be using them again next spring
too.

HTH
Shannie

"Alan Gould" wrote in message
...
In article , Steve
Harris writes
In article ,
(Alan Gould) wrote:

Potatoes grown in soil which has been down to lawn or not veg. cropped
for some time can often be attacked by wireworm

I believe most underground crops run this risk?

Quite possibly, though I would think that any tuberous or soft rooted
crops like potatoes and carrots would be more vulnerable to worm damage
than tougher brassica roots like swede, turnip, kohl rabi etc.
-- Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

Having started a veg plot on newly cultivated ground that was absolutely
infested with wireworms of all ages and click beetles (the parents) let me
tell you if you have them they will attack anything at all, including pea
seeds. I managed the problem by firstly letting the chickens in over winter,
but I still had hundreds and hundreds by spring. I grew all the cabbages
from seed in peat pots and this I think helped to guard against the
wireworms doing damage to the roots whilst they were still tender and young.
Before planting the beds I set 'traps'. Old potatoes cut into thick discs
and skewered onto pieces of wire, then placed in the ground, I took them up
and replaced them every three days for about three weeks and gathered all
the worms as a treat for my chickens, I literally got hundreds of them this
way (time consuming, but worth the effort). The carrotts were not badly
affected though I did take them out at finger size, I notice some damage to
the swedes in the ground at the moment, I see the damage round the top, but
hopefully I'll be able to cut round the damage and use whats left, if not
there's always next year. Kale, lettuce, onions, corn, sprouts, cabbage,
cauli, peas (lost a few seeds) spring onions, strawberries, blackcurrants,
parsnips (taken out early due to a rampaging foal) were all mostly
unaffected. My potato crop was outside the actual plot and I hadn't laid any
traps nor let the chucks do their work and I managed to reap about a third
of the crop, the rest were absolutely crawling. It is said the lifecycle
takes about four years from start of cultivation to the complete eradication
of the worm so I've another three years left to deal with them, but I think
there'll be a lot less in the coming years because of the work done in year
one. The traps are certainly a help and I'll be using them again next spring
too.

HTH
Shannie

"Alan Gould" wrote in message
...
In article , Steve
Harris writes
In article ,
(Alan Gould) wrote:

Potatoes grown in soil which has been down to lawn or not veg. cropped
for some time can often be attacked by wireworm

I believe most underground crops run this risk?

Quite possibly, though I would think that any tuberous or soft rooted
crops like potatoes and carrots would be more vulnerable to worm damage
than tougher brassica roots like swede, turnip, kohl rabi etc.
-- Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

Having started a veg plot on newly cultivated ground that was absolutely
infested with wireworms of all ages and click beetles (the parents) let me
tell you if you have them they will attack anything at all, including pea
seeds. I managed the problem by firstly letting the chickens in over winter,
but I still had hundreds and hundreds by spring. I grew all the cabbages
from seed in peat pots and this I think helped to guard against the
wireworms doing damage to the roots whilst they were still tender and young.
Before planting the beds I set 'traps'. Old potatoes cut into thick discs
and skewered onto pieces of wire, then placed in the ground, I took them up
and replaced them every three days for about three weeks and gathered all
the worms as a treat for my chickens, I literally got hundreds of them this
way (time consuming, but worth the effort). The carrotts were not badly
affected though I did take them out at finger size, I notice some damage to
the swedes in the ground at the moment, I see the damage round the top, but
hopefully I'll be able to cut round the damage and use whats left, if not
there's always next year. Kale, lettuce, onions, corn, sprouts, cabbage,
cauli, peas (lost a few seeds) spring onions, strawberries, blackcurrants,
parsnips (taken out early due to a rampaging foal) were all mostly
unaffected. My potato crop was outside the actual plot and I hadn't laid any
traps nor let the chucks do their work and I managed to reap about a third
of the crop, the rest were absolutely crawling. It is said the lifecycle
takes about four years from start of cultivation to the complete eradication
of the worm so I've another three years left to deal with them, but I think
there'll be a lot less in the coming years because of the work done in year
one. The traps are certainly a help and I'll be using them again next spring
too.

HTH
Shannie

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 21:22:57 +0100, "graham"
wrote:

ive got a patch of lawn that i want to make into a veg plot so i am looking
for web sites that will give me hints tips and ways of going about things to
get the best out of it...it is about 12 ft square and the soil under the
lawn is stony and looks very dry and dusty

http://www.squarefootgardening.com/ might be useful to you.

Julie S