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Old 27-08-2003, 02:02 PM
Lynda Thornton
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oxygenators seem to be dying

Hi

I've had continual problems with my large barrel pond going stagnant
since I got it earlier in the summer - it stinks if bad egg to high
heaven a lot of the time and it is really spoiling the garden! I've got
one dwarf waterlily in it which is actually thriving well and putting
out lots of leaves and 2 irises in a medium-sized basket filled with
soil sitting near the top of the water level. I've tried adding several
bunches of Elodea Crispa which seemed to just sink and rot (I thought it
would have free-floated and been OK) and I kept having to fish out slimy
black stems which were obviously rotten and dead. The plant has now
disappeared completely. I then added some frogbit which a kind person
on this newsgroup sent me from their pond, and although it has thrived
and flowered in a plastic container which I also have filled with water,
it has not done well at all in the barrel and looks on its last legs,
going brownish and dwindling, with only a few small green leaves
struggling, so I might have to fish that out next. The water is very
murky, almost a greyish brown and you can't see anything below the
surface.

I can't understand what it is that is killing the plants - is there
anything else I can do as oxygenating plants don't seem to be working?
I am getting to the limits of my tolerance now as I just cannot stand
the smell (it was particularly awful in the hot weather). I assume the
winter temperatures won't do anything to curb the smell once things warm
up again?

I'm pretty sure the pond is not 'poisonous' as I found a lesser water
boatman in the net I was using to fish out mosquito larvae the other day
- gave me a shock I can tell you! It leapt back into the water and
dived right down so it must be OK in there.

My husband is getting so sick of it that he wants us to drain it, but I
want to try a bit more before we reach that stage, and of course I'd
have to re-home the water lily.

Can anyone suggest anything else I can try?

Thanks

Lynda


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Old 27-08-2003, 03:22 PM
Iain Miller
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oxygenators seem to be dying


"Lynda Thornton" wrote in message
...
Hi

I've had continual problems with my large barrel pond going stagnant
since I got it earlier in the summer - it stinks if bad egg to high
heaven a lot of the time and it is really spoiling the garden!


Its gone "Anaerobic" & there are bacteria in there giving off Hydrogen
Sulphide. The water would be pretty poisonous to fish. The problem is that
the water is dead and starved of oxygen - you need to find a way to get it
to circulate. Easy options would be to drop a small pump in the bottom that
just pumps water from bottom to the top or alternatively an Airpump to
inject airbubbles into the bottom of the water - as they rise they will
circulate the water. A small aquarium powerhead (10-15) or a small pump
designed for water features would be enough. If you wanted to go the Airpump
route then this would cost about the same but you'd have to find a way to
keep the airpump itself dry. If you can't get power to the thing then maybe
you could look at one of those solar powerd pumps.

Circulating the water a bit should cure the problem - you get oxygen
exchange at the surface. Once the water has some oxygen in it then the
Anaerobic bacteria will die back & also you will get other bacteria growing
that will break down rotting material (without stinking!) - but these will
only survive in water that is oxygenated.

Having lots of plants can help (in theory) but there is a balance because
although plants give off oxygen during the day, they actually take it in at
night so in some cases plant's growing too fast can actually cause a problem
themselves - particularly for fish which can suffocate overnight in some
circumstances.

rgds

I.



  #3   Report Post  
Old 27-08-2003, 03:32 PM
Ron Clark
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oxygenators seem to be dying

On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:54:05 +0000 (UTC), Lynda Thornton
wrote:

Hi

I've had continual problems with my large barrel pond going stagnant
since I got it earlier in the summer - it stinks if bad egg to high
heaven a lot of the time and it is really spoiling the garden! I've got
one dwarf waterlily in it which is actually thriving well and putting
out lots of leaves and 2 irises in a medium-sized basket filled with
soil sitting near the top of the water level


You could get Herr Blix to have a look at it.


--

  #4   Report Post  
Old 28-08-2003, 09:42 AM
Lynda Thornton
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oxygenators seem to be dying

In article , Iain
Miller writes

"Lynda Thornton" wrote in message
...
Hi

I've had continual problems with my large barrel pond going stagnant
since I got it earlier in the summer - it stinks if bad egg to high
heaven a lot of the time and it is really spoiling the garden!


Its gone "Anaerobic" & there are bacteria in there giving off Hydrogen
Sulphide. The water would be pretty poisonous to fish. The problem is that
the water is dead and starved of oxygen - you need to find a way to get it
to circulate. Easy options would be to drop a small pump in the bottom that
just pumps water from bottom to the top or alternatively an Airpump to
inject airbubbles into the bottom of the water - as they rise they will
circulate the water. A small aquarium powerhead (10-15) or a small pump
designed for water features would be enough. If you wanted to go the Airpump
route then this would cost about the same but you'd have to find a way to
keep the airpump itself dry. If you can't get power to the thing then maybe
you could look at one of those solar powerd pumps.


Hi

Thanks for responding.

The problem with pumps in the barrel is the water lily - I thought they
didn't like constantly moving water and needed it still most of the
time? I know that circulating the water helps because I have a smaller
barrel with a solar fountain in it which doesn't smell at all and I've
had it since early last year.

Circulating the water a bit should cure the problem - you get oxygen
exchange at the surface. Once the water has some oxygen in it then the
Anaerobic bacteria will die back & also you will get other bacteria growing
that will break down rotting material (without stinking!) - but these will
only survive in water that is oxygenated.



Having lots of plants can help (in theory) but there is a balance because
although plants give off oxygen during the day, they actually take it in at
night so in some cases plant's growing too fast can actually cause a problem
themselves - particularly for fish which can suffocate overnight in some
circumstances.


I have no plans to keep fish in it anyway so that's not a problem but I
think the oxygenating plants aren't going to survive for long from what
you're saying here. I guess I'll have to consider either some form of
pump which doesn't disturb the water too much or abandon it?

Lynda

  #5   Report Post  
Old 28-08-2003, 11:03 AM
Iain Miller
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oxygenators seem to be dying



I have no plans to keep fish in it anyway so that's not a problem but I
think the oxygenating plants aren't going to survive for long from what
you're saying here. I guess I'll have to consider either some form of
pump which doesn't disturb the water too much or abandon it?


It really won't need to be a very big pump. you just need to move the water
from the bottom of the barrel to the top. As I suggested something like an
aquarium power head would do - most of those can be valved down to limit the
flow. Suggest you put some kind of big sponge over the intake so it doesn't
clog up too quickly. Your best bet is probably to take everything out the
barrel & get rid of the debris & then re-assemble. Another option would be
to mount the pump near the surface and shoot the water to the bottom - the
effect will be the same - you just need to keep it moving.

I.




  #6   Report Post  
Old 28-08-2003, 05:12 PM
Tumbleweed
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oxygenators seem to be dying

Xref: kermit uk.rec.gardening:162346

"Lynda Thornton" wrote in message
...
In article , Iain
Miller writes

"Lynda Thornton" wrote in message
...
Hi

I've had continual problems with my large barrel pond going stagnant
since I got it earlier in the summer - it stinks if bad egg to high
heaven a lot of the time and it is really spoiling the garden!


Its gone "Anaerobic" & there are bacteria in there giving off Hydrogen
Sulphide. The water would be pretty poisonous to fish. The problem is

that
the water is dead and starved of oxygen - you need to find a way to get

it
to circulate. Easy options would be to drop a small pump in the bottom

that
just pumps water from bottom to the top or alternatively an Airpump to
inject airbubbles into the bottom of the water - as they rise they will
circulate the water. A small aquarium powerhead (10-15) or a small

pump
designed for water features would be enough. If you wanted to go the

Airpump
route then this would cost about the same but you'd have to find a way to
keep the airpump itself dry. If you can't get power to the thing then

maybe
you could look at one of those solar powerd pumps.


Hi

Thanks for responding.

The problem with pumps in the barrel is the water lily - I thought they
didn't like constantly moving water and needed it still most of the
time? I know that circulating the water helps because I have a smaller
barrel with a solar fountain in it which doesn't smell at all and I've
had it since early last year.

Circulating the water a bit should cure the problem - you get oxygen
exchange at the surface. Once the water has some oxygen in it then the
Anaerobic bacteria will die back & also you will get other bacteria

growing
that will break down rotting material (without stinking!) - but these

will
only survive in water that is oxygenated.



Having lots of plants can help (in theory) but there is a balance because
although plants give off oxygen during the day, they actually take it in

at
night so in some cases plant's growing too fast can actually cause a

problem
themselves - particularly for fish which can suffocate overnight in some
circumstances.


I have no plans to keep fish in it anyway so that's not a problem but I
think the oxygenating plants aren't going to survive for long from what
you're saying here. I guess I'll have to consider either some form of
pump which doesn't disturb the water too much or abandon it?

Lynda


A little bit of water circulation won't be an issue, I have a reasonable
amount of water movement in my pond and soem very healthy lillies. If I were
you, and you do install a pump / air pump (an air pump will also give water
circulation), I'd start by cleaning the whole thing out just to give a good
start rather than trying to fix the problem you have got now.

FWIW air pumps can be a bit noisy, while you wont be able to hear a small
pump in the water at all. Try and get something for a home aquarium that has
the ability to vary the output, a pond pump will probably be too powerful
though you can probably kludge this with a bit of plastic tubing niftly
directed anyway.

Finally, given the time of year, I'd start again next spring anway, since
there is probably only another 6 weeks or so of lily growing left.

Finally finally, you could probably get by until then by just refilling the
barrel with clean water, that will give the lily soemthing better than
rotting gunge to overwinter in.

--
Tumbleweed

Remove theobvious before replying (but no email reply necessary to
newsgroups)




  #7   Report Post  
Old 28-08-2003, 08:22 PM
Franz Heymann
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oxygenators seem to be dying


"Tumbleweed" wrote in message
. ..
"Lynda Thornton" wrote in message
...
In article , Iain
Miller writes

"Lynda Thornton" wrote in message
...
Hi

I've had continual problems with my large barrel pond going stagnant
since I got it earlier in the summer - it stinks if bad egg to high
heaven a lot of the time and it is really spoiling the garden!

Its gone "Anaerobic" & there are bacteria in there giving off Hydrogen
Sulphide. The water would be pretty poisonous to fish. The problem is

that
the water is dead and starved of oxygen - you need to find a way to get

it
to circulate. Easy options would be to drop a small pump in the bottom

that
just pumps water from bottom to the top or alternatively an Airpump to
inject airbubbles into the bottom of the water - as they rise they will
circulate the water. A small aquarium powerhead (10-15) or a small

pump
designed for water features would be enough. If you wanted to go the

Airpump
route then this would cost about the same but you'd have to find a way

to
keep the airpump itself dry. If you can't get power to the thing then

maybe
you could look at one of those solar powerd pumps.


Hi

Thanks for responding.

The problem with pumps in the barrel is the water lily - I thought they
didn't like constantly moving water and needed it still most of the
time? I know that circulating the water helps because I have a smaller
barrel with a solar fountain in it which doesn't smell at all and I've
had it since early last year.

Circulating the water a bit should cure the problem - you get oxygen
exchange at the surface. Once the water has some oxygen in it then the
Anaerobic bacteria will die back & also you will get other bacteria

growing
that will break down rotting material (without stinking!) - but these

will
only survive in water that is oxygenated.



Having lots of plants can help (in theory) but there is a balance

because
although plants give off oxygen during the day, they actually take it

in
at
night so in some cases plant's growing too fast can actually cause a

problem
themselves - particularly for fish which can suffocate overnight in

some
circumstances.


I have no plans to keep fish in it anyway so that's not a problem but I
think the oxygenating plants aren't going to survive for long from what
you're saying here. I guess I'll have to consider either some form of
pump which doesn't disturb the water too much or abandon it?

Lynda


A little bit of water circulation won't be an issue, I have a reasonable
amount of water movement in my pond and soem very healthy lillies. If I

were
you, and you do install a pump / air pump (an air pump will also give

water
circulation), I'd start by cleaning the whole thing out just to give a

good
start rather than trying to fix the problem you have got now.

FWIW air pumps can be a bit noisy, while you wont be able to hear a small
pump in the water at all. Try and get something for a home aquarium that

has
the ability to vary the output, a pond pump will probably be too powerful
though you can probably kludge this with a bit of plastic tubing niftly
directed anyway.

Finally, given the time of year, I'd start again next spring anway, since
there is probably only another 6 weeks or so of lily growing left.

Finally finally, you could probably get by until then by just refilling

the
barrel with clean water, that will give the lily soemthing better than
rotting gunge to overwinter in.


Surely the most straightforward way of coping is to simply replace a quarter
or so of the water daily until the problem disappears?

Franz


  #8   Report Post  
Old 28-08-2003, 11:33 PM
Tumbleweed
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oxygenators seem to be dying

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

snip

Finally finally, you could probably get by until then by just refilling
the
barrel with clean water, that will give the lily something better than
rotting gunge to overwinter in.


Surely the most straightforward way of coping is to simply replace a

quarter
or so of the water daily until the problem disappears?

Franz

Dont forget there are no fish. I doubt the lily would care whether the water
was 25% changed or all in one go,and you'd also be sure to get all the
rotting gunge at the bottom which a water change wouldnt necessarily touch
and which appears to be the root of the problem.

--
Tumbleweed

Remove theobvious before replying (but no email reply necessary to
newsgroups)




  #9   Report Post  
Old 29-08-2003, 08:32 AM
Franz Heymann
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oxygenators seem to be dying


"Tumbleweed" wrote in message
. ..
"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

snip

Finally finally, you could probably get by until then by just

refilling
the
barrel with clean water, that will give the lily something better than
rotting gunge to overwinter in.


Surely the most straightforward way of coping is to simply replace a

quarter
or so of the water daily until the problem disappears?

Franz

Dont forget there are no fish. I doubt the lily would care whether the

water
was 25% changed or all in one go,and you'd also be sure to get all the
rotting gunge at the bottom which a water change wouldnt necessarily touch
and which appears to be the root of the problem.

--
Tumbleweed

Remove theobvious before replying (but no email reply necessary to
newsgroups)






  #10   Report Post  
Old 29-08-2003, 08:32 AM
Franz Heymann
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oxygenators seem to be dying


"Tumbleweed" wrote in message
. ..
"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

snip

Finally finally, you could probably get by until then by just

refilling
the
barrel with clean water, that will give the lily something better than
rotting gunge to overwinter in.


Surely the most straightforward way of coping is to simply replace a

quarter
or so of the water daily until the problem disappears?

Franz

Dont forget there are no fish. I doubt the lily would care whether the

water
was 25% changed or all in one go,and you'd also be sure to get all the
rotting gunge at the bottom which a water change wouldnt necessarily touch
and which appears to be the root of the problem.

But surely one would scrape up any excesive amount of rotting stuff by hand
as a first step towards clearing up the barrel?

Franz





  #11   Report Post  
Old 29-08-2003, 07:32 PM
Tumbleweed
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oxygenators seem to be dying


"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Tumbleweed" wrote in message
. ..
"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

snip

Finally finally, you could probably get by until then by just

refilling
the
barrel with clean water, that will give the lily something better

than
rotting gunge to overwinter in.

Surely the most straightforward way of coping is to simply replace a

quarter
or so of the water daily until the problem disappears?

Franz

Dont forget there are no fish. I doubt the lily would care whether the

water
was 25% changed or all in one go,and you'd also be sure to get all the
rotting gunge at the bottom which a water change wouldnt necessarily

touch
and which appears to be the root of the problem.

But surely one would scrape up any excesive amount of rotting stuff by

hand
as a first step towards clearing up the barrel?

Franz



Indeed, but it was you who advised 'simply' a 25% water change and no
mention of removing gunge.....
Besides which to remove the gunge, probably the simplest way is it to take
out the lily and then just wash the whole barrel out. Otherwise you'll stir
up the gunge and create a mess which will stay there if you only change 25%
of the water.

Tw


  #12   Report Post  
Old 29-08-2003, 08:12 PM
Franz Heymann
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oxygenators seem to be dying


"Tumbleweed" wrote in message
. ..

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Tumbleweed" wrote in message
. ..
"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

snip

Finally finally, you could probably get by until then by just

refilling
the
barrel with clean water, that will give the lily something better

than
rotting gunge to overwinter in.

Surely the most straightforward way of coping is to simply replace a
quarter
or so of the water daily until the problem disappears?

Franz

Dont forget there are no fish. I doubt the lily would care whether the

water
was 25% changed or all in one go,and you'd also be sure to get all the
rotting gunge at the bottom which a water change wouldnt necessarily

touch
and which appears to be the root of the problem.

But surely one would scrape up any excesive amount of rotting stuff by

hand
as a first step towards clearing up the barrel?


Indeed, but it was you who advised 'simply' a 25% water change and no
mention of removing gunge.....


My fault for being too brief........

Besides which to remove the gunge, probably the simplest way is it to take
out the lily and then just wash the whole barrel out. Otherwise you'll

stir
up the gunge and create a mess which will stay there if you only change

25%
of the water.


Actually, when all's said and done, that is obviously the answer.

Franz


  #13   Report Post  
Old 30-08-2003, 06:32 PM
Lynda Thornton
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oxygenators seem to be dying

In article , Franz Heymann notfranz.
writes

"Tumbleweed" wrote in message
...

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Tumbleweed" wrote in message
. ..
"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

snip

Finally finally, you could probably get by until then by just
refilling
the
barrel with clean water, that will give the lily something better

than
rotting gunge to overwinter in.

Surely the most straightforward way of coping is to simply replace a
quarter
or so of the water daily until the problem disappears?

Franz

Dont forget there are no fish. I doubt the lily would care whether the
water
was 25% changed or all in one go,and you'd also be sure to get all the
rotting gunge at the bottom which a water change wouldnt necessarily

touch
and which appears to be the root of the problem.

But surely one would scrape up any excesive amount of rotting stuff by

hand
as a first step towards clearing up the barrel?


Indeed, but it was you who advised 'simply' a 25% water change and no
mention of removing gunge.....


My fault for being too brief........

Besides which to remove the gunge, probably the simplest way is it to take
out the lily and then just wash the whole barrel out. Otherwise you'll

stir
up the gunge and create a mess which will stay there if you only change

25%
of the water.


Actually, when all's said and done, that is obviously the answer.

Franz


Re completely emptying the barrel, there is pondlife at the bottom
including at least one lesser water boatman - what should I do with
that, and possibly others, if I empty everything out?

It's also not that easy to empty the thing to be quite honest, it's an
enormous wooden barrel 3ft diameter/high, weighs a ton and there's no
way I could tip it with even a small amount of water in it. Also, it's
on gravel, so it could make quite a mess if gunge etc splashes out all
over during cleaning. I'm not feeling like going through all this as
I'm sure lots of you can guess!

Also, in response to someone's comment, I hadn't realised that water
lilies were regarded as annuals, even in this climate - I thought that
once established they would come back every year? I certainly wouldn't
want to have to fork out every spring for one season's growth and a few
flowers!!

I really don't want to go down the electric pump route - there's no easy
way of hooking it up to a power supply or laying cable. I was hoping
there might be a solar option, ie a solar panel with a submergible pump
attached which could sit at the bottom and hopefully not disturb the
water too much, but in such a small barrel I suppose it would be likely
to be too turbulent and extremely costly as I can't find this kind of
thing on the web. Maybe the only answer is to get rid of the water
lily, even though this was what I really wanted in the barrel in the
first place, so that I can put my floating solar fountain on it next
summer and re-oxygenate the water that way. It's just a shame and I
really would have liked a water lily feature in the garden, but I'd much
prefer to be rid of the stench!

Lynda

  #14   Report Post  
Old 30-08-2003, 09:03 PM
Franz Heymann
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oxygenators seem to be dying


"Lynda Thornton" wrote in message
news
In article , Franz Heymann notfranz.
writes

"Tumbleweed" wrote in message
...

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Tumbleweed" wrote in message
. ..
"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

snip

Finally finally, you could probably get by until then by just
refilling
the
barrel with clean water, that will give the lily something

better
than
rotting gunge to overwinter in.

Surely the most straightforward way of coping is to simply

replace a
quarter
or so of the water daily until the problem disappears?

Franz

Dont forget there are no fish. I doubt the lily would care whether

the
water
was 25% changed or all in one go,and you'd also be sure to get all

the
rotting gunge at the bottom which a water change wouldnt

necessarily
touch
and which appears to be the root of the problem.

But surely one would scrape up any excesive amount of rotting stuff

by
hand
as a first step towards clearing up the barrel?


Indeed, but it was you who advised 'simply' a 25% water change and no
mention of removing gunge.....


My fault for being too brief........

Besides which to remove the gunge, probably the simplest way is it to

take
out the lily and then just wash the whole barrel out. Otherwise you'll

stir
up the gunge and create a mess which will stay there if you only change

25%
of the water.


Actually, when all's said and done, that is obviously the answer.

Franz


Re completely emptying the barrel, there is pondlife at the bottom
including at least one lesser water boatman - what should I do with
that, and possibly others, if I empty everything out?


Keep it in a bucket. Hopefully your barrel will be ready for re-use a day
or so later.

It's also not that easy to empty the thing to be quite honest, it's an
enormous wooden barrel 3ft diameter/high, weighs a ton and there's no
way I could tip it with even a small amount of water in it.


Plastic tubing for use as a syphon is obtainable at any tropical fish shop.
Syphon into a smaller container through a sieve for catching the waterlife.
But don't suck up the gunge. That will have to be removed by hand after the
barrel has been emptied.

Franz


Also, it's
on gravel, so it could make quite a mess if gunge etc splashes out all
over during cleaning. I'm not feeling like going through all this as
I'm sure lots of you can guess!

Also, in response to someone's comment, I hadn't realised that water
lilies were regarded as annuals, even in this climate - I thought that
once established they would come back every year? I certainly wouldn't
want to have to fork out every spring for one season's growth and a few
flowers!!

I really don't want to go down the electric pump route - there's no easy
way of hooking it up to a power supply or laying cable. I was hoping
there might be a solar option, ie a solar panel with a submergible pump
attached which could sit at the bottom and hopefully not disturb the
water too much, but in such a small barrel I suppose it would be likely
to be too turbulent and extremely costly as I can't find this kind of
thing on the web. Maybe the only answer is to get rid of the water
lily, even though this was what I really wanted in the barrel in the
first place, so that I can put my floating solar fountain on it next
summer and re-oxygenate the water that way. It's just a shame and I
really would have liked a water lily feature in the garden, but I'd much
prefer to be rid of the stench!

Lynda



  #15   Report Post  
Old 30-08-2003, 11:42 PM
Tumbleweed
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oxygenators seem to be dying


"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

snip


Also, it's
on gravel, so it could make quite a mess if gunge etc splashes out all
over during cleaning. I'm not feeling like going through all this as
I'm sure lots of you can guess!

Also, in response to someone's comment, I hadn't realised that water
lilies were regarded as annuals, even in this climate - I thought that
once established they would come back every year? I certainly wouldn't
want to have to fork out every spring for one season's growth and a few
flowers!!

I really don't want to go down the electric pump route - there's no easy
way of hooking it up to a power supply or laying cable. I was hoping
there might be a solar option, ie a solar panel with a submergible pump
attached which could sit at the bottom and hopefully not disturb the
water too much, but in such a small barrel I suppose it would be likely
to be too turbulent and extremely costly as I can't find this kind of
thing on the web. Maybe the only answer is to get rid of the water
lily, even though this was what I really wanted in the barrel in the
first place, so that I can put my floating solar fountain on it next
summer and re-oxygenate the water that way. It's just a shame and I
really would have liked a water lily feature in the garden, but I'd much
prefer to be rid of the stench!

Lynda


Franz has made the good suggestions re siphoning so I wont add to that.

As to the lily, yes its perennial, but its leaves will die off* completely
and it will be dormant until late next spring.

Re a floating solar fountain, I'd guess, not having seen one (except pics on
the web just now), that the area required for solar power took up a good
deal of your barrel.

certainly the picture here
http://www.gardenitems.co.uk/solar_f...s_original.htm
makes it look huge even though it mentions a half barrel.

As you have gravel I'd have thought it would be easy to lay cable. If you
got a pump with a low voltage supply you could also use thin two core cable.
Or if you really dont want to do that how about a solar powered pump
http://www.nclsolar.com/p_gard.htm (85 though)


Or, more decorative (and expensive) one of these

http://www.water-garden.co.uk/water_...olar/solar.php

Or, they might be able to sell the solar panels/pump/cables that power
these, separately and cheaper?


OR try here

http://shopping.lycos.co.uk/query.ht...re=4&x=29&y=10

(if that doesnt work its Kays catalogue, do a search on solar pump)

Obviously (??) with a solar pump you can adjust the output by how you place
the solar panel. BUt one of those cascade jobbies will also lessen the flow
into the barrel.

HTH

--
Tumbleweed

* adding even more to the rotting gunge!!

Remove theobvious before replying (but no email reply necessary to
newsgroups)





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