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#16
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compost heap question
"Shannie" wrote in message ... During the winter I burn only peat briquettes. I don't burn coal or anything else on the fire. The result of which is two buckets of very dusty peat ash per week. Is it alright to add this to the compost heap or would it upset the balance too much? Is there any other way I could use it? Also, now the weather has cooled right off is it still essential to 'activate' the heap as often as during the summer? I also only burn peat and the ash has always stayed as just ash in any small compost heat I've added it to. When I had chickens I used to put it in their field or house and they loved it as a dust bath and it was then incorporated into the very large and active heaps created when the straw/manure/ash mixture was removed and heaped. -- Chris Thomas West Cork Ireland |
#17
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compost heap question
"K" wrote in message ... [snip] Personally, I am as 'organic' or 'inorganic' as I want to be, both in my garden and in my every day life. Hear Hear!! I neither expect nor want people to impose their ideas on me and I don't criticise them for their beliefs. I have been a scientist all my life and I regard it as important to criticise beliefs connected with scientific matters which have no scientific basis. I propose to go on doing so, much though you might dislike me for it. K (the original one) Perhaps you could be distinguished from that nerd "k" if you called yourself "KKK"? {:-)) Franz |
#18
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compost heap question
Shannie wrote:
During the winter I burn only peat briquettes. I don't burn coal or anything else on the fire. The result of which is two buckets of very dusty peat ash per week. Is it alright to add this to the compost heap or would it upset the balance too much? Is there any other way I could use it? Also, now the weather has cooled right off is it still essential to 'activate' the heap as often as during the summer? Thanks guys Shannie This could be an intersting link for you shannie have a read http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2801541.stm You can make up your own mind |
#19
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compost heap question
On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:53:52 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote: John, I keep seeing wishy washy definitions of what is considered as being "organic" by organic gardeners. None of them stand up to any detailed scrutiny. Talk to the Soil Assoc. people then - I'm sure they'll be only too pleased to debate the issue on the scientific level you aspire to....us lot are just 'umble gardeners. Surely there are only beneficient and deleterious substances as far as gardening is concerned. Keep on using the beneficient substances and cease to use a substance as soon as it is proven to be sufficiently deleterious to warrant such action. Might be too late then....DDT, Creosote etc.. What on earth more could one in fact ask for? No unpleasant surprises several years down the line, for one. I'm perfectly happy to stick with my 'wishy washy' definition of organic gardening - it renders the need for concern about the use of this and that academic. If, in future years, I see a report on the telly that says such-and-such a chemical is implicated in such-and-such an illness I can just shrug my shoulders and get on with my dinner. If I don't see such a report then everyone's happy. Regards, -- Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations www.shwoodwind.co.uk Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk |
#20
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compost heap question
In article , "Franz Heymann" writes: | | I will never, never understand the mysteries of this practice. Who lays | down the do's and don'ts? Is there some democratically elected committee, | or do the rules come from on high? Or does every member of the movement | just invent them as they go? Yes, or no, or perhaps. It depends on your viewpoint. | Considering that Phurnacite is coal which is decomposed and compressed | plant material, why is the use of its ash taboo, whilst that of wood is | kosher? I know the answer, of course, but it has nothing to do with | "organic" or "not organic". If you take that viewpoint to extremes, most plastics are derived from plant material. | Or consider the following: Wood ash is OK. What is the situation | vis-a-vis wood which has first been converted into coke by heat and | subsequently burnt as coke? Is this ash "organic" or "not organic"? Don't you mean charcoal? Coke is derived from coal. From a practical point of view, there is little difference between wood ash, peat ash and charcoal ash. None will do any harm on a mixed compost heap, in moderation. Large quantities should be spread directly on the ground. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#21
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compost heap question
"Rodger Whitlock" wrote in
message ... On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:17:45 +0000 (UTC), Franz Heymann wrote: ...a person who believes in organic growing would (or should) object strongly to using ash in a garden, since ash is entirely inorganic. [I have a funny idea we've had this dispute before...] Franz, you're confusing (istm) the technical sense of the word "organic" as in "organic chemists make big stinks" with the broader sense meaning, roughly, integrated, treated as a whole, and so on. Organic gardening means afaict gardening without using synthetic fertilizers or pesti-/fungi-/insecticides. .....unless its a mixture of copper sulfate, slaked lime and salt in which case its organic. ....apparently. -- Tumbleweed Remove theobvious before replying (but no email reply necessary to newsgroups) |
#22
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compost heap question
In message , Shannie
writes During the winter I burn only peat briquettes. I don't burn coal or anything else on the fire. The result of which is two buckets of very dusty peat ash per week. Is it alright to add this to the compost heap or would it upset the balance too much? Is there any other way I could use it? Also, now the weather has cooled right off is it still essential to 'activate' the heap as often as during the summer? You do realise that burning peat for heat and power is actually far worse for the environment than using it as compost for gardening? Peat ash can concentrate elements that you don't really want to add to your garden. Change to renewable wood burning instead and you would have a nice alkaline potash fertiliser. Regards, -- Martin Brown |
#23
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compost heap question
"Stephen Howard" wrote in message
... On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:53:52 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann" wrote: John, I keep seeing wishy washy definitions of what is considered as being "organic" by organic gardeners. None of them stand up to any detailed scrutiny. Talk to the Soil Assoc. people then - I'm sure they'll be only too pleased to debate the issue on the scientific level you aspire to....us lot are just 'umble gardeners. Surely there are only beneficient and deleterious substances as far as gardening is concerned. Keep on using the beneficient substances and cease to use a substance as soon as it is proven to be sufficiently deleterious to warrant such action. Might be too late then....DDT, Creosote etc.. What on earth more could one in fact ask for? No unpleasant surprises several years down the line, for one. You ask for the impossible. There are plenty of 'organic' thinsg that are harmful. Lettuce contains more carcinogenic chemicals than many artificial pesticides (banned or otherwise), for example. What are you going to do if thats one of your unpleasant surprises, that you've been happily muching on those for years whilst avoiding spraying them with pesticides that are less toxic than the lettuces! I'm perfectly happy to stick with my 'wishy washy' definition of organic gardening - it renders the need for concern about the use of this and that academic. If, in future years, I see a report on the telly that says such-and-such a chemical is implicated in such-and-such an illness I can just shrug my shoulders and get on with my dinner. Why? Do you believe that organic substances cant be harmful? Havent you seen the reports of organic crops having higher levels of toxic fungi on them? Seen the reports on sufactants used with glyphosphate being a problem? Thats detergents to you. Ever sprayed your aphids with a solution of washing up liquid, or poured the old washing up liquid on the garden? WHo knows what unpleasant surprises may be waiting for you down the line. -- Tumbleweed Remove theobvious before replying (but no email reply necessary to newsgroups) -- Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations www.shwoodwind.co.uk Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk |
#24
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compost heap question
"K k or keith read my address" wrote in message
... Shannie wrote: During the winter I burn only peat briquettes. I don't burn coal or anything else on the fire. The result of which is two buckets of very dusty peat ash per week. Is it alright to add this to the compost heap or would it upset the balance too much? Is there any other way I could use it? Also, now the weather has cooled right off is it still essential to 'activate' the heap as often as during the summer? Thanks guys Shannie This could be an intersting link for you shannie have a read http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2801541.stm You can make up your own mind IIRC forests have very high concentrations of dioxins (sometimes higher than near incinerators) caused by fungi breaking down decaying wood. But perhaps these are 'organic' dioxins and therefore safe? -- Tumbleweed Remove theobvious before replying (but no email reply necessary to newsgroups) |
#25
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compost heap question
On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:53:25 -0000, "Tumbleweed"
wrote: snip Why? Do you believe that organic substances cant be harmful? Havent you seen the reports of organic crops having higher levels of toxic fungi on them? Seen the reports on sufactants used with glyphosphate being a problem? Thats detergents to you. Ever sprayed your aphids with a solution of washing up liquid, or poured the old washing up liquid on the garden? WHo knows what unpleasant surprises may be waiting for you down the line. I have decided that "organic" is nearer to being a religion than a science, you either believe in it or you don't. Making scientific based criticism, only upsets the believers and causes unpleasantness. No end of arguing here is going to change the minds of the converted or the sceptics. -- Martin |
#26
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compost heap question
On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:53:25 -0000, "Tumbleweed"
wrote: "Stephen Howard" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:53:52 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann" wrote: What on earth more could one in fact ask for? No unpleasant surprises several years down the line, for one. You ask for the impossible. There are plenty of 'organic' thinsg that are harmful. Lettuce contains more carcinogenic chemicals than many artificial pesticides (banned or otherwise), for example. What are you going to do if thats one of your unpleasant surprises, that you've been happily muching on those for years whilst avoiding spraying them with pesticides that are less toxic than the lettuces! For sure, I'm well aware that nature has its own arsenal of nasties - but that's the whole point, it's nature. The biggest killer of all by far is life itself. Got anything I can put on that? And bunging yet more chemicals onto an already carcinogenic vegetable does what, exactly? I'm perfectly happy to stick with my 'wishy washy' definition of organic gardening - it renders the need for concern about the use of this and that academic. If, in future years, I see a report on the telly that says such-and-such a chemical is implicated in such-and-such an illness I can just shrug my shoulders and get on with my dinner. Why? Do you believe that organic substances cant be harmful? See above... Havent you seen the reports of organic crops having higher levels of toxic fungi on them? No, I haven't - unless you're referring to Ergot. And how concerned should I be? Exposure in moderate doses to toxic substances doesn't always mean a quick and painful death - quite the reverse in some cases. As the saying goes, you'll eat a peck of dust before you die. Seen the reports on sufactants used with glyphosphate being a problem? Yep, it's one reason I don't use them ( ground elder excepted this year, natch ) Thats detergents to you. Ever sprayed your aphids with a solution of washing up liquid, or poured the old washing up liquid on the garden? Nope. WHo knows what unpleasant surprises may be waiting for you down the line. Which is perhaps the best reason I've yet seen not to compound the problem by adding yet more chemicals or otherwise monkeying about with nature. Regards, -- Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations www.shwoodwind.co.uk Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk |
#27
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compost heap question
In article ,
(Martin Brown) wrote: You do realise that burning peat for heat and power is actually far worse for the environment He's in Ireland. Almost all their energy has to be imported except peat and they've got a lot of it. Steve Harris - Cheltenham - Real address steve AT netservs DOT com |
#28
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compost heap question
"Stephen Howard" wrote in message ... On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 08:01:29 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann" wrote: As far as I'm concerned, organic gardening is about using common sense - and the basic rule of thumb is to stick with naturally occurring materials. I try to use common sense in my approach to gardening. I use any substance which I understand to have one or more beneficial effects on the environment and I avoid substances which have been proven by scientific experiments to have deleterious effect on balance. I doubt if that makes me an organic gardener. I am certainlt not a bandwaggoner. I'm sure you can find a better and more concise explanation out there - but this one suffices for me...I prefer gardening to politics. I have been searching for long for precise definitions, but every time I come across only wishy-washy ones like that porposed by you higher up in this thread. Considering that Phurnacite is coal which is decomposed and compressed plant material, why is the use of its ash taboo, whilst that of wood is kosher? I know the answer, of course, but it has nothing to do with "organic" or "not organic". I could be wrong, but as far as I'm aware processed coals like this contain additives in order to regulate their burn. I know for sure that there's a substantial difference in the quality of the ash from plain old coal. I wouldn't recommend coal ash on the garden anyway. I would have thought that if anything was organic, coal was. Now do you understand my problem? I wrote to His Bobness, Duke of Flowerdew for some clarification on the use of coal ash - his reply said that the residual sulphur in the ash made it unsuitable for general garden use, though it's apparently fine for cold frame drainage and chicken dust-baths. Or consider the following: Wood ash is OK. What is the situation vis-a-vis wood which has first been converted into coke by heat and subsequently burnt as coke? Is this ash "organic" or "not organic"? It would be considered organic. If you chucked a plastic bottle into the converter you'd render the coke inorganic. In spite of the fact that the plastic yields only gases in its combustion product, and therfore leaves no residue in the solid ash? By the way, I used the wrong word when I said "coke". I obviously meant "charcoal". Franz |
#29
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compost heap question
"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message ... In article , "Franz Heymann" writes: | | I will never, never understand the mysteries of this practice. Who lays | down the do's and don'ts? Is there some democratically elected committee, | or do the rules come from on high? Or does every member of the movement | just invent them as they go? Yes, or no, or perhaps. It depends on your viewpoint. | Considering that Phurnacite is coal which is decomposed and compressed | plant material, why is the use of its ash taboo, whilst that of wood is | kosher? I know the answer, of course, but it has nothing to do with | "organic" or "not organic". If you take that viewpoint to extremes, most plastics are derived from plant material. | Or consider the following: Wood ash is OK. What is the situation | vis-a-vis wood which has first been converted into coke by heat and | subsequently burnt as coke? Is this ash "organic" or "not organic"? Don't you mean charcoal? Coke is derived from coal. Yes. My apologies for the misuse of a word. I have corrected myself three times altogether now. From a practical point of view, there is little difference between wood ash, peat ash and charcoal ash. None will do any harm on a mixed compost heap, in moderation. Large quantities should be spread directly on the ground. Understood. Now what about real coke ash? That comes from coal which comes from a mixture of plants. Franz |
#30
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compost heap question
"Tumbleweed" wrote in message . .. "Rodger Whitlock" wrote in message ... On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:17:45 +0000 (UTC), Franz Heymann wrote: ...a person who believes in organic growing would (or should) object strongly to using ash in a garden, since ash is entirely inorganic. [I have a funny idea we've had this dispute before...] Franz, you're confusing (istm) the technical sense of the word "organic" as in "organic chemists make big stinks" with the broader sense meaning, roughly, integrated, treated as a whole, and so on. Organic gardening means afaict gardening without using synthetic fertilizers or pesti-/fungi-/insecticides. ....unless its a mixture of copper sulfate, slaked lime and salt in which case its organic. ...apparently. Yet, diesel oil, which is as organic as anything, is frowned upon as a weedkiller Franz |
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