During the winter I burn only peat briquettes. I don't burn coal or anything
else on the fire. The result of which is two buckets of very dusty peat ash
per week. Is it alright to add this to the compost heap or would it upset
the balance too much? Is there any other way I could use it? Also, now the
weather has cooled right off is it still essential to 'activate' the heap as
often as during the summer?


Thanks guys
Shannie

"Shannie" wrote in message
...
During the winter I burn only peat briquettes. I don't burn coal or
anything
else on the fire. The result of which is two buckets of very dusty peat
ash
per week. Is it alright to add this to the compost heap or would it upset
the balance too much? Is there any other way I could use it? Also, now
the
weather has cooled right off is it still essential to 'activate' the heap
as
often as during the summer?

My first thoughts on this are that you would be overloading your compost
heap with the chemicals of which the ash is composed.
Moreover, a person who believes in organic growing would (or should) object
strongly to using ash in a garden, since ash is entirely inorganic.

Franz

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:17:45 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:




My first thoughts on this are that you would be overloading your compost
heap with the chemicals of which the ash is composed.
Moreover, a person who believes in organic growing would (or should) object
strongly to using ash in a garden, since ash is entirely inorganic.

I think perhaps you misunderstand the meaning of the term 'organic
gardening' somewhat?
There'd be nothing wrong with using peat ash, any more than there
would be wood ash.
Were you to take the Phurnacite ash from your Rayburn and shove it on
the garden you'd veer off the straight and narrow.

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:17:45 +0000 (UTC), Franz Heymann wrote:

...a person who believes in organic growing would (or should) object
strongly to using ash in a garden, since ash is entirely inorganic.

[I have a funny idea we've had this dispute before...]

Franz, you're confusing (istm) the technical sense of the word
"organic" as in "organic chemists make big stinks" with the
broader sense meaning, roughly, integrated, treated as a whole,
and so on.

Organic gardening means afaict gardening without using synthetic
fertilizers or pesti-/fungi-/insecticides. ~Wood~ ash is
recognized among organic gardeners as a good source of potassium;
indeed, our forefathers made soap from fat and wood ash.


--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
change "invalid" to "net" to respond

"Stephen Howard" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:17:45 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:




My first thoughts on this are that you would be overloading your compost
heap with the chemicals of which the ash is composed.
Moreover, a person who believes in organic growing would (or should)
object
strongly to using ash in a garden, since ash is entirely inorganic.

I think perhaps you misunderstand the meaning of the term 'organic
gardening' somewhat?
There'd be nothing wrong with using peat ash, any more than there
would be wood ash.
Were you to take the Phurnacite ash from your Rayburn and shove it on
the garden you'd veer off the straight and narrow.

I will never, never understand the mysteries of this practice. Who lays
down the do's and don'ts? Is there some democratically elected committee,
or do the rules come from on high? Or does every member of the movement
just invent them as they go?
Considering that Phurnacite is coal which is decomposed and compressed
plant material, why is the use of its ash taboo, whilst that of wood is
kosher? I know the answer, of course, but it has nothing to do with
"organic" or "not organic".

Or consider the following: Wood ash is OK. What is the situation
vis-a-vis wood which has first been converted into coke by heat and
subsequently burnt as coke? Is this ash "organic" or "not organic"?

Franz

"Rodger Whitlock" wrote in
message ...

[snip]

Franz, you're confusing (istm) the technical sense of the word
"organic" as in "organic chemists make big stinks" with the
broader sense meaning, roughly, integrated, treated as a whole,
and so on.

What is the difference *in principle* between the chemical processes which
occur in the burning of wood and an exothermic reaction in a laboratory? In
both cases, elements rearrange themselves in accordance with precisely the
same underlying laws of quantum mechanics.

Organic gardening means afaict gardening without using synthetic
fertilizers or pesti-/fungi-/insecticides. ~Wood~ ash is
recognized among organic gardeners as a good source of potassium;
indeed, our forefathers made soap from fat and wood ash.

I know more or less what is, and is not "recognised" by the fraternity as
being "good". What escapes me entirely is what on earth the foundation of
these rules are. To me, many of them appear to be entirely arbitrary, with
no foundation in science.

I do not know of a set of unambiguous rules to apply in order to deduce
whether some new substance or procedure is to be classified as acceptable or
not. For any rule which you might give me, I will guarantee to find you an
outright exception, or at least a dubious case. As a scientist, (or rather,
a has been scientist), I find the whole topic ununderstandable and
unsupportable.

Finally, please note that I momentarily donned the cloak of an organic
gardener when I warned the OP that she would be using an artificially
produced chemical mixture, if she put garden ash on her compost heap.

Next tme you will tell me that a fire is a natural process. I offer you my
answer in anticipation: Wold you put rubber ash on your compost heap? Bear
in mind that rubber is produced organically. It is vulcanised by applying
heat and ultimately burning it is not supposed to be an artificial process.

Franz

"Shannie" wrote in message
...
During the winter I burn only peat briquettes. I don't burn coal or
anything
else on the fire. The result of which is two buckets of very dusty peat
ash
per week. Is it alright to add this to the compost heap or would it upset
the balance too much? Is there any other way I could use it? Also, now
the
weather has cooled right off is it still essential to 'activate' the heap
as
often as during the summer?


Thanks guys
Shannie


Let you chickens use it as a dust bath. I know wood ash is meant to be good
with the added bonus that it helps control the lice etc
Jay

Fercrissake ... the OP wasn't asking for debate on what is organic or
not ... personally I'd sprinkle *some* of the ash on my compost heap,
but keep *most* of it in a separate pile, for judicious use in certain
circumstances. Otherwise the "living" nature of The Heap would be
gradually suffocated by the inert ash. In My Most Inexpert (but
nontheless I believe Common Sense) Opinion.

--
And Franz: you're being too picky. Everything under the Sun is
"organic", unless it is a mineral. But we're not talking about what
chemists talk about as organic or inorganic: we're talking about
holistic gardening ... what would Mother Nature say about "this" or
"that" substance if she found it in your garden? That's the question
that drives us fumblers!

Best wishes all

John
--
John Law
Hexham
Northumberland

Xref: kermit uk.rec.gardening:173387


"John Law" wrote in message
...
: Fercrissake ... the OP wasn't asking for debate on what is organic or
: not ... personally I'd sprinkle *some* of the ash on my compost heap,
: but keep *most* of it in a separate pile, for judicious use in certain
: circumstances. Otherwise the "living" nature of The Heap would be
: gradually suffocated by the inert ash. In My Most Inexpert (but
: nontheless I believe Common Sense) Opinion.
:
: --
: And Franz: you're being too picky. Everything under the Sun is
: "organic", unless it is a mineral. But we're not talking about what
: chemists talk about as organic or inorganic: we're talking about
: holistic gardening ... what would Mother Nature say about "this" or
: "that" substance if she found it in your garden? That's the question
: that drives us fumblers!
:
: Best wishes all
:
: John
: --
: John Law
: Hexham
: Northumberland

Well said John. We had all this in urg not very long ago but some posters
are like a dog with a bone.

Personally, I am as 'organic' or 'inorganic' as I want to be, both in my
garden and in my every day life. I neither expect nor want people to impose
their ideas on me and I don't criticise them for their beliefs. Much the
same way as I feel about politics, religion, hunting and a thousand etcs.

Live and let live is my motto, but obviously some here have not heard of
this.

K (the original one)

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 08:01:29 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:

Considering that Phurnacite is coal which is decomposed and compressed
plant material, why is the use of its ash taboo, whilst that of wood is
kosher?

Isn't peat decomposed and compressed material?
--
MCC

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 08:01:29 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


I will never, never understand the mysteries of this practice. Who lays
down the do's and don'ts? Is there some democratically elected committee,
or do the rules come from on high? Or does every member of the movement
just invent them as they go?

The Soil Association is, I think, the arbiter of what constitutes a
formal declaration of what organic gardening is.
I should imagine you can join them and take part in their
constitutional issues if you so desired.
As far as I'm concerned, organic gardening is about using common sense
- and the basic rule of thumb is to stick with naturally occurring
materials.
I'm sure you can find a better and more concise explanation out there
- but this one suffices for me...I prefer gardening to politics.

Considering that Phurnacite is coal which is decomposed and compressed
plant material, why is the use of its ash taboo, whilst that of wood is
kosher? I know the answer, of course, but it has nothing to do with
"organic" or "not organic".

I could be wrong, but as far as I'm aware processed coals like this
contain additives in order to regulate their burn. I know for sure
that there's a substantial difference in the quality of the ash from
plain old coal.
I wouldn't recommend coal ash on the garden anyway.

I wrote to His Bobness, Duke of Flowerdew for some clarification on
the use of coal ash - his reply said that the residual sulphur in the
ash made it unsuitable for general garden use, though it's apparently
fine for cold frame drainage and chicken dust-baths.


Or consider the following: Wood ash is OK. What is the situation
vis-a-vis wood which has first been converted into coke by heat and
subsequently burnt as coke? Is this ash "organic" or "not organic"?

It would be considered organic.
If you chucked a plastic bottle into the converter you'd render the
coke inorganic.

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

Xref: kermit uk.rec.gardening:173398

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 10:13:26 +0000, John Law
wrote:

Fercrissake ... the OP wasn't asking for debate on what is organic or
not ... personally I'd sprinkle *some* of the ash on my compost heap,
but keep *most* of it in a separate pile, for judicious use in certain
circumstances. Otherwise the "living" nature of The Heap would be
gradually suffocated by the inert ash. In My Most Inexpert (but
nontheless I believe Common Sense) Opinion.

--
And Franz: you're being too picky. Everything under the Sun is
"organic", unless it is a mineral. But we're not talking about what
chemists talk about as organic or inorganic: we're talking about
holistic gardening ... what would Mother Nature say about "this" or
"that" substance if she found it in your garden? That's the question
that drives us fumblers!

That's a good point too - organic gardening is about maintaining as
natural a balance as possible, so while you could quite happily fill
your plot with wood ash and maintain 'organic' integrity, you'd
actually be missing the point.

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

"MCC" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 08:01:29 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:

Considering that Phurnacite is coal which is decomposed and compressed
plant material, why is the use of its ash taboo, whilst that of wood is
kosher?

Isn't peat decomposed and compressed material?

Yes. And if I understand things correctly, peat which is dragged
underground by geological processes and subjected to very high pressures for
a million years or thereabouts, becomes coal.

Franz

"John Law" wrote in message
...
Fercrissake ... the OP wasn't asking for debate on what is organic or
not ... personally I'd sprinkle *some* of the ash on my compost heap,
but keep *most* of it in a separate pile, for judicious use in certain
circumstances. Otherwise the "living" nature of The Heap would be
gradually suffocated by the inert ash. In My Most Inexpert (but
nontheless I believe Common Sense) Opinion.

--
And Franz: you're being too picky. Everything under the Sun is
"organic", unless it is a mineral. But we're not talking about what
chemists talk about as organic or inorganic: we're talking about
holistic gardening ... what would Mother Nature say about "this" or
"that" substance if she found it in your garden? That's the question
that drives us fumblers!

John, I keep seeing wishy washy definitions of what is considered as being
"organic" by organic gardeners. None of them stand up to any detailed
scrutiny.
Surely there are only beneficient and deleterious substances as far as
gardening is concerned. Keep on using the beneficient substances and cease
to use a substance as soon as it is proven to be sufficiently deleterious to
warrant such action. What on earth more could one in fact ask for?

Franz

"Shannie" wrote in message
...
During the winter I burn only peat briquettes. I don't burn coal or
anything
else on the fire. The result of which is two buckets of very dusty peat
ash
per week. Is it alright to add this to the compost heap or would it
upset
the balance too much? Is there any other way I could use it? Also, now
the
weather has cooled right off is it still essential to 'activate' the
heap as
often as during the summer?

I also only burn peat and the ash has always stayed as just ash in any
small compost heat I've added it to. When I had chickens I used to put it
in their field or house and they loved it as a dust bath and it was then
incorporated into the very large and active heaps created when the
straw/manure/ash mixture was removed and heaped.
--
Chris Thomas
West Cork
Ireland