On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:01:34 +0000 (UTC), "Mike" wrote:


Much later I bought a house which also had a Conservatory , this too had a
vine planted in the same way. Tons of leaves, tons of very very small
grapes, many of which went mouldy before being ready to eat.

Hopefully, some more experienced Vine Gardeners will point out what was
wrong with our vines so you don't make the same mistakes. Toooooooooo many
leaves. Tooooooooooo small grapes. Mould.

Some types of vine produce small grapes and some types produce big
grapes.
--
Martin

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:01:34 +0000 (UTC), "Mike" wrote:


Much later I bought a house which also had a Conservatory , this too had a
vine planted in the same way. Tons of leaves, tons of very very small
grapes, many of which went mouldy before being ready to eat.

Hopefully, some more experienced Vine Gardeners will point out what was
wrong with our vines so you don't make the same mistakes. Toooooooooo many
leaves. Tooooooooooo small grapes. Mould.

Some types of vine produce small grapes and some types produce big
grapes.
--
Martin

In article , Chris Boulby
writes

Does one really need to protect grape roots in winter? If so, what
from? I know they grow successfully in the Niagara fruit belt in
Southern Ontario, where winter can be both severe (down to -20C at
times) and sometimes quite wet if the snow thaws. The main reason for
growing grapes here under glass may be to give them more summer warmth
to ripen them, but others may know more than I do about this subject. I
have grown them completely outdoors when I lived in South Yorkshire, and
even managed to ripen them. We only got three bottles of wine from our
one vine :-)

Yes, grape vines will survive UK winters outside and live to grow again.
They will often flower and begin to bunch up too, but unless they are a
hardy variety bred for that purpose (often with sharp white berries),
they will seldom produce a satisfactory crop of fruit. There are some
commercial vineyards in S& SW UK where local conditions permit.

We have prolific crops from three varieties of vine in greenhouse and
poly-tunnel. They all propagate well from cuttings, but none have ever
done much more than survive outside.
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

"martin" wrote in message
...
Bob Flowerdew says he now advocates growing vines in big containers
and keeping them inside in summer and outside in winter. Yes that
way round. I forget the reasoning but have heard him say it more than
once on GQT. It is probably in one of his books somewhere.

Our vines grow in the garden without any protection.

You get better weather there than we do in Scotland

O

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:43:28 -0000, "Ophelia"
wrote:


"martin" wrote in message
.. .
Bob Flowerdew says he now advocates growing vines in big containers
and keeping them inside in summer and outside in winter. Yes that
way round. I forget the reasoning but have heard him say it more than
once on GQT. It is probably in one of his books somewhere.

Our vines grow in the garden without any protection.

You get better weather there than we do in Scotland

but not as good as in Chateau Neuf du Pape. Perhaps why our little
vineyard is not famous?

Despite which we do get very low temperatures occasionally. The ground
was frozen here from tDecember to March in 1978-1979. My vine was
living in an exposed third floor balcony wooden home made flower box.
It survived without a problem.
--
Martin

Pam Moore wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 12:32:02 -0000, "Pete Griffiths"
wrote:


We currently have a new conservatory under construction, and have
been given a vine (no idea what variety!). There are no planting
holes in the floor, but I have heard that a useful alternative is to
plant the vine outside against the wall, and train it through a hole
into the conservatory. The hole would be large enough to accept the
girth of the vine when matured, and would be packed with foam or a
similar material in the meantine. Is this a sensible approach? (One
of my concerns is mice!)

Bob Flowerdew says he now advocates growing vines in big containers
and keeping them inside in summer and outside in winter. Yes that
way round. I forget the reasoning but have heard him say it more than
once on GQT. It is probably in one of his books somewhere.


the plant itself is very hardy - note the alpine vineyards. but the fruit
needs more warmth than many uk summers can provide except for cool climate
vines. My vitis brandt delivers a very healthy crop of small sweet grapes
every year outside in SW19.

Also a large vine is a very hungry plant if allowed to fruit heavily, hence
the practice of top growth inside, root growth outside - eg Hampton court
where the extensive root area is kept clear and manured every year.

pk

Hopefully, some more experienced Vine Gardeners will point out what was
wrong with our vines so you don't make the same mistakes. Toooooooooo
many
leaves. Tooooooooooo small grapes. Mould.

Some types of vine produce small grapes and some types produce big
grapes.

LOL almost as dry as the end result!!!

Andrew

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:37:02 -0000, "Andy Hunt"
wrote:



Hopefully, some more experienced Vine Gardeners will point out what was
wrong with our vines so you don't make the same mistakes. Toooooooooo
many
leaves. Tooooooooooo small grapes. Mould.

Some types of vine produce small grapes and some types produce big
grapes.

LOL almost as dry as the end result!!!

What do mean LOL?
It was a serious answer.
--
Martin

Hopefully, some more experienced Vine Gardeners will point out what was
wrong with our vines so you don't make the same mistakes. Toooooooooo
many
leaves. Tooooooooooo small grapes. Mould.

Some types of vine produce small grapes and some types produce big
grapes.

LOL almost as dry as the end result!!!

Andrew

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:37:02 -0000, "Andy Hunt"
wrote:



Hopefully, some more experienced Vine Gardeners will point out what was
wrong with our vines so you don't make the same mistakes. Toooooooooo
many
leaves. Tooooooooooo small grapes. Mould.

Some types of vine produce small grapes and some types produce big
grapes.

LOL almost as dry as the end result!!!

What do mean LOL?
It was a serious answer.
--
Martin

Hopefully, some more experienced Vine Gardeners will point out what was
wrong with our vines so you don't make the same mistakes. Toooooooooo
many
leaves. Tooooooooooo small grapes. Mould.

Some types of vine produce small grapes and some types produce big
grapes.

LOL almost as dry as the end result!!!

Andrew

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:37:02 -0000, "Andy Hunt"
wrote:



Hopefully, some more experienced Vine Gardeners will point out what was
wrong with our vines so you don't make the same mistakes. Toooooooooo
many
leaves. Tooooooooooo small grapes. Mould.

Some types of vine produce small grapes and some types produce big
grapes.

LOL almost as dry as the end result!!!

What do mean LOL?
It was a serious answer.
--
Martin

In message , Alan Gould
writes
In article , Chris Boulby
writes

Does one really need to protect grape roots in winter? If so, what
from? I know they grow successfully in the Niagara fruit belt in
Southern Ontario, where winter can be both severe (down to -20C at
times) and sometimes quite wet if the snow thaws. The main reason for
growing grapes here under glass may be to give them more summer warmth
to ripen them, but others may know more than I do about this subject. I
have grown them completely outdoors when I lived in South Yorkshire, and
even managed to ripen them. We only got three bottles of wine from our
one vine :-)

Yes, grape vines will survive UK winters outside and live to grow again.
They will often flower and begin to bunch up too, but unless they are a
hardy variety bred for that purpose (often with sharp white berries),
they will seldom produce a satisfactory crop of fruit. There are some
commercial vineyards in S& SW UK where local conditions permit.

We have prolific crops from three varieties of vine in greenhouse and
poly-tunnel. They all propagate well from cuttings, but none have ever
done much more than survive outside.

I hear what you are saying Alan, and I fully agree that you will get a
poor crop if they are not grown under glass in many parts of the UK, but
it is the lack of summer sunshine and heat rather than winter cold and
damp that prevents them from doing well. Are there any known to be
tender in this regard?

The one I grew in S. Yorks was a German red grape and it had good sized
berries on it, sorry I don't know its name now. But I would obviously
have got a better crop if the foliage part of the plant had been kept
under glass (or polytunnel).
--
Chris Boulby National Collection of Diascias
Please note new email address:

Chris Boulby11/1/04 3:57

In message , Sacha
writes
Pete Griffiths11/1/04 12:32

Hi,

We currently have a new conservatory under construction, and have been given
a vine (no idea what variety!). There are no planting holes in the floor,
but I have heard that a useful alternative is to plant the vine outside
against the wall, and train it through a hole into the conservatory. The
hole would be large enough to accept the girth of the vine when matured, and
would be packed with foam or a similar material in the meantine. Is this a
sensible approach? (One of my concerns is mice!)

It was the old-fashioned way of planting grape vines. They are in natural
soil and receive rain water - unless of course you have to take a hand
during a drought. Sounds a good approach to me.
Of course, where you live depends on whether or not you would need to
protect the roots in winter - I'm sure others can advise you on that.

Does one really need to protect grape roots in winter? If so, what
from? I know they grow successfully in the Niagara fruit belt in
Southern Ontario, where winter can be both severe (down to -20C at
times) and sometimes quite wet if the snow thaws. The main reason for
growing grapes here under glass may be to give them more summer warmth
to ripen them, but others may know more than I do about this subject. I
have grown them completely outdoors when I lived in South Yorkshire, and
even managed to ripen them. We only got three bottles of wine from our
one vine :-)
Chris Boulby National Collection of Diascias

Honestly, Chris, I don't know. I put that to be on the safe side for the OP
and that's why I said others would advise. I grew up in the CIs where
people used to grow grapes as described but where there is low frost danger.
I'd hate to encourage someone to plant a present and then kill it.
--

Sacha
(remove the 'x' to email me)

PK11/1/04 7:23

Pam Moore wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 12:32:02 -0000, "Pete Griffiths"
wrote:


We currently have a new conservatory under construction, and have
been given a vine (no idea what variety!). There are no planting
holes in the floor, but I have heard that a useful alternative is to
plant the vine outside against the wall, and train it through a hole
into the conservatory. The hole would be large enough to accept the
girth of the vine when matured, and would be packed with foam or a
similar material in the meantine. Is this a sensible approach? (One
of my concerns is mice!)

Bob Flowerdew says he now advocates growing vines in big containers
and keeping them inside in summer and outside in winter. Yes that
way round. I forget the reasoning but have heard him say it more than
once on GQT. It is probably in one of his books somewhere.


the plant itself is very hardy - note the alpine vineyards. but the fruit
needs more warmth than many uk summers can provide except for cool climate
vines. My vitis brandt delivers a very healthy crop of small sweet grapes
every year outside in SW19.

Also a large vine is a very hungry plant if allowed to fruit heavily, hence
the practice of top growth inside, root growth outside - eg Hampton court
where the extensive root area is kept clear and manured every year.

pk


In Guernsey, the original 'Guernsey Grape' was Canon Hall. This is rarely
grown there now since the glasshouse industry collapsed but at one time,
Guernsey Grapes were famous and exported in wooden punnets with metal
handles.
We bought one baby vine from Reads three years ago and it's grown a lot. I
hope that *next* year, it will fruit because I have never tasted a better
grape ever, anywhere in the world.
--

Sacha
(remove the 'x' to email me)