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Old 05-02-2004, 07:46 PM
Martin Sykes
 
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Default Help - Orange/Lemon trees dying

I've got a small lemon tree and a variety of small orange each in a pot.
This winter, they've both lost their leaves which didn't worry me too much
as it happened to the orange last year as well and it survived OK and
fruited again this year. But, now they are both dying back from the tips. No
sign of any bugs on the trees or in the soil. I'm misting every day now to
try and revive them but the orange tree in particular is looking very sad.
The stems are still green further down so they're not dead yet.

Any idea what ails them?

--
Martin & Anna Sykes
( Remove x's when replying )
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~sykesm


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Old 05-02-2004, 07:47 PM
Sacha
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help - Orange/Lemon trees dying

Martin Sykes5/2/04 10:42
om

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
Martin Sykes5/2/04 8:37


om

I've got a small lemon tree and a variety of small orange each in a pot.
This winter, they've both lost their leaves which didn't worry me too

much
as it happened to the orange last year as well and it survived OK and
fruited again this year. But, now they are both dying back from the

tips. No
sign of any bugs on the trees or in the soil. I'm misting every day now

to
try and revive them but the orange tree in particular is looking very

sad.
The stems are still green further down so they're not dead yet.

Any idea what ails them?


Over watering or did they get frosted, by any chance? When we have
customers having trouble with these, those are the usual problems,
especially the former plus lack of drainage between waterings.
--


I don't think they got overwatered - I let the compost dry out completely
between waterings. And I doubt frost as they're in the living room.

In your experience, are they likely to recover or should I just look at
replacing them?

Ray's experience ;-) says don't water them them until they're absolutely
bone dry and do make sure they really are before watering and let them drain
well. I'm not saying this applies to you at all but for the benefit of
others, we have had customers come in swearing they haven't over watered
things and Ray lifts them out of the pot to have them drip all over his
feet! Even half a pint of undrained water can be damaging.
If they're in a living room, rather than a conservatory or greenhouse, it
*could* be lack of light. He also says you have nothing to lose by waiting
until spring. Ours which are in greenhouses, tend to go through a very
tatty period for a while.
Presumably they're not right on top of a radiator and being dehydrated? If
so, move them, if not he suggests just leave them alone and don't even mist
them. Hard to tell without seeing them but there's nothing to be lost by
waiting until spring.
--

Sacha
(remove the weeds to email me)




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Old 05-02-2004, 07:47 PM
Sacha
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help - Orange/Lemon trees dying

Martin Sykes5/2/04 10:42
om

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
Martin Sykes5/2/04 8:37


om

I've got a small lemon tree and a variety of small orange each in a pot.
This winter, they've both lost their leaves which didn't worry me too

much
as it happened to the orange last year as well and it survived OK and
fruited again this year. But, now they are both dying back from the

tips. No
sign of any bugs on the trees or in the soil. I'm misting every day now

to
try and revive them but the orange tree in particular is looking very

sad.
The stems are still green further down so they're not dead yet.

Any idea what ails them?


Over watering or did they get frosted, by any chance? When we have
customers having trouble with these, those are the usual problems,
especially the former plus lack of drainage between waterings.
--


I don't think they got overwatered - I let the compost dry out completely
between waterings. And I doubt frost as they're in the living room.

In your experience, are they likely to recover or should I just look at
replacing them?

Ray's experience ;-) says don't water them them until they're absolutely
bone dry and do make sure they really are before watering and let them drain
well. I'm not saying this applies to you at all but for the benefit of
others, we have had customers come in swearing they haven't over watered
things and Ray lifts them out of the pot to have them drip all over his
feet! Even half a pint of undrained water can be damaging.
If they're in a living room, rather than a conservatory or greenhouse, it
*could* be lack of light. He also says you have nothing to lose by waiting
until spring. Ours which are in greenhouses, tend to go through a very
tatty period for a while.
Presumably they're not right on top of a radiator and being dehydrated? If
so, move them, if not he suggests just leave them alone and don't even mist
them. Hard to tell without seeing them but there's nothing to be lost by
waiting until spring.
--

Sacha
(remove the weeds to email me)


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Old 05-02-2004, 07:48 PM
kenty ;-\)
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help - Orange/Lemon trees dying

If they have been outside in summer,could it be vineweevil?I would lift the
plant out of the pot and check the roots.

--
Thanks Keith
"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
Martin Sykes5/2/04 10:42


om

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
Martin Sykes5/2/04 8:37



om

I've got a small lemon tree and a variety of small orange each in a

pot.
This winter, they've both lost their leaves which didn't worry me too

much
as it happened to the orange last year as well and it survived OK and
fruited again this year. But, now they are both dying back from the

tips. No
sign of any bugs on the trees or in the soil. I'm misting every day

now
to
try and revive them but the orange tree in particular is looking very

sad.
The stems are still green further down so they're not dead yet.

Any idea what ails them?

Over watering or did they get frosted, by any chance? When we have
customers having trouble with these, those are the usual problems,
especially the former plus lack of drainage between waterings.
--


I don't think they got overwatered - I let the compost dry out

completely
between waterings. And I doubt frost as they're in the living room.

In your experience, are they likely to recover or should I just look at
replacing them?


Ray's experience ;-) says don't water them them until they're absolutely
bone dry and do make sure they really are before watering and let them

drain
well. I'm not saying this applies to you at all but for the benefit of
others, we have had customers come in swearing they haven't over watered
things and Ray lifts them out of the pot to have them drip all over his
feet! Even half a pint of undrained water can be damaging.
If they're in a living room, rather than a conservatory or greenhouse, it
*could* be lack of light. He also says you have nothing to lose by

waiting
until spring. Ours which are in greenhouses, tend to go through a very
tatty period for a while.
Presumably they're not right on top of a radiator and being dehydrated?

If
so, move them, if not he suggests just leave them alone and don't even

mist
them. Hard to tell without seeing them but there's nothing to be lost by
waiting until spring.
--

Sacha
(remove the weeds to email me)




  #8   Report Post  
Old 05-02-2004, 07:48 PM
kenty ;-\)
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help - Orange/Lemon trees dying

If they have been outside in summer,could it be vineweevil?I would lift the
plant out of the pot and check the roots.

--
Thanks Keith
"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
Martin Sykes5/2/04 10:42


om

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
Martin Sykes5/2/04 8:37



om

I've got a small lemon tree and a variety of small orange each in a

pot.
This winter, they've both lost their leaves which didn't worry me too

much
as it happened to the orange last year as well and it survived OK and
fruited again this year. But, now they are both dying back from the

tips. No
sign of any bugs on the trees or in the soil. I'm misting every day

now
to
try and revive them but the orange tree in particular is looking very

sad.
The stems are still green further down so they're not dead yet.

Any idea what ails them?

Over watering or did they get frosted, by any chance? When we have
customers having trouble with these, those are the usual problems,
especially the former plus lack of drainage between waterings.
--


I don't think they got overwatered - I let the compost dry out

completely
between waterings. And I doubt frost as they're in the living room.

In your experience, are they likely to recover or should I just look at
replacing them?


Ray's experience ;-) says don't water them them until they're absolutely
bone dry and do make sure they really are before watering and let them

drain
well. I'm not saying this applies to you at all but for the benefit of
others, we have had customers come in swearing they haven't over watered
things and Ray lifts them out of the pot to have them drip all over his
feet! Even half a pint of undrained water can be damaging.
If they're in a living room, rather than a conservatory or greenhouse, it
*could* be lack of light. He also says you have nothing to lose by

waiting
until spring. Ours which are in greenhouses, tend to go through a very
tatty period for a while.
Presumably they're not right on top of a radiator and being dehydrated?

If
so, move them, if not he suggests just leave them alone and don't even

mist
them. Hard to tell without seeing them but there's nothing to be lost by
waiting until spring.
--

Sacha
(remove the weeds to email me)




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Old 05-02-2004, 10:02 PM
Martin Sykes
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help - Orange/Lemon trees dying

"kenty ;-)" wrote in message
...
If they have been outside in summer,could it be vineweevil?I would lift

the
plant out of the pot and check the roots.



Definitely not vine weevil but I've cut back the dead bits and repotted them
today. Just have to wait and see I guess...

--
Martin & Anna Sykes
( Remove x's when replying )
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~sykesm


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Old 06-02-2004, 05:02 AM
Dwayne
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help - Orange/Lemon trees dying

Martin, my wife is constantly fighting spider mites on hers. She mixes a
couple table spoons of liquid dish wash soap into a liter bottle of water
and sprays them once a week or so. She also places a fan blowing toward
them. Mites hate moving air.

She prunes off the dead wood on those what died back, and they came back.
She also waters then a couple times a week. Most of them grow in tropical
areas. They get a lot more rain from nature, than "letting them dry out and
then water them".

They sue smell good when they are blooming.

Dwayne


"Martin Sykes" wrote in message
...
I've got a small lemon tree and a variety of small orange each in a pot.
This winter, they've both lost their leaves which didn't worry me too much
as it happened to the orange last year as well and it survived OK and
fruited again this year. But, now they are both dying back from the tips.

No
sign of any bugs on the trees or in the soil. I'm misting every day now to
try and revive them but the orange tree in particular is looking very sad.
The stems are still green further down so they're not dead yet.

Any idea what ails them?

--
Martin & Anna Sykes
( Remove x's when replying )
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~sykesm







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Old 06-02-2004, 12:50 PM
Sacha
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help - Orange/Lemon trees dying

Dwayne6/2/04 3:54
Martin, my wife is constantly fighting spider mites on hers. She mixes a
couple table spoons of liquid dish wash soap into a liter bottle of water
and sprays them once a week or so. She also places a fan blowing toward
them. Mites hate moving air.

She prunes off the dead wood on those what died back, and they came back.
She also waters then a couple times a week. Most of them grow in tropical
areas. They get a lot more rain from nature, than "letting them dry out and
then water them".

They sue smell good when they are blooming.

snip

Dwayne, no disrespect but if you're not posting from Britain, the winter
treatment of such plants would be very different here. This group is geared
to gardening in the UK and I think you're posting from California?
We have lemon and orange trees in greenhouses or pots here and in winter
they have to be kept in a frost free conservatory or greenhouse. Some, like
the OP, keep them indoors but it's questionable that central heating and
lack of natural light, such as most sitting rooms have, is good for them.
But if they get waterlogged by over-watering and then have 'cold feet' for
any length of time they will die, even in a glasshouse. Our Meyer's lemon in
a small conservatory only gets watered if one of us happens to think of it
and several panes of glass blew out in the last storm but it is around 5'
tall and is covered with fruit at the moment.
The advice you're handing down is not at all appropriate for such plants
over-wintering in Britain and is more likely to kill them.
My husband sells these plants and in almost all cases the problems customers
experience are due to over-watering but most especially in winter.
In the areas in which orange and lemon trees grow naturally e.g. the
Mediterranean, the ground they are on is often sharply drained so while they
will get rained on, the roots will not remain soaking wet, the rain will
fall for a shorter period than the all year round rain we get here and in
the Med. they will get a good, long, summer baking in hot sun that we very
rarely see here! The same applies to those growing in California.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

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Old 07-02-2004, 04:49 AM
Dwayne
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help - Orange/Lemon trees dying


"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
Dwayne6/2/04 3:54 Dwayne, no disrespect but if you're not posting from Britain, the winter
treatment of such plants would be very different here. This group is

geared
to gardening in the UK and I think you're posting from California?
We have lemon and orange trees in greenhouses or pots here and in winter
they have to be kept in a frost free conservatory or greenhouse. Some,

like
the OP, keep them indoors but it's questionable that central heating and
lack of natural light, such as most sitting rooms have, is good for them.
But if they get waterlogged by over-watering and then have 'cold feet' for
any length of time they will die, even in a glasshouse. Our Meyer's lemon

in
a small conservatory only gets watered if one of us happens to think of it
and several panes of glass blew out in the last storm but it is around 5'
tall and is covered with fruit at the moment.
The advice you're handing down is not at all appropriate for such plants
over-wintering in Britain and is more likely to kill them.
My husband sells these plants and in almost all cases the problems

customers
experience are due to over-watering but most especially in winter.
In the areas in which orange and lemon trees grow naturally e.g. the
Mediterranean, the ground they are on is often sharply drained so while

they
will get rained on, the roots will not remain soaking wet, the rain will
fall for a shorter period than the all year round rain we get here and in
the Med. they will get a good, long, summer baking in hot sun that we very
rarely see here! The same applies to those growing in California.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)



No, I am posting from Kansas. Our winters here are much colder than the 3
years I spend in Germany. We put them inside during the cold months and
outside during the summer the same as you do.

We did it for 10 years in Colorado, (a more severe winter climate than
here), and in Arkansas (milder, but where it still froze during the winter
months). We have been here in Kansas for 3 winters.

She has raised some citrus from seed and we have bought several. They have
been a challenge most of the year, but a very rewarding one. She keeps them
in a pot that drains into a tray. After the plant as soaked up as much
water as it can, the tray is emptied of excess water. After nearly 17
years, they still smell great when blooming. We have eaten oranges and
limes that we grew inside the house and out in the yard (some have put on
fruit during the summer months that ripened after moving them inside, and
others have started fruit inside and ripened after placing the plants
outside.

Dwayne





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Old 07-02-2004, 11:35 AM
Sacha
 
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Default Help - Orange/Lemon trees dying

Dwayne7/2/04 3:32

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
Dwayne6/2/04 3:54
Dwayne, no disrespect but if you're not posting from Britain, the winter
treatment of such plants would be very different here. This group is

geared
to gardening in the UK and I think you're posting from California?



No, I am posting from Kansas. Our winters here are much colder than the 3
years I spend in Germany. We put them inside during the cold months and
outside during the summer the same as you do.


Are your summers longer and warmer? That's my impression.

We did it for 10 years in Colorado, (a more severe winter climate than
here), and in Arkansas (milder, but where it still froze during the winter
months). We have been here in Kansas for 3 winters.


I have a friend stationed in Grand Forks, N Dakota - his remarks about
winter don't bear repeating!

She has raised some citrus from seed and we have bought several. They have
been a challenge most of the year, but a very rewarding one. She keeps them
in a pot that drains into a tray. After the plant as soaked up as much
water as it can, the tray is emptied of excess water. After nearly 17
years, they still smell great when blooming. We have eaten oranges and
limes that we grew inside the house and out in the yard (some have put on
fruit during the summer months that ripened after moving them inside, and
others have started fruit inside and ripened after placing the plants
outside.

The draining is very important but so is not overwatering, most especially
if they're in a glass house where they could get cold feet. We're concerned
that the OP's plants may be suffering both from lack of light and central
heating. A cooler and more light filled room might be better for them. At
present, they might be trying to struggle with the sort of heat they'd
expect in summer months but without the light to encourage and sustain
development.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

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Old 07-02-2004, 02:16 PM
Martin Sykes
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help - Orange/Lemon trees dying

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
We're concerned
that the OP's plants may be suffering both from lack of light and central
heating. A cooler and more light filled room might be better for them. At
present, they might be trying to struggle with the sort of heat they'd
expect in summer months but without the light to encourage and sustain
development.


They should be getting plenty of light now but the heating could well be a
problem. They're on a table in a south facing bay window so they're getting
about as much light as I can give them. If they're not too tender, I could
put them outside in the greenhouse which very rarely gets near freezing or
would that be too cold? I'm planning on putting them outside on the patio in
summer anyway.

--
Martin & Anna Sykes
( Remove x's when replying )
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~sykesm


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Old 07-02-2004, 09:35 PM
Sacha
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help - Orange/Lemon trees dying

Martin Sykes7/2/04 1:10
om

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
We're concerned
that the OP's plants may be suffering both from lack of light and central
heating. A cooler and more light filled room might be better for them. At
present, they might be trying to struggle with the sort of heat they'd
expect in summer months but without the light to encourage and sustain
development.


They should be getting plenty of light now but the heating could well be a
problem. They're on a table in a south facing bay window so they're getting
about as much light as I can give them. If they're not too tender, I could
put them outside in the greenhouse which very rarely gets near freezing or
would that be too cold? I'm planning on putting them outside on the patio in
summer anyway.


If you can keep them above freezing, that should be fine. If you can't be
sure of the temp in the greenhouse never going below freezing, then a small
'frost beater' heater (if you have electricity) in the greenhouse, would be
good. We have a Meyer's lemon in our small conservatory greenhouse and
several panes blew out in the last storm but while it did take the cold and
the wind, it never got frost. That said, we had frost a few days before the
storm and the ice on the pond in front of that conservatory never thawed all
day but it did the next day. The conservatory isn't heated but it is well
planted up so may well give a very small among of micro-climate protection.
The Meyer's lemon was fine and Ray says that one year it did get the frost,
lost all its leaves and came back just fine. I'm telling you all this
because it has to be a question of degree (probably literally!) and I don't
want to encourage you to do anything that will endanger your trees. If you
feel confident that they will survive the usual lowest temp in your
greenhouse, then put them out. But if you live in an area which gets
prolonged successions of frosty days, I wouldn't risk it and most especially
not with young plants.
We very, very rarely get that here and have even had a Fuchsia boliviana
survive a day of frost here and there in the garden. Unfortunately, in that
particular instance, the amount of sun it got wasn't enough for it to flower
in the shelter of the tree canopy that kept the frost from it! It is always
interesting to experiment and we do it all the time but then it doesn't cost
us much to start again and we always have stock plants in reserve. Mind you,
taking cuttings as a precaution is a good thing for any gardener to do.

We have over wintered Salvia involucrata while S. confertiflora died and
there is a Gordonia growing outside which Ray was once told would *never*
survive outdoors in mainland Britain. But that is growing among a lot of
shelter from other things.
OTOH, I have grown things in my gardens in Jersey which are too tender to
grow outdoors here in most winters and which survived for several years -
making me feel very smug - only to have them wrecked by a couple of frosty
nights and days. Polygala, Pandorea and Leonotis are those that spring to
mind as particularly sad losses.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

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