On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:15:08 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:32:03 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:

Now I ask you provide the evidence that an overdose of warfarin "kills
rodents in the most horrendous manner imaginable"

PLONK him Franz. The guy is a troll.
--

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit;
Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:15:08 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:32:03 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:

Now I ask you provide the evidence that an overdose of warfarin "kills
rodents in the most horrendous manner imaginable"

PLONK him Franz. The guy is a troll.
--

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit;
Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:15:08 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:32:03 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:

Now I ask you provide the evidence that an overdose of warfarin "kills
rodents in the most horrendous manner imaginable"

PLONK him Franz. The guy is a troll.
--

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit;
Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:32:03 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 14:37:15 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 13:47:21 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:14:03 +0100, martin
wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:10:32 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Jaques d'Alltrades"
wrote
in
message
.. .


Warfarin-based poisons are not particularly unpleasant. The
victims
just
get weaker and weaker and lapse into a coma.

The Warfarin tends to prevent the blood clotting, and the
passage
of
food down the gut abrades the villi (a design feature to
allow
nutrients
to be absorbed through the walls of the blood vessels) and
the
animal
loses blood internally, and weakens and dies. There is no
pain
involved.

How do you know?

because it's used in humans as an anti clotting agent.

The village idiot mentality is astounding!

That sounds like the voice of experience.

Using a substance medicinally is not the same as using it to
kill.
If
you
fed enough Warfarin to a human to kill him would it cause pain?

Yes. It is a slow and agonizing death, rat or man would bleed to
death
from the inside. The fact that very minute doses of poison are
used
very successfully in medicine has nothing to do with it's use to
kill
something.

Somebody said, "There is no pain involved." and I asked how that
waas
known.
It seems now that there IS pain involved.

Precisely.

Now who's the idiot?

The one who thinks there is no pain involved because grandad uses it
to ease a heart condition!

It does not "ease a heart condition" and I have not ever heard it being
used
for that. *I*, not my granddad, have been using warfarin daily for
more
than a dozen years. *I* did once, by mistake, overuse it suffiently to
be
able to state categorically that there is no physical pain involved
before a
coma sets in.

I just don't believe the dummies coming out of the woodwork on this.
Why in the world do you think your medicine dosage of warfarin has any
connection at all with the dosage that kills rodents in the most
horrendous manner imaginable?
You alone have taken village idiots to
new heights of ignorance! sheesh......

Repeating nonsense ad inf does not convert it into a truth.

Quite. So you might as well stop repeating yourself :-)

I have provided you with the evidence that I experience no physical pain
when I had taken enough Warfarin to take me to the verge of a coma.

You have not provided evidence.

You've given anecdotal accounts ad nauseam of what you say is your
experience. That's neither evidence nor proof.

Over and out.

Had I
had any more, the most likely outcome would have been that I would have
become comatose quite soon, and would have died of brain haemorrage quite
soon after that. At what time would I have experienced this horrendously
painful death of which you keep talking?

Now I ask you provide the evidence that an overdose of warfarin "kills
rodents in the most horrendous manner imaginable"

I didn't say that, I merely asked how it was known that it would be a
painsless death. I might easily have asked how it was known that it would be
an horrendous death.

Mary

Franz

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:32:03 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 14:37:15 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 13:47:21 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:14:03 +0100, martin
wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:10:32 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Jaques d'Alltrades"
wrote
in
message
.. .


Warfarin-based poisons are not particularly unpleasant. The
victims
just
get weaker and weaker and lapse into a coma.

The Warfarin tends to prevent the blood clotting, and the
passage
of
food down the gut abrades the villi (a design feature to
allow
nutrients
to be absorbed through the walls of the blood vessels) and
the
animal
loses blood internally, and weakens and dies. There is no
pain
involved.

How do you know?

because it's used in humans as an anti clotting agent.

The village idiot mentality is astounding!

That sounds like the voice of experience.

Using a substance medicinally is not the same as using it to
kill.
If
you
fed enough Warfarin to a human to kill him would it cause pain?

Yes. It is a slow and agonizing death, rat or man would bleed to
death
from the inside. The fact that very minute doses of poison are
used
very successfully in medicine has nothing to do with it's use to
kill
something.

Somebody said, "There is no pain involved." and I asked how that
waas
known.
It seems now that there IS pain involved.

Precisely.

Now who's the idiot?

The one who thinks there is no pain involved because grandad uses it
to ease a heart condition!

It does not "ease a heart condition" and I have not ever heard it being
used
for that. *I*, not my granddad, have been using warfarin daily for
more
than a dozen years. *I* did once, by mistake, overuse it suffiently to
be
able to state categorically that there is no physical pain involved
before a
coma sets in.

I just don't believe the dummies coming out of the woodwork on this.
Why in the world do you think your medicine dosage of warfarin has any
connection at all with the dosage that kills rodents in the most
horrendous manner imaginable?
You alone have taken village idiots to
new heights of ignorance! sheesh......

Repeating nonsense ad inf does not convert it into a truth.

Quite. So you might as well stop repeating yourself :-)

I have provided you with the evidence that I experience no physical pain
when I had taken enough Warfarin to take me to the verge of a coma.

You have not provided evidence.

You've given anecdotal accounts ad nauseam of what you say is your
experience. That's neither evidence nor proof.

Over and out.

Had I
had any more, the most likely outcome would have been that I would have
become comatose quite soon, and would have died of brain haemorrage quite
soon after that. At what time would I have experienced this horrendously
painful death of which you keep talking?

Now I ask you provide the evidence that an overdose of warfarin "kills
rodents in the most horrendous manner imaginable"

I didn't say that, I merely asked how it was known that it would be a
painsless death. I might easily have asked how it was known that it would be
an horrendous death.

Mary

Franz

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:32:03 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 14:37:15 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 13:47:21 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:14:03 +0100, martin
wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:10:32 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Jaques d'Alltrades"
wrote
in
message
.. .


Warfarin-based poisons are not particularly unpleasant. The
victims
just
get weaker and weaker and lapse into a coma.

The Warfarin tends to prevent the blood clotting, and the
passage
of
food down the gut abrades the villi (a design feature to
allow
nutrients
to be absorbed through the walls of the blood vessels) and
the
animal
loses blood internally, and weakens and dies. There is no
pain
involved.

How do you know?

because it's used in humans as an anti clotting agent.

The village idiot mentality is astounding!

That sounds like the voice of experience.

Using a substance medicinally is not the same as using it to
kill.
If
you
fed enough Warfarin to a human to kill him would it cause pain?

Yes. It is a slow and agonizing death, rat or man would bleed to
death
from the inside. The fact that very minute doses of poison are
used
very successfully in medicine has nothing to do with it's use to
kill
something.

Somebody said, "There is no pain involved." and I asked how that
waas
known.
It seems now that there IS pain involved.

Precisely.

Now who's the idiot?

The one who thinks there is no pain involved because grandad uses it
to ease a heart condition!

It does not "ease a heart condition" and I have not ever heard it being
used
for that. *I*, not my granddad, have been using warfarin daily for
more
than a dozen years. *I* did once, by mistake, overuse it suffiently to
be
able to state categorically that there is no physical pain involved
before a
coma sets in.

I just don't believe the dummies coming out of the woodwork on this.
Why in the world do you think your medicine dosage of warfarin has any
connection at all with the dosage that kills rodents in the most
horrendous manner imaginable?
You alone have taken village idiots to
new heights of ignorance! sheesh......

Repeating nonsense ad inf does not convert it into a truth.

Quite. So you might as well stop repeating yourself :-)

I have provided you with the evidence that I experience no physical pain
when I had taken enough Warfarin to take me to the verge of a coma.

You have not provided evidence.

You've given anecdotal accounts ad nauseam of what you say is your
experience. That's neither evidence nor proof.

Over and out.

Had I
had any more, the most likely outcome would have been that I would have
become comatose quite soon, and would have died of brain haemorrage quite
soon after that. At what time would I have experienced this horrendously
painful death of which you keep talking?

Now I ask you provide the evidence that an overdose of warfarin "kills
rodents in the most horrendous manner imaginable"

I didn't say that, I merely asked how it was known that it would be a
painsless death. I might easily have asked how it was known that it would be
an horrendous death.

Mary

Franz

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:15:08 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:32:03 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:

Now I ask you provide the evidence that an overdose of warfarin "kills
rodents in the most horrendous manner imaginable"

PLONK him Franz. The guy is a troll.
--

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit;
Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:32:03 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 14:37:15 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 13:47:21 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:14:03 +0100, martin
wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:10:32 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Jaques d'Alltrades"
wrote
in
message
.. .


Warfarin-based poisons are not particularly unpleasant. The
victims
just
get weaker and weaker and lapse into a coma.

The Warfarin tends to prevent the blood clotting, and the
passage
of
food down the gut abrades the villi (a design feature to
allow
nutrients
to be absorbed through the walls of the blood vessels) and
the
animal
loses blood internally, and weakens and dies. There is no
pain
involved.

How do you know?

because it's used in humans as an anti clotting agent.

The village idiot mentality is astounding!

That sounds like the voice of experience.

Using a substance medicinally is not the same as using it to
kill.
If
you
fed enough Warfarin to a human to kill him would it cause pain?

Yes. It is a slow and agonizing death, rat or man would bleed to
death
from the inside. The fact that very minute doses of poison are
used
very successfully in medicine has nothing to do with it's use to
kill
something.

Somebody said, "There is no pain involved." and I asked how that
waas
known.
It seems now that there IS pain involved.

Precisely.

Now who's the idiot?

The one who thinks there is no pain involved because grandad uses it
to ease a heart condition!

It does not "ease a heart condition" and I have not ever heard it being
used
for that. *I*, not my granddad, have been using warfarin daily for
more
than a dozen years. *I* did once, by mistake, overuse it suffiently to
be
able to state categorically that there is no physical pain involved
before a
coma sets in.

I just don't believe the dummies coming out of the woodwork on this.
Why in the world do you think your medicine dosage of warfarin has any
connection at all with the dosage that kills rodents in the most
horrendous manner imaginable?
You alone have taken village idiots to
new heights of ignorance! sheesh......

Repeating nonsense ad inf does not convert it into a truth.

Quite. So you might as well stop repeating yourself :-)

I have provided you with the evidence that I experience no physical pain
when I had taken enough Warfarin to take me to the verge of a coma.

You have not provided evidence.

You've given anecdotal accounts ad nauseam of what you say is your
experience. That's neither evidence nor proof.

Over and out.

Had I
had any more, the most likely outcome would have been that I would have
become comatose quite soon, and would have died of brain haemorrage quite
soon after that. At what time would I have experienced this horrendously
painful death of which you keep talking?

Now I ask you provide the evidence that an overdose of warfarin "kills
rodents in the most horrendous manner imaginable"

I didn't say that, I merely asked how it was known that it would be a
painsless death. I might easily have asked how it was known that it would be
an horrendous death.

Mary

Franz

"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:10:28 GMT, Jaques d'Alltrades
wrote:

The message
from "Franz Heymann" contains these
words:

(Always set mousetraps facing the wall too.)

Why trap them? It does not cost much to feed them well and they do one
hell
of a lot less damage than cats.

I've had a box of rare books trashed by the little *******s......

They spread crap everywhere and thereby, diseases.

Try keeping your house a little cleaner then. Most of us would spot
mouse shit long before the messies started chewing our books.

I must admit that I thought the same ...

Mary

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:18:50 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Franz Heymann" contains these
words:

(Always set mousetraps facing the wall too.)

Why trap them? It does not cost much to feed them well and they do one
hell
of a lot less damage than cats.

I've had a box of rare books trashed by the little *******s......

They spread crap everywhere and thereby, diseases.

You're still alive ...

.... not all diseases are fatal.

Dog crap carries a parasite that leads to blindness, but does not
kill.
--

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit;
Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad

"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:10:28 GMT, Jaques d'Alltrades
wrote:

The message
from "Franz Heymann" contains these
words:

(Always set mousetraps facing the wall too.)

Why trap them? It does not cost much to feed them well and they do one
hell
of a lot less damage than cats.

I've had a box of rare books trashed by the little *******s......

They spread crap everywhere and thereby, diseases.

Try keeping your house a little cleaner then. Most of us would spot
mouse shit long before the messies started chewing our books.

I must admit that I thought the same ...

Mary

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:15:08 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:32:03 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:

Now I ask you provide the evidence that an overdose of warfarin "kills
rodents in the most horrendous manner imaginable"

PLONK him Franz. The guy is a troll.
--

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit;
Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:18:50 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Franz Heymann" contains these
words:

(Always set mousetraps facing the wall too.)

Why trap them? It does not cost much to feed them well and they do one
hell
of a lot less damage than cats.

I've had a box of rare books trashed by the little *******s......

They spread crap everywhere and thereby, diseases.

You're still alive ...

.... not all diseases are fatal.

Dog crap carries a parasite that leads to blindness, but does not
kill.
--

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit;
Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:25:01 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

Repeating nonsense ad inf does not convert it into a truth.

Quite. So you might as well stop repeating yourself :-)

I have provided you with the evidence that I experience no physical pain
when I had taken enough Warfarin to take me to the verge of a coma.

You have not provided evidence.

Of course he has. Franz is the evidence.


You've given anecdotal accounts ad nauseam of what you say is your
experience. That's neither evidence nor proof.

Franz gave first hand evidence. That is not anecdotal, but fact.
--

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit;
Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:25:01 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

Repeating nonsense ad inf does not convert it into a truth.

Quite. So you might as well stop repeating yourself :-)

I have provided you with the evidence that I experience no physical pain
when I had taken enough Warfarin to take me to the verge of a coma.

You have not provided evidence.

Of course he has. Franz is the evidence.


You've given anecdotal accounts ad nauseam of what you say is your
experience. That's neither evidence nor proof.

Franz gave first hand evidence. That is not anecdotal, but fact.
--

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit;
Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad