A friend of mine suggested having a go at making some organic beer, from
scratch. I hope he knows what he's doing.

Anyway, presumably we would need to grow some hops. Would anyone here know
about this, or what quantity of hops we'd need to make a decent quantity of
beer? Could I grow hops in tubs?

Thanks all, in anticipation!

Andrew

On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 21:13:18 -0000, "Andy Hunt"
wrote:

A friend of mine suggested having a go at making some organic beer, from
scratch. I hope he knows what he's doing.

Anyway, presumably we would need to grow some hops. Would anyone here know
about this, or what quantity of hops we'd need to make a decent quantity of
beer? Could I grow hops in tubs?

I don't see why not - the bigger problem would be where to put what
grows out of the pot!
My two year old Golden Hop practically covered one side of the house
before I upped it and moved it somewhere where it could ramble more
conveniently.

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

Anyway, presumably we would need to grow some hops. Would anyone here
know
about this, or what quantity of hops we'd need to make a decent quantity
of
beer? Could I grow hops in tubs?

I don't see why not - the bigger problem would be where to put what
grows out of the pot!
My two year old Golden Hop practically covered one side of the house
before I upped it and moved it somewhere where it could ramble more
conveniently.

I didn't realise it was a 'climbing' type plant. I think I may have just the
place for it! My mate says that "challenger" is a good strain of hop,
apparently. But then, he claims that the hop is a close relative of
cannabis, so I'm not really sure how to take his advice!

Andrew

On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 23:44:53 -0000, "Andy Hunt"
wrote:



Anyway, presumably we would need to grow some hops. Would anyone here
know
about this, or what quantity of hops we'd need to make a decent quantity
of
beer? Could I grow hops in tubs?

I don't see why not - the bigger problem would be where to put what
grows out of the pot!
My two year old Golden Hop practically covered one side of the house
before I upped it and moved it somewhere where it could ramble more
conveniently.

I didn't realise it was a 'climbing' type plant. I think I may have just the
place for it! My mate says that "challenger" is a good strain of hop,
apparently. But then, he claims that the hop is a close relative of
cannabis, so I'm not really sure how to take his advice!

I think, at least for the variety I have, that 'rampant' would be a
more accurate term!

Then again, I've seen fields of hops all sitting prettily on frames -
so perhaps there are varieties that are less vigorous than
others....or it could be entirely due to the method of cultivation.

I wouldn't worry too much about its relations... the potato has some
extremely nasty cousins, as do many other plants we now quite happily
munch on.

My hop was selected for its colour - but I pretty sure that there are
varieties out there bred for flavour, so your friend might be better
placed to advise you on that score.

If all else fails you can always cut them down when the hops are still
green and trail them round the house. They smell wonderful, and mine
are still in good nick ( though much browner ) some six months down
the line.

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

Anyway, presumably we would need to grow some hops. Would anyone here
know
about this, or what quantity of hops we'd need to make a decent quantity
of
beer? Could I grow hops in tubs?

I don't see why not - the bigger problem would be where to put what
grows out of the pot!
My two year old Golden Hop practically covered one side of the house
before I upped it and moved it somewhere where it could ramble more
conveniently.

I didn't realise it was a 'climbing' type plant. I think I may have just the
place for it! My mate says that "challenger" is a good strain of hop,
apparently. But then, he claims that the hop is a close relative of
cannabis, so I'm not really sure how to take his advice!

Andrew

On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 23:44:53 -0000, "Andy Hunt"
wrote:



Anyway, presumably we would need to grow some hops. Would anyone here
know
about this, or what quantity of hops we'd need to make a decent quantity
of
beer? Could I grow hops in tubs?

I don't see why not - the bigger problem would be where to put what
grows out of the pot!
My two year old Golden Hop practically covered one side of the house
before I upped it and moved it somewhere where it could ramble more
conveniently.

I didn't realise it was a 'climbing' type plant. I think I may have just the
place for it! My mate says that "challenger" is a good strain of hop,
apparently. But then, he claims that the hop is a close relative of
cannabis, so I'm not really sure how to take his advice!

I think, at least for the variety I have, that 'rampant' would be a
more accurate term!

Then again, I've seen fields of hops all sitting prettily on frames -
so perhaps there are varieties that are less vigorous than
others....or it could be entirely due to the method of cultivation.

I wouldn't worry too much about its relations... the potato has some
extremely nasty cousins, as do many other plants we now quite happily
munch on.

My hop was selected for its colour - but I pretty sure that there are
varieties out there bred for flavour, so your friend might be better
placed to advise you on that score.

If all else fails you can always cut them down when the hops are still
green and trail them round the house. They smell wonderful, and mine
are still in good nick ( though much browner ) some six months down
the line.

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

The message nMN0c.2447$zu.2073@newsfe1-win
from "Andy Hunt" contains these words:
A friend of mine suggested having a go at making some organic beer, from
scratch. I hope he knows what he's doing.

This is not something to attempt lightly if you mean *REALLY* from
scratch. You need strictly controlled temperatures when chitting the
barley and malting it, also it must be turned (gently) regularly or it
goes sour.

Then when you mash it, the maltose has to be extracted within a very
tight temperature band, about ±1°F for lager malt and ±1°C for English
type beer malt.

It is much more sensible to buy spray-dried malt extract.

Anyway, presumably we would need to grow some hops. Would anyone here know
about this, or what quantity of hops we'd need to make a decent quantity of
beer? Could I grow hops in tubs?

You can buy dried hops from many chemists. You need about four ounces of
the dried hops for five gallons of beer.

However, hops are easy to grow, are fairly decorative in (say) a big
hedge, but in a small garden might present a bit of a problem, as the
vine will grow to a height of about twenty feet. (They are perenniel,
and die back every year, to regrow with a lot of new thugs^H^H^H^mates.

At Harvest Festival *SOME* of your local clergy will be very happy to
receive a bundle from you for decoration.

(My mother used to see the hops I had drying in the sun on the lawn and
lecture me: "You leave some of those for Harvest Festival, my son, or
there'll be trouble!"

Pan round to eight-foot hedge literally choked with hops - enough to
bedeck St Paul's - inside and out......

Best of luck with the beer. Oh, a word of warning: if you are going to
use any sugar in the brew, check on one of the proprietory beer kits how
much they recommend. ON NO ACCOUNT exceed this as a ratio to the malt
they use, as too great a proportion of sugar in a malt brew will lead to
severe headaches and can kill you.

Thanks all, in anticipation!

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

The message r_P0c.2479$zu.351@newsfe1-win
from "Andy Hunt" contains these words:

I don't see why not - the bigger problem would be where to put what
grows out of the pot!
My two year old Golden Hop practically covered one side of the house
before I upped it and moved it somewhere where it could ramble more
conveniently.

I didn't realise it was a 'climbing' type plant. I think I may have just the
place for it! My mate says that "challenger" is a good strain of hop,
apparently. But then, he claims that the hop is a close relative of
cannabis, so I'm not really sure how to take his advice!

Hum. Google for hops and look at some of the pics of hopfields. Rather
like acres of fifteen or twenty-foot rows of beans......

You'd need a really decent-sized planter - I'd say about 500 cm, and
feed it well with something like Tomorite.

Hop (Humulus lupulus) is a relative of the mulberry. Hemp used to be
considered to be a relative of the mulberry, but is now more commonly
placed in its own group. Or he might have got the idea from an old use
of the word 'hops' which is/was slang for opium.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

The message nMN0c.2447$zu.2073@newsfe1-win
from "Andy Hunt" contains these words:
A friend of mine suggested having a go at making some organic beer, from
scratch. I hope he knows what he's doing.

This is not something to attempt lightly if you mean *REALLY* from
scratch. You need strictly controlled temperatures when chitting the
barley and malting it, also it must be turned (gently) regularly or it
goes sour.

Then when you mash it, the maltose has to be extracted within a very
tight temperature band, about ±1°F for lager malt and ±1°C for English
type beer malt.

It is much more sensible to buy spray-dried malt extract.

Anyway, presumably we would need to grow some hops. Would anyone here know
about this, or what quantity of hops we'd need to make a decent quantity of
beer? Could I grow hops in tubs?

You can buy dried hops from many chemists. You need about four ounces of
the dried hops for five gallons of beer.

However, hops are easy to grow, are fairly decorative in (say) a big
hedge, but in a small garden might present a bit of a problem, as the
vine will grow to a height of about twenty feet. (They are perenniel,
and die back every year, to regrow with a lot of new thugs^H^H^H^mates.

At Harvest Festival *SOME* of your local clergy will be very happy to
receive a bundle from you for decoration.

(My mother used to see the hops I had drying in the sun on the lawn and
lecture me: "You leave some of those for Harvest Festival, my son, or
there'll be trouble!"

Pan round to eight-foot hedge literally choked with hops - enough to
bedeck St Paul's - inside and out......

Best of luck with the beer. Oh, a word of warning: if you are going to
use any sugar in the brew, check on one of the proprietory beer kits how
much they recommend. ON NO ACCOUNT exceed this as a ratio to the malt
they use, as too great a proportion of sugar in a malt brew will lead to
severe headaches and can kill you.

Thanks all, in anticipation!

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

The message r_P0c.2479$zu.351@newsfe1-win
from "Andy Hunt" contains these words:

I don't see why not - the bigger problem would be where to put what
grows out of the pot!
My two year old Golden Hop practically covered one side of the house
before I upped it and moved it somewhere where it could ramble more
conveniently.

I didn't realise it was a 'climbing' type plant. I think I may have just the
place for it! My mate says that "challenger" is a good strain of hop,
apparently. But then, he claims that the hop is a close relative of
cannabis, so I'm not really sure how to take his advice!

Hum. Google for hops and look at some of the pics of hopfields. Rather
like acres of fifteen or twenty-foot rows of beans......

You'd need a really decent-sized planter - I'd say about 500 cm, and
feed it well with something like Tomorite.

Hop (Humulus lupulus) is a relative of the mulberry. Hemp used to be
considered to be a relative of the mulberry, but is now more commonly
placed in its own group. Or he might have got the idea from an old use
of the word 'hops' which is/was slang for opium.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

This is not something to attempt lightly if you mean *REALLY* from
scratch. You need strictly controlled temperatures when chitting the
barley and malting it, also it must be turned (gently) regularly or it
goes sour.

Then when you mash it, the maltose has to be extracted within a very
tight temperature band, about ±1°F for lager malt and ±1°C for English
type beer malt.

It is much more sensible to buy spray-dried malt extract.

I think the purchased malt might have to be the one!


You can buy dried hops from many chemists. You need about four ounces of
the dried hops for five gallons of beer.

Noted!


However, hops are easy to grow, are fairly decorative in (say) a big
hedge, but in a small garden might present a bit of a problem, as the
vine will grow to a height of about twenty feet. (They are perenniel,
and die back every year, to regrow with a lot of new thugs^H^H^H^mates.

Might be OK - I've been looking for something to climb up the back of my
house, it's not the best looking back of a house you've ever seen. Could be
just the job! And if it's fast-growing . . . all the better!


Best of luck with the beer. Oh, a word of warning: if you are going to
use any sugar in the brew, check on one of the proprietory beer kits how
much they recommend. ON NO ACCOUNT exceed this as a ratio to the malt
they use, as too great a proportion of sugar in a malt brew will lead to
severe headaches and can kill you.

Blimey . . . I had no idea. Right, I shall watch out for that one!

We've got a really good real ale pub here in Bury . . . I was in there last
night, and had a pint of Ramsbottom Brewery "Windfarmer" - even beer is
going renewable these days. 'Twas a lot better than a brew they had in their
called "Old Disreputable", in any case!

Is it best to grow the hops from seed, or buy a vine from somewhere?

Andrew

"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in message
...
snip
Best of luck with the beer. Oh, a word of warning: if you are going to
use any sugar in the brew, check on one of the proprietory beer kits how
much they recommend. ON NO ACCOUNT exceed this as a ratio to the malt
they use, as too great a proportion of sugar in a malt brew will lead to
severe headaches and can kill you.
snip

Are you sure about this?
Given that sugar is turned to alchohol by the yeast, which won't ferment
above a certain concentration of alchohol, all you risk AFAIK is that not
all the sugars released by mashing are turned to alchohol.
This will tend to give you a sweet beer, but not AFAIK a deadly brew.

What is this fatal product of which you speak?

ISTR in my student days beefing up malt extract beers with additional sugar,
and never killed anyone.

A slightly puzzled

Dave R

"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in message
...
snip
Best of luck with the beer. Oh, a word of warning: if you are going to
use any sugar in the brew, check on one of the proprietory beer kits how
much they recommend. ON NO ACCOUNT exceed this as a ratio to the malt
they use, as too great a proportion of sugar in a malt brew will lead to
severe headaches and can kill you.
snip

Are you sure about this?
Given that sugar is turned to alchohol by the yeast, which won't ferment
above a certain concentration of alchohol, all you risk AFAIK is that not
all the sugars released by mashing are turned to alchohol.
This will tend to give you a sweet beer, but not AFAIK a deadly brew.

What is this fatal product of which you speak?

ISTR in my student days beefing up malt extract beers with additional sugar,
and never killed anyone.

A slightly puzzled

Dave R

"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in message
...
The message nMN0c.2447$zu.2073@newsfe1-win
from "Andy Hunt" contains these words:
A friend of mine suggested having a go at making some organic beer, from
scratch. I hope he knows what he's doing.

I presume that you are proposing to grow your own barley, if you are
starting from scratch? You will probably need quite a large plot to ensure
you have enough grain for several attempts at beer making - you should
accept that you may not get it right first time :-)

This is not something to attempt lightly if you mean *REALLY* from
scratch. You need strictly controlled temperatures when chitting the
barley and malting it, also it must be turned (gently) regularly or it
goes sour.

Not rocket science - at one time loads of smallholders made their own beer.

Malting the barley is a difficult part of the process because you need to
control the temperature and humidity and turn the grain over a long period.
Not something you can do in a couple of hours, or leave for a few days then
come back to.
However there is an excellent description on how to malt barley on page 69
of "The Complete Book of Self Sufficiency" by John Seymour ISBN
0-7513-0426-3
This description implies to me that 'kilning' the barly (cooking it at above
120 F but below 140 F to prevent it growing further) is more difficult than
the initial malting.
It is also important to get the colour right, from pale to dark, depending
on the beer you want to produce.
You will also need some kind of mill to crush the malt before brewing.

So you will need a certain amount of infrastructure - a plot to grow the
barly, a floor to malt the barley, a suitable kiln or oven to cook the
malted barley, and a coarse mill to crush the malt.

You will also need to dedicate quality time to it - malting seems to take
about 14 days.


Then when you mash it, the maltose has to be extracted within a very
tight temperature band, about ±1°F for lager malt and ±1°C for English
type beer malt.

Here is where Rusty/Jaques and I part company.
Real home brewers use fresh malt, and can make outstanding beer with home
mashing. You can get mashing tubs with electric heaters and thermostats
which can turn the art into more of a science. You may not get the same
extraction rate as a commercial brewery, but then you just accept that you
are going to be a little less efficient and allow for that in the
quantities.

If the growing and malting is too complex, find a supplier of organic
crushed malt.

e.g. from http://www.beersunlimited.co.uk/grains.html

"Also offered is the organically grown Golden Promise, primarily grown for
distillation but which produces excellent beers."

It is much more sensible to buy spray-dried malt extract.

The (not good but vaguely competent) brewer in me recoils from this heresy
:-))

snip

Cheers

Dave R

"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in message
...
snip
Best of luck with the beer. Oh, a word of warning: if you are going to
use any sugar in the brew, check on one of the proprietory beer kits how
much they recommend. ON NO ACCOUNT exceed this as a ratio to the malt
they use, as too great a proportion of sugar in a malt brew will lead to
severe headaches and can kill you.
snip

Are you sure about this?
Given that sugar is turned to alchohol by the yeast, which won't ferment
above a certain concentration of alchohol, all you risk AFAIK is that not
all the sugars released by mashing are turned to alchohol.
This will tend to give you a sweet beer, but not AFAIK a deadly brew.

What is this fatal product of which you speak?

ISTR in my student days beefing up malt extract beers with additional sugar,
and never killed anyone.

A slightly puzzled

Dave R