"nightjar .uk.com" nightjar@insert_my_surname_here wrote in message
.. .

"Neil Jones" wrote in message
...
I've cross posted this to uk.rec.gardening and uk.d-i-y because I
believe it's on topic for both groups.

I'm redesigning my back garden at the moment and my thoughts have turned
to lighting. I would like to illuminate the terrace which is just to the
rear of the house, but also I'm considering some path lighting and maybe
some accent lighting to highlight specimen trees, planting groups etc.
This would mainly be for use during the summer but occasionally we would
switch the lights on at other times, for effect.

I live in a rural village so I'm conscious of light pollution and don't
really want to brighten the night sky which could affect other locals.

I'll discuss my plans with my neighbours before I go ahead but I have a
number of questions initially:-

What is best practice regarding this kind of lighting?

Mains voltage, low voltage or a mixture?

I favour mains voltage, which is perfectly safe if you follow the correct
wiring practices and protect the circuit with a 30mA RCD or RCBO (dearer
but
only one circuit trips at a time). I find that low voltage lamps don't
seem
to have much of a life expectancy. However, I would consider some of the
solar powered LED lamps for path edge markers. They don't give much light,
but do show you where the path is.

My favourite light for something like your terrace is a low energy
floodlamp, made for commercial sign illumination, which I buy from Newey &
Eyre. They use 2 x 9W (or 4 x 9W, also 4 x 9W with an integral photocell)
lamps in a floodlight format, with very good cut-off characteristics, so
you
don't get light spill where you don't want it. Mounted below eye level,
one
of those washes the ground with light, which allows you to see to walk
over
quite a large area. Mounted high, you get can a good area illumination
from
one.


Colin

I'm also looking for some lighting like this, do you know the manufacturer
?, I can't find a Newey & Eyre website (that works) ?

Chris

For accent lighting, I suggest low energy bulkhead lights. I use those
quite
a lot outside and, if I don't want the light going in a particular
direction
from one, I coat the relevant bit of the inside of the cover with a
metallic
spray paint.

The main thing to remember is that outside, you need very little light to
be
able to see quite well, so don't overdo the amount of lighting.

Colin Bignell

"nightjar .uk.com" nightjar@insert_my_surname_here wrote in message
.. .

"Neil Jones" wrote in message
...
I've cross posted this to uk.rec.gardening and uk.d-i-y because I
believe it's on topic for both groups.

I'm redesigning my back garden at the moment and my thoughts have turned
to lighting. I would like to illuminate the terrace which is just to the
rear of the house, but also I'm considering some path lighting and maybe
some accent lighting to highlight specimen trees, planting groups etc.
This would mainly be for use during the summer but occasionally we would
switch the lights on at other times, for effect.

I live in a rural village so I'm conscious of light pollution and don't
really want to brighten the night sky which could affect other locals.

I'll discuss my plans with my neighbours before I go ahead but I have a
number of questions initially:-

What is best practice regarding this kind of lighting?

Mains voltage, low voltage or a mixture?

I favour mains voltage, which is perfectly safe if you follow the correct
wiring practices and protect the circuit with a 30mA RCD or RCBO (dearer
but
only one circuit trips at a time). I find that low voltage lamps don't
seem
to have much of a life expectancy. However, I would consider some of the
solar powered LED lamps for path edge markers. They don't give much light,
but do show you where the path is.

My favourite light for something like your terrace is a low energy
floodlamp, made for commercial sign illumination, which I buy from Newey &
Eyre. They use 2 x 9W (or 4 x 9W, also 4 x 9W with an integral photocell)
lamps in a floodlight format, with very good cut-off characteristics, so
you
don't get light spill where you don't want it. Mounted below eye level,
one
of those washes the ground with light, which allows you to see to walk
over
quite a large area. Mounted high, you get can a good area illumination
from
one.


Colin

I'm also looking for some lighting like this, do you know the manufacturer
?, I can't find a Newey & Eyre website (that works) ?

Chris

For accent lighting, I suggest low energy bulkhead lights. I use those
quite
a lot outside and, if I don't want the light going in a particular
direction
from one, I coat the relevant bit of the inside of the cover with a
metallic
spray paint.

The main thing to remember is that outside, you need very little light to
be
able to see quite well, so don't overdo the amount of lighting.

Colin Bignell

"Neil Jones" wrote in message
...
I've cross posted this to uk.rec.gardening and uk.d-i-y because I
believe it's on topic for both groups.

I'm redesigning my back garden at the moment and my thoughts have turned
to lighting. I would like to illuminate the terrace which is just to the
rear of the house, but also I'm considering some path lighting and maybe
some accent lighting to highlight specimen trees, planting groups etc.
This would mainly be for use during the summer but occasionally we would
switch the lights on at other times, for effect.

I live in a rural village so I'm conscious of light pollution and don't
really want to brighten the night sky which could affect other locals.

I'll discuss my plans with my neighbours before I go ahead but I have a
number of questions initially:-

What is best practice regarding this kind of lighting?

Mains voltage, low voltage or a mixture?

I favour mains voltage, which is perfectly safe if you follow the correct
wiring practices and protect the circuit with a 30mA RCD or RCBO (dearer but
only one circuit trips at a time). I find that low voltage lamps don't seem
to have much of a life expectancy. However, I would consider some of the
solar powered LED lamps for path edge markers. They don't give much light,
but do show you where the path is.

My favourite light for something like your terrace is a low energy
floodlamp, made for commercial sign illumination, which I buy from Newey &
Eyre. They use 2 x 9W (or 4 x 9W, also 4 x 9W with an integral photocell)
lamps in a floodlight format, with very good cut-off characteristics, so you
don't get light spill where you don't want it. Mounted below eye level, one
of those washes the ground with light, which allows you to see to walk over
quite a large area. Mounted high, you get can a good area illumination from
one.

For accent lighting, I suggest low energy bulkhead lights. I use those quite
a lot outside and, if I don't want the light going in a particular direction
from one, I coat the relevant bit of the inside of the cover with a metallic
spray paint.

The main thing to remember is that outside, you need very little light to be
able to see quite well, so don't overdo the amount of lighting.

Colin Bignell

Jaques d'Alltrades wrote in message ...

Have you thought about those individual solar-powered units? Most garden
centres and many DIY shops stock them.

They give enough light to see the paths by, and any hedgehogs, cats or
whatnot, waiting to trip you up. Light pollution isn't an issue with
these....

I gather that light isnt much of an issue with them either.

Regards, NT

Jaques d'Alltrades wrote in message ...

Have you thought about those individual solar-powered units? Most garden
centres and many DIY shops stock them.

They give enough light to see the paths by, and any hedgehogs, cats or
whatnot, waiting to trip you up. Light pollution isn't an issue with
these....

I gather that light isnt much of an issue with them either.

Regards, NT

"Neil Jones" wrote in message ...
I've cross posted this to uk.rec.gardening and uk.d-i-y because I
believe it's on topic for both groups.

I'm redesigning my back garden at the moment and my thoughts have turned
to lighting. I would like to illuminate the terrace which is just to the
rear of the house, but also I'm considering some path lighting and maybe
some accent lighting to highlight specimen trees, planting groups etc.
This would mainly be for use during the summer but occasionally we would
switch the lights on at other times, for effect.

I live in a rural village so I'm conscious of light pollution and don't
really want to brighten the night sky which could affect other locals.

I'll discuss my plans with my neighbours before I go ahead but I have a
number of questions initially:-

What is best practice regarding this kind of lighting?

Mains voltage, low voltage or a mixture?

Is this a daft idea and I should forget about it?

Many thanks

Neil


Well, some good qs. Firstly light pollution: its a relevant but
overused term. Sending light up into the sky is wasteful, but
'pollution' is really a misnomer. If vast amounts of light are sent
upwards, it reduces visibility a bit for astronomers. Hardly what one
would seriously call pollution, but waste.

The prime way to do this is to put uplighters under tree canopies.
With full canopies there will be almost no light escape upwards, with
thin canopies there will be some, but frankly its all fairly trivial.

Equally one can put small CFLs in among shrubs bushes etc to light
them up nicely. Very low powers work well.

Mains or LT? It basically comes down to total project cost, what you
can do safely, and reliability. Mains lighting has fault modes that
render it unusable, whereas with an LT system those fault modes just
wouldnt be a problem. OTOH CFLs are normally found as mains voltage.
12v lights will normally be halogen or fluorescent. 12v CFLs do exist,
but expect to pay much more for them, and have to search to find them.


For see your way round lighting, several small low level lights are
good. One big high up downlighter works but doesnt look good, and
gobbles power.

CFLs and fluorecsents are the most efficient, but perform poorly in
the depths of winter unless you get tubes specifically intended for
cold working.

Outdoor lighting is much more fault prone than indoor, as it lives in
a far harsher environment, so I would recommend putting the lights on
several switches, so that a fault only takes out a percentage of them,
not the lot.

If you buy decorative garden lights, you can usually add some
reflector pieces and cut the bulb power right back for the same amount
of wanted lighting. They are often not well designed in that respect.
Also never use steel screws in outdoor fittings: substitute plastic
ones, as long as they dont heat up, or wire ties, etc.


Regards, NT

On Fri, 5 Mar 2004 20:07:04 -0000, in uk.d-i-y "Chris and Patsy"
strung together this:

My favourite light for something like your terrace is a low energy
floodlamp, made for commercial sign illumination, which I buy from Newey &
Eyre. They use 2 x 9W (or 4 x 9W, also 4 x 9W with an integral photocell)
lamps in a floodlight format, with very good cut-off characteristics, so
you
don't get light spill where you don't want it. Mounted below eye level,
one
of those washes the ground with light, which allows you to see to walk
over
quite a large area. Mounted high, you get can a good area illumination
from
one.


Colin

I'm also looking for some lighting like this, do you know the manufacturer
?, I can't find a Newey & Eyre website (that works) ?

Have a look here, on page 27. Most wholesalers will do something
similar. Most probably these exact ones actually.
http://www.greenbrook.co.uk/lightcat.pdf
Or the PW range on this page.
http://tinyurl.com/2fshk
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

"Neil Jones" wrote in message ...
I've cross posted this to uk.rec.gardening and uk.d-i-y because I
believe it's on topic for both groups.

I'm redesigning my back garden at the moment and my thoughts have turned
to lighting. I would like to illuminate the terrace which is just to the
rear of the house, but also I'm considering some path lighting and maybe
some accent lighting to highlight specimen trees, planting groups etc.
This would mainly be for use during the summer but occasionally we would
switch the lights on at other times, for effect.

I live in a rural village so I'm conscious of light pollution and don't
really want to brighten the night sky which could affect other locals.

I'll discuss my plans with my neighbours before I go ahead but I have a
number of questions initially:-

What is best practice regarding this kind of lighting?

Mains voltage, low voltage or a mixture?

Is this a daft idea and I should forget about it?

Many thanks

Neil


Well, some good qs. Firstly light pollution: its a relevant but
overused term. Sending light up into the sky is wasteful, but
'pollution' is really a misnomer. If vast amounts of light are sent
upwards, it reduces visibility a bit for astronomers. Hardly what one
would seriously call pollution, but waste.

The prime way to do this is to put uplighters under tree canopies.
With full canopies there will be almost no light escape upwards, with
thin canopies there will be some, but frankly its all fairly trivial.

Equally one can put small CFLs in among shrubs bushes etc to light
them up nicely. Very low powers work well.

Mains or LT? It basically comes down to total project cost, what you
can do safely, and reliability. Mains lighting has fault modes that
render it unusable, whereas with an LT system those fault modes just
wouldnt be a problem. OTOH CFLs are normally found as mains voltage.
12v lights will normally be halogen or fluorescent. 12v CFLs do exist,
but expect to pay much more for them, and have to search to find them.


For see your way round lighting, several small low level lights are
good. One big high up downlighter works but doesnt look good, and
gobbles power.

CFLs and fluorecsents are the most efficient, but perform poorly in
the depths of winter unless you get tubes specifically intended for
cold working.

Outdoor lighting is much more fault prone than indoor, as it lives in
a far harsher environment, so I would recommend putting the lights on
several switches, so that a fault only takes out a percentage of them,
not the lot.

If you buy decorative garden lights, you can usually add some
reflector pieces and cut the bulb power right back for the same amount
of wanted lighting. They are often not well designed in that respect.
Also never use steel screws in outdoor fittings: substitute plastic
ones, as long as they dont heat up, or wire ties, etc.


Regards, NT

On Fri, 5 Mar 2004 20:07:04 -0000, in uk.d-i-y "Chris and Patsy"
strung together this:

My favourite light for something like your terrace is a low energy
floodlamp, made for commercial sign illumination, which I buy from Newey &
Eyre. They use 2 x 9W (or 4 x 9W, also 4 x 9W with an integral photocell)
lamps in a floodlight format, with very good cut-off characteristics, so
you
don't get light spill where you don't want it. Mounted below eye level,
one
of those washes the ground with light, which allows you to see to walk
over
quite a large area. Mounted high, you get can a good area illumination
from
one.


Colin

I'm also looking for some lighting like this, do you know the manufacturer
?, I can't find a Newey & Eyre website (that works) ?

Have a look here, on page 27. Most wholesalers will do something
similar. Most probably these exact ones actually.
http://www.greenbrook.co.uk/lightcat.pdf
Or the PW range on this page.
http://tinyurl.com/2fshk
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

Neil Jones wrote:

I've cross posted this to uk.rec.gardening and uk.d-i-y because I
believe it's on topic for both groups.

I'm redesigning my back garden at the moment and my thoughts have turned
to lighting. I would like to illuminate the terrace which is just to the
rear of the house, but also I'm considering some path lighting and maybe
some accent lighting to highlight specimen trees, planting groups etc.
This would mainly be for use during the summer but occasionally we would
switch the lights on at other times, for effect.

I live in a rural village so I'm conscious of light pollution and don't
really want to brighten the night sky which could affect other locals.

I'll discuss my plans with my neighbours before I go ahead but I have a
number of questions initially:-

What is best practice regarding this kind of lighting?


Somethiung that your neighbours can take out with a .22 air rifle.

Some ******t has ruined a lisetd building rtound here by lettong an
architect loose: His garden resembles tescos car park under floodlights,
with weird modern scultures dotted around like giant turds. You can no
longer see teh stars, all you can see is this gahsltly glow in the sky.

Fortunately I have a friend with a rabbit rifle. One fine night...and
the next door place burnt almost down a few years back...



Mains voltage, low voltage or a mixture?

Is this a daft idea and I should forget about it?

Many thanks

Neil

On Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:28:30 -0000, "Neil Jones"
wrote:


I live in a rural village so I'm conscious of light pollution and don't
really want to brighten the night sky which could affect other locals.

I'll discuss my plans with my neighbours before I go ahead but I have a
number of questions initially:-

What is best practice regarding this kind of lighting?

In a rural area? - just don't do it. Just my 2p worth.
Rod

Weed my email address to reply
http://website.lineone.net/~rodcraddock/index.html

In article ,
(N. Thornton) wrote:

"Neil Jones" wrote in message
...
I've cross posted this to uk.rec.gardening and uk.d-i-y because I
believe it's on topic for both groups.

I'm redesigning my back garden at the moment and my thoughts have turned
to lighting. I would like to illuminate the terrace which is just to the
rear of the house, but also I'm considering some path lighting and maybe
some accent lighting to highlight specimen trees, planting groups etc.
This would mainly be for use during the summer but occasionally we would
switch the lights on at other times, for effect.

I live in a rural village so I'm conscious of light pollution and don't
really want to brighten the night sky which could affect other locals.

I'll discuss my plans with my neighbours before I go ahead but I have a
number of questions initially:-

What is best practice regarding this kind of lighting?

Mains voltage, low voltage or a mixture?

Is this a daft idea and I should forget about it?

Many thanks

Neil


Well, some good qs. Firstly light pollution: its a relevant but
overused term. Sending light up into the sky is wasteful, but
'pollution' is really a misnomer. If vast amounts of light are sent
upwards, it reduces visibility a bit for astronomers. Hardly what one
would seriously call pollution, but waste.


Utter ********.

When I was 10 I could stand in my back garden at midnight and see an
amazing starfield, with the Milky Way slashing across the sky like a
great neon light. Nothing to do with astronomy and everything to do with
being awestruck by the majesty of creation.

Kids don't see that now (I live in the same house, have the same back
garden) because the street lights don't go out at 11:30 anymore, every
house has a security floodlight and the school playing ground nearly
half a mile away has floodlights that are sometimes on all night. The
garages near my house are now lit up all night as well and the main road
has much brighter lights.

There is nothing over-used about the term light pollution.

(And to the original poster: make sure they are beautiful and never have
them on un-necessarily)

--
"Noah's Ark is a problem...We'll have to call
it early quantum state phenomenon--
Only way to fit five-thousand
species of mammal on the same boat"

"nightjar .uk.com" nightjar@insert_my_surname_here wrote in message
.. .

"Neil Jones" wrote in message
...
I've cross posted this to uk.rec.gardening and uk.d-i-y because I
believe it's on topic for both groups.

I'm redesigning my back garden at the moment and my thoughts have turned
to lighting. I would like to illuminate the terrace which is just to the
rear of the house, but also I'm considering some path lighting and maybe
some accent lighting to highlight specimen trees, planting groups etc.
This would mainly be for use during the summer but occasionally we would
switch the lights on at other times, for effect.

I live in a rural village so I'm conscious of light pollution and don't
really want to brighten the night sky which could affect other locals.

I'll discuss my plans with my neighbours before I go ahead but I have a
number of questions initially:-

What is best practice regarding this kind of lighting?

Mains voltage, low voltage or a mixture?

I favour mains voltage, which is perfectly safe if you follow the correct
wiring practices and protect the circuit with a 30mA RCD or RCBO (dearer
but
only one circuit trips at a time). I find that low voltage lamps don't
seem
to have much of a life expectancy. However, I would consider some of the
solar powered LED lamps for path edge markers. They don't give much light,
but do show you where the path is.

My favourite light for something like your terrace is a low energy
floodlamp, made for commercial sign illumination, which I buy from Newey &
Eyre. They use 2 x 9W (or 4 x 9W, also 4 x 9W with an integral photocell)
lamps in a floodlight format, with very good cut-off characteristics, so
you
don't get light spill where you don't want it. Mounted below eye level,
one
of those washes the ground with light, which allows you to see to walk
over
quite a large area. Mounted high, you get can a good area illumination
from
one.


Colin

I'm also looking for some lighting like this, do you know the manufacturer
?, I can't find a Newey & Eyre website (that works) ?

Chris

For accent lighting, I suggest low energy bulkhead lights. I use those
quite
a lot outside and, if I don't want the light going in a particular
direction
from one, I coat the relevant bit of the inside of the cover with a
metallic
spray paint.

The main thing to remember is that outside, you need very little light to
be
able to see quite well, so don't overdo the amount of lighting.

Colin Bignell

The message
from (N. Thornton) contains these words:

Well, some good qs. Firstly light pollution: its a relevant but
overused term. Sending light up into the sky is wasteful, but
'pollution' is really a misnomer. If vast amounts of light are sent
upwards, it reduces visibility a bit for astronomers. Hardly what one
would seriously call pollution, but waste.

I'd call it pollution. Waste as well, but the main objection is the
local (and when a lot of people carelessly beam light upwards, general)
masking of the sky at night.

IMO a very selfish and inconsiderate way to act. It doesn't reduce
visibility 'a bit', but has caused observatories to pack their bags and
move.

I had an eleven-year-old staying with me in rural Norfolk some years
ago. He came from Greater London, and had NEVER seen the stars. His
wonder at the firmament was magical.

The prime way to do this is to put uplighters under tree canopies.
With full canopies there will be almost no light escape upwards, with
thin canopies there will be some, but frankly its all fairly trivial.

It depends where your neighbours are, and whether they are
inconvenienced by it when you make judgements on whether it's trivial or
not.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

Neil Jones wrote:

I've cross posted this to uk.rec.gardening and uk.d-i-y because I
believe it's on topic for both groups.

I'm redesigning my back garden at the moment and my thoughts have turned
to lighting. I would like to illuminate the terrace which is just to the
rear of the house, but also I'm considering some path lighting and maybe
some accent lighting to highlight specimen trees, planting groups etc.
This would mainly be for use during the summer but occasionally we would
switch the lights on at other times, for effect.

I live in a rural village so I'm conscious of light pollution and don't
really want to brighten the night sky which could affect other locals.

I'll discuss my plans with my neighbours before I go ahead but I have a
number of questions initially:-

What is best practice regarding this kind of lighting?


Somethiung that your neighbours can take out with a .22 air rifle.

Some ******t has ruined a lisetd building rtound here by lettong an
architect loose: His garden resembles tescos car park under floodlights,
with weird modern scultures dotted around like giant turds. You can no
longer see teh stars, all you can see is this gahsltly glow in the sky.

Fortunately I have a friend with a rabbit rifle. One fine night...and
the next door place burnt almost down a few years back...



Mains voltage, low voltage or a mixture?

Is this a daft idea and I should forget about it?

Many thanks

Neil