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Old 22-03-2004, 11:12 AM
Anne Burgess
 
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Default Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)

Is the seed actually being eaten or is it all ending up on the floor
as the fussy gits spit it out?
Colonel Bloomer


Most of what the 'choosy' birds drop on the ground gets picked up by
chaffinches, bramblings, blackbirds, robins and dunnocks which have learned that
there are good pickings below the feeders.

Anne



  #62   Report Post  
Old 22-03-2004, 11:12 AM
Thur
 
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Default Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)

A lot is ending up on the floor,

You should have a thriving rodent population then, and possibly
are improving the chances for an owl presence?
Thur

"Doctor J. Frink" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 22:14:37 +0000, Colonel Bloomer

wrote:
On 21 Mar 2004 21:34:23 GMT, (Doctor J.
Frink) wrote:

As a datum-point: we had a sparrowhawk take a starling in our terrace
backyard the other day, in Milton Keynes. We've only had birds regularly
visiting for a few weeks prior to this (only recently set up food/drink
for the tweeters).

We're getting lots of sparrows, which appear to be scaring off the tits
which were the first to scout out the grub. The mixed seed is going down
very quickly whilst the peanuts are barely being touched.


Is the seed actually being eaten or is it all ending up on the floor
as the fussy gits spit it out?


A lot is ending up on the floor, although it's hard to tell how much as
it's all stones under the feeders and we have the occassional dunnock
clearing up after them. Watching them eat they are regularly spitting
out seeds, but it's hard to tell what the ratio is of eaten seeds to
spat out ones.

I must assume they're eating some of it, otherwise why would they keep
coming back? ;0) Anyway, we put bread out as well and something keeps
clearing most of that up.

Frink

--
Doctor J. Frink : 'Rampant Ribald Ringtail'
See his mind here :
http://www.cmp.liv.ac.uk/frink/
Annoy his mind here : pjf at cmp dot liv dot ack dot ook
"No sir, I didn't like it!" - Mr Horse



  #63   Report Post  
Old 22-03-2004, 05:52 PM
W K
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)


"Oz" wrote in message
news
Tumbleweed writes
ISTR reading a few years ago that the number of sparrow hawks had risen
hugely since the 1940's, maybe to 50,000 or more, whereas 60 years ago or

so
they were persecuted and very few and far between. If the difference was
say, 40,000 sparrowhawks between then and now, and they each ate 1

sparrow a
day, that would be 14 million less sparrows a year. Plus, every day I see
loads of magpies (probably 10 or 20), which I believe eat other birds

eggs.
When I was a kid I don't think I ever saw one. I would guess the number

of
magpies must have risen 10 fold in the last 30-40 years. That must

account
for a fair few sparrows (and similar) as well. Certainly there are lots

of
aphids and the like in my garden in the summer and I would have said that
most gardeners nowadays used less chemicals than 30 years ago. You

certainly
cant have a rise in the number of predators and expect the prey to remain
constant, after all isn't that the point of all this organic gardening we
hear about, encouraging predators such as hoverfly and ladybirds into
gardens? If that works for them, I don't see why it wouldn't work for
sparrow hawks/ sparrows as well.


"I don't see" Glad to see such an admission of cluenessness

Tsk, tsk!

Its not PC to suggest that predatory birds reduce prey numbers.


You knows the woys of the countryside no doubt.
Did you ever bother reading the results of research on such things?


  #64   Report Post  
Old 22-03-2004, 05:55 PM
D Russell
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)


"Tumbleweed" wrote in message
.. .
snip

If magpies eat the eggs and not the adults, what would you expect to see?
Sparrows calling the police?
50,000 sparrow hawks is still quite rare, people are saying there is a
shortage of sparrows yet there are millions of them!

--
Tumbleweed

Remove my socks for email address

True there are still millions of sparrows, but there are only, something
like 50% of the millions there were a few years ago.

Part of the problem is the perception of there being so many left that we
have nothing to worry about, but it's the vast percentage decline which has
people wondering what's going on. If this rate of decline were to continue
then they'd be none left at all in 5-10 years.

One thing I notice is not mentioned much is the vast numbers of small birds
caught and killed on certain medeterranian islands, huge nets erected during
migratory periods to harvest anything which flies. Great european state we
live in where this would be totally illegal in one country but is fine next
door.

Ho hum.
Duncan


  #65   Report Post  
Old 22-03-2004, 05:56 PM
W K
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)


"D Russell" wrote in message
...

One thing I notice is not mentioned much is the vast numbers of small

birds
caught and killed on certain medeterranian islands, huge nets erected

during
migratory periods to harvest anything which flies.


Where do you notice this?

I've seen it mentioned quite a few times, and there are campaigns about
this.




  #66   Report Post  
Old 22-03-2004, 05:57 PM
W K
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)


"Oz" wrote in message
news
Tumbleweed writes
ISTR reading a few years ago that the number of sparrow hawks had risen
hugely since the 1940's, maybe to 50,000 or more, whereas 60 years ago or

so
they were persecuted and very few and far between. If the difference was
say, 40,000 sparrowhawks between then and now, and they each ate 1

sparrow a
day, that would be 14 million less sparrows a year. Plus, every day I see
loads of magpies (probably 10 or 20), which I believe eat other birds

eggs.
When I was a kid I don't think I ever saw one. I would guess the number

of
magpies must have risen 10 fold in the last 30-40 years. That must

account
for a fair few sparrows (and similar) as well. Certainly there are lots

of
aphids and the like in my garden in the summer and I would have said that
most gardeners nowadays used less chemicals than 30 years ago. You

certainly
cant have a rise in the number of predators and expect the prey to remain
constant, after all isn't that the point of all this organic gardening we
hear about, encouraging predators such as hoverfly and ladybirds into
gardens? If that works for them, I don't see why it wouldn't work for
sparrow hawks/ sparrows as well.


"I don't see" Glad to see such an admission of cluenessness

Tsk, tsk!

Its not PC to suggest that predatory birds reduce prey numbers.


You knows the woys of the countryside no doubt.
Did you ever bother reading the results of research on such things?


  #67   Report Post  
Old 22-03-2004, 05:59 PM
D Russell
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)


"Tumbleweed" wrote in message
.. .
snip

If magpies eat the eggs and not the adults, what would you expect to see?
Sparrows calling the police?
50,000 sparrow hawks is still quite rare, people are saying there is a
shortage of sparrows yet there are millions of them!

--
Tumbleweed

Remove my socks for email address

True there are still millions of sparrows, but there are only, something
like 50% of the millions there were a few years ago.

Part of the problem is the perception of there being so many left that we
have nothing to worry about, but it's the vast percentage decline which has
people wondering what's going on. If this rate of decline were to continue
then they'd be none left at all in 5-10 years.

One thing I notice is not mentioned much is the vast numbers of small birds
caught and killed on certain medeterranian islands, huge nets erected during
migratory periods to harvest anything which flies. Great european state we
live in where this would be totally illegal in one country but is fine next
door.

Ho hum.
Duncan


  #68   Report Post  
Old 22-03-2004, 06:02 PM
W K
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)


"D Russell" wrote in message
...

One thing I notice is not mentioned much is the vast numbers of small

birds
caught and killed on certain medeterranian islands, huge nets erected

during
migratory periods to harvest anything which flies.


Where do you notice this?

I've seen it mentioned quite a few times, and there are campaigns about
this.


  #69   Report Post  
Old 22-03-2004, 06:03 PM
Jaques d'Alltrades
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)

The message
from martin contains these words:

Hang food under a CD.


Troll. Look how many crossposts.....

Apart from your post, the whole thread has fallen into my spamtrap anyway.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/
  #70   Report Post  
Old 22-03-2004, 06:06 PM
Peter Duncanson
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:57:44 -0000, "Tumbleweed"
wrote:


"Oz" wrote in message
...
ned writes
Yes, contrary to popular belief, Nature is not the pretty, pretty
civilised environment that some think it is. It is a harsh, cruel
place to survive in. Everything has its place in the predatory chain
and anything that dies of old age is mighty fortunate.
Hunger will very quickly transform an opportunistic feeder to seek out
an easy meal.



Local spars work gardens and feeders in particular on a regular basis.
The villagers are torn between having such an elegant bird and having
fewer small birds (up to collared doves+). They seem to be far more
effective than cats, not surprising really as flying away is no escape.


snip
Thats another factor, cats, though I dont know if there are more than there
used to be. And windows. There must be a lot more, and a lot larger windows
than say 50 years ago. Windows are responsible for huge numbers of bird
deaths every year. (that Bill Gates has a lot to be balmed for)


Ah - a typo.

Perhaps that should read "that Bill Gates has a lot to be embalmed for".

--
Peter Duncanson
UK


  #71   Report Post  
Old 22-03-2004, 06:09 PM
Colonel Bloomer
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:59:32 +0000 (UTC), "W K"
wrote:


"Colonel Bloomer" wrote in message
.. .


Shame the RSPB are not inclined to spend some of our millions and do
some serious research into this decline


They do.


Really! where?


  #72   Report Post  
Old 22-03-2004, 06:17 PM
Jaques d'Alltrades
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)

The message
from martin contains these words:

Hang food under a CD.


Troll. Look how many crossposts.....

Apart from your post, the whole thread has fallen into my spamtrap anyway.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/
  #73   Report Post  
Old 22-03-2004, 06:32 PM
Peter Duncanson
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:57:44 -0000, "Tumbleweed"
wrote:


"Oz" wrote in message
...
ned writes
Yes, contrary to popular belief, Nature is not the pretty, pretty
civilised environment that some think it is. It is a harsh, cruel
place to survive in. Everything has its place in the predatory chain
and anything that dies of old age is mighty fortunate.
Hunger will very quickly transform an opportunistic feeder to seek out
an easy meal.



Local spars work gardens and feeders in particular on a regular basis.
The villagers are torn between having such an elegant bird and having
fewer small birds (up to collared doves+). They seem to be far more
effective than cats, not surprising really as flying away is no escape.


snip
Thats another factor, cats, though I dont know if there are more than there
used to be. And windows. There must be a lot more, and a lot larger windows
than say 50 years ago. Windows are responsible for huge numbers of bird
deaths every year. (that Bill Gates has a lot to be balmed for)


Ah - a typo.

Perhaps that should read "that Bill Gates has a lot to be embalmed for".

--
Peter Duncanson
UK
  #74   Report Post  
Old 22-03-2004, 06:35 PM
Colonel Bloomer
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:59:32 +0000 (UTC), "W K"
wrote:


"Colonel Bloomer" wrote in message
.. .


Shame the RSPB are not inclined to spend some of our millions and do
some serious research into this decline


They do.


Really! where?


  #75   Report Post  
Old 22-03-2004, 07:10 PM
W K
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)


"Oz" wrote in message
news
Tumbleweed writes
ISTR reading a few years ago that the number of sparrow hawks had risen
hugely since the 1940's, maybe to 50,000 or more, whereas 60 years ago or

so
they were persecuted and very few and far between. If the difference was
say, 40,000 sparrowhawks between then and now, and they each ate 1

sparrow a
day, that would be 14 million less sparrows a year. Plus, every day I see
loads of magpies (probably 10 or 20), which I believe eat other birds

eggs.
When I was a kid I don't think I ever saw one. I would guess the number

of
magpies must have risen 10 fold in the last 30-40 years. That must

account
for a fair few sparrows (and similar) as well. Certainly there are lots

of
aphids and the like in my garden in the summer and I would have said that
most gardeners nowadays used less chemicals than 30 years ago. You

certainly
cant have a rise in the number of predators and expect the prey to remain
constant, after all isn't that the point of all this organic gardening we
hear about, encouraging predators such as hoverfly and ladybirds into
gardens? If that works for them, I don't see why it wouldn't work for
sparrow hawks/ sparrows as well.


"I don't see" Glad to see such an admission of cluenessness

Tsk, tsk!

Its not PC to suggest that predatory birds reduce prey numbers.


You knows the woys of the countryside no doubt.
Did you ever bother reading the results of research on such things?


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