Difficult one this, as I can't get a picture of the weed. They're starting
to come through now, light green broad leaves thrusting up through the earth
( the leaves come up directly, there is no central stalk, the leaves are
folded in half along the centreline as they come up ).
The stalks are not round IIRC, but more like lettuce stalks. In
fact, the whole plant resembles a lettuce ( not that you'd want to eat it )
eventually, with tongue-like leaves growing outwards and upwards. I let some
grow last year and they got to over a foot across., but I never saw any
flowers or central stalk. The young leaves are vaguely D shaped, slightly
finely serrated, maybe with a touch of red in the stalk occasionally. The
plant spreads by rhizomes, white, some 2-3mm across.
It's not Hairy Bittercress, Creeping Buttercup or Plantain. I don't
think it's sorrel or dock; I've got some Dock ( Wood Dock? ) growing and
that has more oblong leaves on round, reddish proper stalks. Sorrel has rear
facing barbs on its leaves which my weed doesn't, though mature specimens
have a somewhat serrated/spiky leaf outline.
Any ideas? I'm in the SW and on clay soil, and this weed is
ubiquitous.

Andy

"andrewpreece" wrote in message
...
Difficult one this, as I can't get a picture of the weed. They're starting
to come through now, light green broad leaves thrusting up through the
earth
( the leaves come up directly, there is no central stalk, the leaves are
folded in half along the centreline as they come up ).
The stalks are not round IIRC, but more like lettuce stalks. In
fact, the whole plant resembles a lettuce ( not that you'd want to eat
it )
eventually, with tongue-like leaves growing outwards and upwards. I let
some
grow last year and they got to over a foot across., but I never saw any
flowers or central stalk. The young leaves are vaguely D shaped, slightly
finely serrated, maybe with a touch of red in the stalk occasionally. The
plant spreads by rhizomes, white, some 2-3mm across.
It's not Hairy Bittercress, Creeping Buttercup or Plantain. I
don't
think it's sorrel or dock; I've got some Dock ( Wood Dock? ) growing and
that has more oblong leaves on round, reddish proper stalks. Sorrel has
rear
facing barbs on its leaves which my weed doesn't, though mature specimens
have a somewhat serrated/spiky leaf outline.
Any ideas? I'm in the SW and on clay soil, and this weed is
ubiquitous.

Andy




Have a look at http://www.dgsgardening.btinternet.co.uk/weedlf.htm

"John Flax" wrote
"andrewpreece" wrote
Difficult one this, as I can't get a picture of the weed. They're starting
to come through now, light green broad leaves thrusting up through the
earth
( the leaves come up directly, there is no central stalk, the leaves are
folded in half along the centreline as they come up ).
The stalks are not round IIRC, but more like lettuce stalks. In
fact, the whole plant resembles a lettuce ( not that you'd want to eat
it )
eventually, with tongue-like leaves growing outwards and upwards. I let
some
grow last year and they got to over a foot across., but I never saw any
flowers or central stalk. The young leaves are vaguely D shaped, slightly
finely serrated, maybe with a touch of red in the stalk occasionally. The
plant spreads by rhizomes, white, some 2-3mm across.
It's not Hairy Bittercress, Creeping Buttercup or Plantain. I
don't
think it's sorrel or dock; I've got some Dock ( Wood Dock? ) growing and
that has more oblong leaves on round, reddish proper stalks. Sorrel has
rear
facing barbs on its leaves which my weed doesn't, though mature specimens
have a somewhat serrated/spiky leaf outline.
Any ideas? I'm in the SW and on clay soil, and this weed is
ubiquitous.
Andy

Have a look at http://www.dgsgardening.btinternet.co.uk/weedlf.htm

Or http://www.dgsgardening.btinternet.co.uk/weeds.htm
Jenny

In article , andrewpreece
writes
Difficult one this, as I can't get a picture of the weed. They're starting
to come through now, light green broad leaves thrusting up through the earth
( the leaves come up directly, there is no central stalk, the leaves are
folded in half along the centreline as they come up ).
The stalks are not round IIRC, but more like lettuce stalks. In
fact, the whole plant resembles a lettuce ( not that you'd want to eat it )
eventually, with tongue-like leaves growing outwards and upwards.

Does it grow in a flat rosette on the grown? Or does it grow taller,
like a lettuce that is bolting - your comment below suggests a rosette
or a cabbage shape?

Are the leaves lettuce-like, ie thin and light green, or do they get
thicker? Are they smooth or hairy? Are the edges smooth or serrated? How
big are the individual leaves?

I let some
grow last year and they got to over a foot across., but I never saw any
flowers or central stalk.

It might be biennial, is growth one year, flowers the next. Try letting
grow some of the ones you let grow last year, and see what happens this
year. Identification is much easier when you have flowers.

The young leaves are vaguely D shaped, slightly
finely serrated, maybe with a touch of red in the stalk occasionally. The
plant spreads by rhizomes, white, some 2-3mm across.

I haven't the faintest!! A foot across is quite a big beast.

Have a look at coltsfoot (white downy underneath), alkanet - dark green
leaves with short bristly hairs, persicaria (another member of dock
family), nippleweed, small flowered willowherb.

I don't necessarily think it's any of these, but if you could look at
them and say how they differ from/are similar to yours, it's help with
the identification.

--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
In article , andrewpreece
writes
Difficult one this, as I can't get a picture of the weed. They're
starting
to come through now, light green broad leaves thrusting up through the
earth
( the leaves come up directly, there is no central stalk, the leaves are
folded in half along the centreline as they come up ).
The stalks are not round IIRC, but more like lettuce stalks. In
fact, the whole plant resembles a lettuce ( not that you'd want to eat
it )
eventually, with tongue-like leaves growing outwards and upwards.

Does it grow in a flat rosette on the grown? Or does it grow taller,
like a lettuce that is bolting - your comment below suggests a rosette
or a cabbage shape?

Are the leaves lettuce-like, ie thin and light green, or do they get
thicker? Are they smooth or hairy? Are the edges smooth or serrated? How
big are the individual leaves?

I let some
grow last year and they got to over a foot across., but I never saw any
flowers or central stalk.

It might be biennial, is growth one year, flowers the next. Try letting
grow some of the ones you let grow last year, and see what happens this
year. Identification is much easier when you have flowers.

The young leaves are vaguely D shaped, slightly
finely serrated, maybe with a touch of red in the stalk occasionally. The
plant spreads by rhizomes, white, some 2-3mm across.

I haven't the faintest!! A foot across is quite a big beast.

Have a look at coltsfoot (white downy underneath), alkanet - dark green
leaves with short bristly hairs, persicaria (another member of dock
family), nippleweed, small flowered willowherb.

I don't necessarily think it's any of these, but if you could look at
them and say how they differ from/are similar to yours, it's help with
the identification.

--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Thanks for the replies: I had already visited the suggested website.
The weed does not resemble coltsfoot, alkanet, persicaria, nippleweed
or small flowered willowherb ( I've had all of those except alkanet
growing in my garden, and I've seen alkanet in the wild, none of these are
close ).

Much research leads me to the conclusion that the mystery weed is
a member of the Asteraceae(=compositae) family, that is, Hawkweed (Hieracium
Anglicum???? ).

It appears that this is a large group, extremely complicated and difficult
to identify.
Nevertheless they are supposed to flower, but I've never seen them make any
attempt at it......even though I dig 'em up, I would have thought the few I
let grow
on last year would've flowered, but perhaps, as suggested, they are biennial
( I dug them up anyway at the end of the season, doubtless if I'd let them
be I'd be
looking at flowers right now ).

To identify them positIvely I would need to let them grow unmolested for a
couple
of years and then buy a very expensive textbook, Flora Europaea. I shan't
bother
I think! Thanks for the replies anyway, I just thought that since I had so
much
trouble with it, gardeners might recognise my weed right away,

cheers,

Andy.

If you don't have access to a camera, how about a scanner, often things like
leaves scan well, then post it to alt.binaries.pictures.gardens

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

In article , andrewpreece
writes
Much research leads me to the conclusion that the mystery weed is
a member of the Asteraceae(=compositae) family, that is, Hawkweed (Hieracium
Anglicum???? ).

There's an orange flowered hawkweed which is thought to be a garden
escape. It seems to sit around for quite a long while (at least a couple
of years) before flowering. It's quite good at suddenly appearing in a
garden in fair abundance.
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
In article , andrewpreece
writes
Much research leads me to the conclusion that the mystery weed is
a member of the Asteraceae(=compositae) family, that is, Hawkweed
(Hieracium
Anglicum???? ).

There's an orange flowered hawkweed which is thought to be a garden
escape. It seems to sit around for quite a long while (at least a couple
of years) before flowering. It's quite good at suddenly appearing in a
garden in fair abundance.
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Trust me, no-one would grow this in their garden voluntarily - it doesn't
look good enough. I've just had another look at some example, and in fact
the leaves are shaped like a broad spear with slight barbs on either
trailing
edge, there are stems, not very long, like dock, but there all the same, and
young
leaves are purplish underneath, with a few hairs on the centreline. The
colour fades back to the stem as the leaves get more than a couple of weeks
old. It's no good me describing it in words, I'll try and borrow a digicam
and see
if anyone recognises a picture,

cheers,

Andy.

The message
from Kay Easton contains these words:

There's an orange flowered hawkweed which is thought to be a garden
escape. It seems to sit around for quite a long while (at least a couple
of years) before flowering. It's quite good at suddenly appearing in a
garden in fair abundance.

My garden's full of it.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
In article , andrewpreece
writes
Much research leads me to the conclusion that the mystery weed is
a member of the Asteraceae(=compositae) family, that is, Hawkweed (Hieracium
Anglicum???? ).

There's an orange flowered hawkweed which is thought to be a garden
escape. It seems to sit around for quite a long while (at least a couple
of years) before flowering. It's quite good at suddenly appearing in a
garden in fair abundance.
--
Kay Easton

I used to have it in the grass verge outside my last house......I like it !
Does anyone had some seed ?
Jenny

Jenny
I am sure I can find you some plants of it if you REALLY want it. but it is
very invasive, spreads by runner and seed.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

The message
from "JennyC" contains these words:

I used to have it in the grass verge outside my last house......I like it !
Does anyone had some seed ?

Send me your address and I'll send you some - or if it's legal to send
uncertified plants over national borders I'll send you a jiffy bag with
some rooted runners. (Well, they're similar to runners, anyway.)

--
Rusty
horrid ¬ squeak snailything zetnet ¬ co ¬ uk

"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in message
...
The message
from "JennyC" contains these words:

I used to have it in the grass verge outside my last house......I like it !
Does anyone had some seed ?

Send me your address and I'll send you some - or if it's legal to send
uncertified plants over national borders I'll send you a jiffy bag with
some rooted runners. (Well, they're similar to runners, anyway.)

--
Rusty
horrid ¬ squeak snailything zetnet ¬ co ¬ u

Thanks David and Rusty, but I've had an offer from someone I'll be seeing when
over in the UK soon....... :~))

I know it's invasive but it's so happy looking :~)

Jenny

"JennyC" wrote in message
...

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
In article , andrewpreece
writes
There's an orange flowered hawkweed which is thought to be a garden
escape. It seems to sit around for quite a long while (at least a couple
of years) before flowering. It's quite good at suddenly appearing in a
garden in fair abundance.
--
Kay Easton

I used to have it in the grass verge outside my last house......I like it
!
Does anyone had some seed ?
Jenny

I have the one with blotchy leaves growing in the gravel and the orange,(
sort of wild one), you are welcome to some seed in about 6 weeks if you
remind me (just starting to flower) but you must promise you will still
speak to me next year when you see how invasive it can be :~)
--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)

"Charlie Pridham" wrote
"JennyC" wrote
"Kay Easton" wrote
andrewpreece writes
There's an orange flowered hawkweed which is thought to be a garden
escape. It seems to sit around for quite a long while (at least a couple
of years) before flowering. It's quite good at suddenly appearing in a
garden in fair abundance.
--
Kay Easton

I used to have it in the grass verge outside my last house......I like it
!
Does anyone had some seed ?
Jenny

I have the one with blotchy leaves growing in the gravel and the orange,(
sort of wild one), you are welcome to some seed in about 6 weeks if you
remind me (just starting to flower) but you must promise you will still
speak to me next year when you see how invasive it can be :~)
--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.

Hi Charlie,
Thanks for the offer , but Kay will be giving me a plant ..........
Jenny