Tatty apple trees
 

Hello again!

My new garden has 4 apple trees which I've finally gotten round to looking
at. (I'm assuming they're all apples, when we looked round the house in
Feb, one of them still had lots of fruits tenaciously clinging on!)

I guess I should snip off all the little weedy shoots that're coming out all
over the shop, and clear the thick weeds/grass round the base, right? One's
also covered in ivy, is that a bad idea?

Currently they have a 3-5 foot trunks, which branch outwards almost
horizontally several feet, and then there's a dense mass of 10'+ vertical
shoots. This seems to suggest they were heavily pruned some years ago and
then neglected, perhaps? Anyway, this doesn't seem like the textbook shape
at all but, unfortunately, textbooks only seem to say, 'Do this in year 1,
that in year 2 etc.' and not how to deal with someone else's mess :)

So, if someone could give me some tips on how to proceed, then that'd be
great.

thanks in advance...

Tatty apple trees
 

"Glen Able" wrote in
:

Hello again!

My new garden has 4 apple trees which I've finally gotten round to
looking at. (I'm assuming they're all apples, when we looked round
the house in Feb, one of them still had lots of fruits tenaciously
clinging on!)

I guess I should snip off all the little weedy shoots that're coming
out all over the shop, and clear the thick weeds/grass round the base,
right? One's also covered in ivy, is that a bad idea?

This is the wrong time of year for pruning apples. If there were fruits
on them last year, you may well get some this year too - even if they do
need pruning, fruiting can still be pretty good! (believe me - my apple
trees were pretty neglected too!)

I'd pretty much leave them as they are for this year. Clear away any
suckers coming from the base, maybe give them a mulch and clear the base
of the trunks. Take the ivy off if it looks like it's going to
overwhelm the tree, (or if you don't like it), and chop off anything
that's clearly dead or diseased.

Chop back anything else that might be shading them - apples don't like
to be fighting for light, and just cutting back a shading hedge a bit
can make a big difference.

Then this winter you can take out the crossing branches, branches that
go straight up, and branches that are just in the way to create a more
open structure.

It's worth bearing in mind that most apple trees have blossom/apples on
side branches (spurs), not on the tips*. So you aren't aiming for a
long straight branch with a few twigs on the end, but plenty of well-
spaced side shoots so each apple has a bit of space and light to grow.

You'll probably find that next year you get a whole bunch of new 'water
shoots' trying to go straight up again after your pruning, and will need
to chop these to encourage the fruit bearin spurs.


(*there are a few tip-bearers, though and sod's law says you've got one.
If they flowered this year, take a really good look at any young apples
on the branches now and try to work out which each tree is. Spur-
bearers are more common).


this doesn't seem
like the textbook shape at all but, unfortunately, textbooks only seem
to say, 'Do this in year 1, that in year 2 etc.' and not how to deal
with someone else's mess :)

I know what you mean! Mine were just the same.


--
gardening on a north-facing hill
in South-East Cornwall
--

Tatty apple trees
 

"Victoria Clare" wrote in message
This is the wrong time of year for pruning apples. If there were fruits
on them last year, you may well get some this year too - even if they do
need pruning, fruiting can still be pretty good! (believe me - my apple
trees were pretty neglected too!)

Good - plenty of other stuff to be getting on with right now!
e.g. The nice "raised bed" has turned out to actually be a huge mass of old
bricks and rubble with an inch of soil cunningly covering it (which
explained why even the grass wasn't growing well on it!)

I'd pretty much leave them as they are for this year. Clear away any
suckers coming from the base, maybe give them a mulch and clear the base
of the trunks. Take the ivy off if it looks like it's going to
overwhelm the tree, (or if you don't like it), and chop off anything
that's clearly dead or diseased.

Chop back anything else that might be shading them - apples don't like
to be fighting for light, and just cutting back a shading hedge a bit
can make a big difference.

Righto.

Then this winter you can take out the crossing branches, branches that
go straight up, and branches that are just in the way to create a more
open structure.

Unfortunately, literally all the branches go straight up. They've really
got
that textbook overpruned look and I've got no idea if it's even possible to
develop them into a more desirable shape :( Dunno if anyone's
theory-of-pruning knowledge is up to the task?


Thanks for all the advice!

Tatty apple trees
 

"Glen Able" wrote in message
...
"Victoria Clare" wrote in message
This is the wrong time of year for pruning apples. If there were fruits
on them last year, you may well get some this year too - even if they do
need pruning, fruiting can still be pretty good! (believe me - my apple
trees were pretty neglected too!)

Good - plenty of other stuff to be getting on with right now!
e.g. The nice "raised bed" has turned out to actually be a huge mass of
old
bricks and rubble with an inch of soil cunningly covering it (which
explained why even the grass wasn't growing well on it!)

I'd pretty much leave them as they are for this year. Clear away any
suckers coming from the base, maybe give them a mulch and clear the base
of the trunks. Take the ivy off if it looks like it's going to
overwhelm the tree, (or if you don't like it), and chop off anything
that's clearly dead or diseased.

Chop back anything else that might be shading them - apples don't like
to be fighting for light, and just cutting back a shading hedge a bit
can make a big difference.

Righto.

Then this winter you can take out the crossing branches, branches that
go straight up, and branches that are just in the way to create a more
open structure.

Unfortunately, literally all the branches go straight up. They've really
got
that textbook overpruned look and I've got no idea if it's even possible
to
develop them into a more desirable shape :( Dunno if anyone's
theory-of-pruning knowledge is up to the task?


Thanks for all the advice!

The advice given was good, however winter pruning causes rampant growth.
A tree shaped in the summer will produce weak, potentially fruiting,
growth and retain its form.
If nothing else remove the top third from any new growth made this year
in July/Aug.
I would do that, this year, even if you find they are tip bearers.
Regards Brian.

Tatty apple trees
 

"Victoria Clare" wrote an excellent reply to
"Glen Able" who wrote
My new garden has 4 apple trees which I've finally gotten round to
looking at. (I'm assuming they're all apples, when we looked round
the house in Feb, one of them still had lots of fruits tenaciously
clinging on!)

I guess I should snip off all the little weedy shoots that're coming
out all over the shop, and clear the thick weeds/grass round the base,
right? One's also covered in ivy, is that a bad idea?

This is the wrong time of year for pruning apples. If there were fruits
on them last year, you may well get some this year too - even if they do
need pruning, fruiting can still be pretty good! (believe me - my apple
trees were pretty neglected too!)

I'd pretty much leave them as they are for this year. Clear away any
suckers coming from the base, maybe give them a mulch and clear the base
of the trunks. Take the ivy off if it looks like it's going to
overwhelm the tree, (or if you don't like it), and chop off anything
that's clearly dead or diseased.

Chop back anything else that might be shading them - apples don't like
to be fighting for light, and just cutting back a shading hedge a bit
can make a big difference.

Then this winter you can take out the crossing branches, branches that
go straight up, and branches that are just in the way to create a more
open structure.


If they are that bad, neglected and unpruned for years , overgrown, then
next winter I would go back to the basic scaffold branches and start again.
A total renovation.
Look for the few main side branches coming off the main trunk and prune
everything else out to one or two buds off those. Any large branches that go
upwards and are beyond your ability to pick fruit should also be pruned out.
The summer afterwards will see the tree putting on a lot of new growth and
this should be summer pruned as it grows to keep it shortish, this will
encourage the production of fruiting buds/spurs for the following season.

--
Regards
Bob

Some photos of my plants at.....

Tatty apple trees
 

"Glen Able" wrote in message
...
Hello again!

My new garden has 4 apple trees which I've finally gotten round to looking
at. (I'm assuming they're all apples, when we looked round the house in
Feb, one of them still had lots of fruits tenaciously clinging on!)

I guess I should snip off all the little weedy shoots that're coming out
all
over the shop, and clear the thick weeds/grass round the base, right?
One's
also covered in ivy, is that a bad idea?

Currently they have a 3-5 foot trunks, which branch outwards almost
horizontally several feet, and then there's a dense mass of 10'+ vertical
shoots. This seems to suggest they were heavily pruned some years ago and
then neglected, perhaps? Anyway, this doesn't seem like the textbook
shape
at all but, unfortunately, textbooks only seem to say, 'Do this in year 1,
that in year 2 etc.' and not how to deal with someone else's mess :)

So, if someone could give me some tips on how to proceed, then that'd be
great.

thanks in advance...
********************************
Tell us a bit more. And take no offence at anything I say, Pse.
The tree has a bole, - that is the vertical trunk which is the name mostly
in use.
("Oh! to be in England now that Aprils' there, for, whoever wakes in England
sees some morning, unaware ..... That the lime tree bole is in tiny
leaf.....") etc. etc. is not quite correct.
The bole of a tree is, generally, never in leaf. It is there to carry and
feed the branches.
From the trunk the branches grow outwards, They grow horizontal, or
uppish like the pear/apple, or downish like the cone shape, a good example
of which is the fir tree.
You write of 3-5 feet trunks. That's a very big old tree, that is. if you
mean the diameter of the trunk (bole).
If you meant 3-5 feet vertically up the trunk from the ground then that's a
very young tree 4-5 years old.
In spring ( that is, now) .
Speaking of a quite young tree, at this time, (Spring), soft pithy small
branches are shooting upwards from the branches already extant. They grow
quickly. You "spring prune" them now. You cut them off (generally,) at the
second node outwards from the original branch from which they have suddenly
appeared, careful though, lots will be growing out from the start of the
growth from the branch will have a darker coloured peel then suddenly it
immediately looks new and much lighter. If so, count two nodes out from
there. It is very obvious, so don't worry.
Right! - that's your spring pruning. Fruit should appear on those two nodes
next year's summer and autumn, and this method keeps all the fruit nice and
compact on the tree and the tree branches don't bolt and get all scraggly.
Now for winter pruning. this is designed to tidy up the tree and shape it
to your requirements.
Cut out all deadwood and branches shooting into and /or across the inside
area of the branches.
You aim to get plenty of light in there so try for a shape like a wineglass
or an ordinary "wild" tree, bit by bit, year by year. Don't worry, its
easy, just look at the tree and you will easily see what requires to be
done. I did seven young plum tress three days ago and it took me half an
hour. Mind you!, plums are well known for following the pattern of new
pappy shoot branches quickly growing vertically at this time of the year.
Doug.
******************************

Tatty apple trees
 

"Glen Able" wrote in message
...
Hello again!

My new garden has 4 apple trees which I've finally gotten round to looking
at. (I'm assuming they're all apples, when we looked round the house in
Feb, one of them still had lots of fruits tenaciously clinging on!)

I guess I should snip off all the little weedy shoots that're coming out
all
over the shop, and clear the thick weeds/grass round the base, right?
One's
also covered in ivy, is that a bad idea?

Currently they have a 3-5 foot trunks, which branch outwards almost
horizontally several feet, and then there's a dense mass of 10'+ vertical
shoots. This seems to suggest they were heavily pruned some years ago and
then neglected, perhaps? Anyway, this doesn't seem like the textbook
shape
at all but, unfortunately, textbooks only seem to say, 'Do this in year 1,
that in year 2 etc.' and not how to deal with someone else's mess :)

So, if someone could give me some tips on how to proceed, then that'd be
great.

Sincere thanks to all those who responded with such a valuable wealth of
experience.

ga

Tatty apple trees
 

Glen Able wrote
One's covered in ivy, is that a bad idea?

.... very bad - ivy KILLS trees AFAIK...

HTH

--
Gnomo
....any way the wind blows...

"Gnomo" wrote in message
...
Glen Able wrote
One's covered in ivy, is that a bad idea?

... very bad - ivy KILLS trees AFAIK...

Not at all true, the ivy merely uses the tree for support.

Alan