On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 20:12:25 +0100, tuin man wrote:

"Douglas" wrote in message
...

"Kev" wrote in message
...
While sat in the garden the other day, my father noticed a fern and
warned
me that he has seen something on television stating that one or more
types
were a risk to children's eyesight. Did anyone else see this or have an
opinion ?

Thanks
*********************
Don't know, but if you're going up the fells keep away from the bracken.
Sometimes the stuff's riddled with nasty ticks.
Doug.
********************

I never heard of the eyesight risk, but have heard that areas of dense fern
planting (like say, the side of a mountain) should be avoided during spore
release time as these are allegedly carcinogenic.
Not that we haven't just about heard the same thing about just about
everything else so far.

Not the spores, but the foliage itself. And carcinogenic only really in
large amounts. Brought to light years ago by studies of the higher rate of
mouth and throat and stomach cancer in regions of China where the people
regularly eat large amounts of bracken as a vegetable or salad.

--
Tim C.

On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 15:07:15 GMT, Tim Challenger
"timothy(dot)challenger(at)apk(dot)at" wrote:

On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 20:12:25 +0100, tuin man wrote:

"Douglas" wrote in message
...

"Kev" wrote in message
...
While sat in the garden the other day, my father noticed a fern and
warned
me that he has seen something on television stating that one or more
types
were a risk to children's eyesight. Did anyone else see this or have an
opinion ?

Thanks
*********************
Don't know, but if you're going up the fells keep away from the bracken.
Sometimes the stuff's riddled with nasty ticks.
Doug.
********************

I never heard of the eyesight risk, but have heard that areas of dense fern
planting (like say, the side of a mountain) should be avoided during spore
release time as these are allegedly carcinogenic.
Not that we haven't just about heard the same thing about just about
everything else so far.

Not the spores, but the foliage itself. And carcinogenic only really in
large amounts. Brought to light years ago by studies of the higher rate of
mouth and throat and stomach cancer in regions of China where the people
regularly eat large amounts of bracken as a vegetable or salad.
See
http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/ptq/ptq.htm

and
http://www.planorganic.com/news_july_02.htm
"Hill walking could give you cancer! Bracken (Pteridum aquilinium),
that common fern much admired by tourists, is very prominent
throughout the British Isles at this time of the year. It mainly
features on upland soils where it forms thick, hip-high cover beloved
by children for games of hide-and-seek - and adults, for a little
alfresco slap-and-tickle, perhaps!
During late July and August it matures, releasing billions of spores
which have a quite distinctive smell. These airborne microscopic
fellows are the problem. Experiments with rats and guinea pigs have
shown that the spores are carcinogenic.* It seems that bracken
contains chemicals related to benzene.
Farmers have always been aware of the dangers of the plant, especially
in its mature stage, and many animals are lost to it every year. One
estimate puts UK animal deaths to bracken at £8 million!
Milk from animals that have eaten the plant has also been linked to
human cancers in Costa Rica. The food-adventurous Japanese eat the
young shoots of bracken and it is suggested that this has a connection
to the fact that they have the highest rates of stomach cancer in the
world.
Some years ago, shepherds and farm workers in Britain were advised to
wear masks when they were working in or near bracken.
The spores also contaminate watercourses.
Bracken is increasingly becoming a pest in the UK where, Triffid-like,
it is advancing at the rate of 3% per year, mostly at the expense of
heather.
Methods to eliminate it, include spraying, cutting regularly (which
should wear out the plant in three seasons) and ploughing it up. This
is the option I chose when I wanted to clear a 20 year old growth of
bracken - some up to 6 foot high - here on my holding on Beara. I
ploughed up the huge mats of roots or rhizomes, about 25 tons per
acre, I estimated - allowed them to dry - it was a rare dry summer
here - then burned and spread the ashes. I had a wonderful crop of
potatoes from the 2 acres I cleared.
Every scrap of root however must be destroyed otherwise it will start
to propagate again.
* The Bracken Advisory Commission was set up six years ago and is
headed by Prof. Jim Taylor, emeritus professor of geography at the
Univ. of Wales, Aberyswyth."

"martin" wrote in message
...
See
http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/ptq/ptq.htm

and
http://www.planorganic.com/news_july_02.htm
"Hill walking could give you cancer! Bracken (Pteridum aquilinium),
that common fern much admired by tourists, is very prominent
throughout the British Isles at this time of the year. It mainly
features on upland soils where it forms thick, hip-high cover beloved
by children for games of hide-and-seek - and adults, for a little
alfresco slap-and-tickle, perhaps!
During late July and August it matures, releasing billions of spores
which have a quite distinctive smell. These airborne microscopic
fellows are the problem. Experiments with rats and guinea pigs have
shown that the spores are carcinogenic.* It seems that bracken
contains chemicals related to benzene.
Farmers have always been aware of the dangers of the plant, especially
in its mature stage, and many animals are lost to it every year. One
estimate puts UK animal deaths to bracken at £8 million!
Milk from animals that have eaten the plant has also been linked to
human cancers in Costa Rica. The food-adventurous Japanese eat the
young shoots of bracken and it is suggested that this has a connection
to the fact that they have the highest rates of stomach cancer in the
world.
Some years ago, shepherds and farm workers in Britain were advised to
wear masks when they were working in or near bracken.
The spores also contaminate watercourses.
Bracken is increasingly becoming a pest in the UK where, Triffid-like,
it is advancing at the rate of 3% per year, mostly at the expense of
heather.
Methods to eliminate it, include spraying, cutting regularly (which
should wear out the plant in three seasons) and ploughing it up. This
is the option I chose when I wanted to clear a 20 year old growth of
bracken - some up to 6 foot high - here on my holding on Beara. I
ploughed up the huge mats of roots or rhizomes, about 25 tons per
acre, I estimated - allowed them to dry - it was a rare dry summer
here - then burned and spread the ashes. I had a wonderful crop of
potatoes from the 2 acres I cleared.
Every scrap of root however must be destroyed otherwise it will start
to propagate again.
* The Bracken Advisory Commission was set up six years ago and is
headed by Prof. Jim Taylor, emeritus professor of geography at the
Univ. of Wales, Aberyswyth."

Very fulsome response thanks Martin, but can we establish that the risks
refer to massive exposure, such as hill walking amongst densely populated
bracken and not the odd fern in the garden?

Patrick

The message
from "tuin man" contains these words:

Very fulsome response thanks Martin, but can we establish that the risks
refer to massive exposure, such as hill walking amongst densely populated
bracken and not the odd fern in the garden?

You really don't want bracken in the garden......

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

"martin" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 16:48:25 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


"Douglas" wrote in message
...

"Kev" wrote in message
...
While sat in the garden the other day, my father noticed a fern
and warned
me that he has seen something on television stating that one or
more types
were a risk to children's eyesight. Did anyone else see this
or
have an
opinion ?

see www.nhm.ac.uk/hosted_sites/bps/siman.pdf for health risks from
bracken spores


Thanks
*********************
Don't know, but if you're going up the fells keep away from the
bracken.
Sometimes the stuff's riddled with nasty ticks.

Surely you don't begrudge the little ticks their dindins?

Lyme Disease is carried by ticks.
An infectious disease caused by a bacterium which is spread to
humans
by tick bites. It is characterised initially by an expanding red
rash
at the site of the bite often accompanied by headache, muscle and
joint aches and fever.

It occurs throughout Europe (including the UK), the United States,
Coastal regions of Australia, China and Japan where it is confined
to
wooded regions.

Awful. Does all that mean I must approach a fell covered with bracken
only when wearing a waterproof surfers' suit?

Repellents containing DEET have been found to be useful but if an
embedded tick is discovered, slowly pulling it out with tweezers is
the best method of removal

As children, we were taught never to try that with a tick, as you may
leave part of it embedded in your skin. We were instructed to let the
tick be in peace until you have access to some paraffin. Liberally
dousing the tick and its surroundings is said to suffocate it to the
extent of pulling out, thus allowing you to shake it on to the floor.
Never having been attacked by a tick, I cannot vouch for its efficacy.

and the affected person should remain alert
to the development of any symptoms. If a rash appears at the site of
attachment, immediate medical attention should be sought. Lyme
disease
is effectively treated with oral penicillin or tetracyclines.

On Thu, 3 Jun 2004 14:16:05 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


"martin" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 16:48:25 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


"Douglas" wrote in message
...

"Kev" wrote in message
...
While sat in the garden the other day, my father noticed a fern
and warned
me that he has seen something on television stating that one or
more types
were a risk to children's eyesight. Did anyone else see this
or
have an
opinion ?

see www.nhm.ac.uk/hosted_sites/bps/siman.pdf for health risks from
bracken spores


Thanks
*********************
Don't know, but if you're going up the fells keep away from the
bracken.
Sometimes the stuff's riddled with nasty ticks.

Surely you don't begrudge the little ticks their dindins?

Lyme Disease is carried by ticks.
An infectious disease caused by a bacterium which is spread to
humans
by tick bites. It is characterised initially by an expanding red
rash
at the site of the bite often accompanied by headache, muscle and
joint aches and fever.

It occurs throughout Europe (including the UK), the United States,
Coastal regions of Australia, China and Japan where it is confined
to
wooded regions.

Awful. Does all that mean I must approach a fell covered with bracken
only when wearing a waterproof surfers' suit?

I think the advice is not too at the time the spoors are being
released.


Repellents containing DEET have been found to be useful but if an
embedded tick is discovered, slowly pulling it out with tweezers is
the best method of removal

As children, we were taught never to try that with a tick, as you may
leave part of it embedded in your skin. We were instructed to let the
tick be in peace until you have access to some paraffin. Liberally
dousing the tick and its surroundings is said to suffocate it to the
extent of pulling out, thus allowing you to shake it on to the floor.

I was taught the same.

Never having been attacked by a tick, I cannot vouch for its efficacy.

I'd never seen a tick until I moved to the Netherlands, our two cats
regularly get ticks, perhaps it explains, why they are so dim compared
to cats I had in UK?

On Thu, 3 Jun 2004 14:16:05 +0000 (UTC), Franz Heymann wrote:

As children, we were taught never to try that with a tick, as you may
leave part of it embedded in your skin. We were instructed to let the
tick be in peace until you have access to some paraffin. Liberally
dousing the tick and its surroundings is said to suffocate it to the
extent of pulling out, thus allowing you to shake it on to the floor.
Never having been attacked by a tick, I cannot vouch for its efficacy.

That's the last thing that's recommended here (Austria) where they have a
major tick presence. The tick will often die before it falls out, leaving
you with the same problem, but worsened because the head is then more
likely to come off in the skin than when it's alive.

The way recommended here by the doctors I've asked *is* to remove the tick
with tweezers or fingernails (if it's big enough) by pushing and twisting,
very much like a UK bayonet light-bulb fitting.
--
Tim C.

On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 17:30:19 +0200, martin wrote:

On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 15:07:15 GMT, Tim Challenger
"timothy(dot)challenger(at)apk(dot)at" wrote:

On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 20:12:25 +0100, tuin man wrote:

"Douglas" wrote in message
...

"Kev" wrote in message
...
While sat in the garden the other day, my father noticed a fern and
warned
me that he has seen something on television stating that one or more
types
were a risk to children's eyesight. Did anyone else see this or have an
opinion ?

Thanks
*********************
Don't know, but if you're going up the fells keep away from the bracken.
Sometimes the stuff's riddled with nasty ticks.
Doug.
********************

I never heard of the eyesight risk, but have heard that areas of dense fern
planting (like say, the side of a mountain) should be avoided during spore
release time as these are allegedly carcinogenic.
Not that we haven't just about heard the same thing about just about
everything else so far.

Not the spores, but the foliage itself. And carcinogenic only really in
large amounts. Brought to light years ago by studies of the higher rate of
mouth and throat and stomach cancer in regions of China where the people
regularly eat large amounts of bracken as a vegetable or salad.
See
http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/ptq/ptq.htm

and
http://www.planorganic.com/news_july_02.htm
Thanks for the update. I'm a bit out of touch, I can see.
--
Tim C.

In article ,
"Franz Heymann" writes:
|
| As children, we were taught never to try that with a tick, as you may
| leave part of it embedded in your skin. We were instructed to let the
| tick be in peace until you have access to some paraffin. Liberally
| dousing the tick and its surroundings is said to suffocate it to the
| extent of pulling out, thus allowing you to shake it on to the floor.
| Never having been attacked by a tick, I cannot vouch for its efficacy.

I have, often, and I can vouch for its efficiency - negatively.

You will get part of the tick embedded, whatever you do, and
it will itch like hell and may swell up. But, in most places,
ticks are more common in grassland than anywhere else (and the
UK is no exception).


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 09:00:47 +0100, Tumbleweed wrote:

Lyme Disease is carried by ticks.
An infectious disease caused by a bacterium which is spread to humans
snips ...

Why do so many people worry about rare and uncommon diseases and
dangers, which they are very unlikely ever to encounter and studiously
ignore tobacco, alchohol, junk food, road traffic, etc?

Because those people may be healthy-eating, non-smoking careful pedestrian
tee-totallers, who enjoy a good walk in the hills?

It might be uncommon in the UK (how common is it actually?) but it's very
common in parts of Europe. Germany and Austria in particular, as well as
"early Summer meningo-encephalitis" (FSME) caused by a virus, for which
nearly everyone who goes outside gets vaccinated against. They have major
advertising and vaccination campaigns every Spring. So, personally I'm more
likely to get FSME or Lyme disease than die of a smoking related illness.

--
Tim C.

In article m, Tim
Challenger "timothy(dot)challenger(at)apk(dot)at"@?.? writes
On Thu, 3 Jun 2004 14:16:05 +0000 (UTC), Franz Heymann wrote:

The way recommended here by the doctors I've asked *is* to remove the tick
with tweezers or fingernails (if it's big enough) by pushing and twisting,
very much like a UK bayonet light-bulb fitting.

According to a farmer friend of mine, the best way to remove a tick:

1. fill egg cup with neat brandy
2. place egg cup over tick so that tick is immersed
3. wait for tick to remove itself voluntarily ))))))))
4. doesn't take long

--
Jane Ransom in Lancaster.
I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg
but if you need to email me for any other reason, put ransoms
at jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see

In message , Jane Ransom
writes

According to a farmer friend of mine, the best way to remove a tick:

1. fill egg cup with neat brandy
2. place egg cup over tick so that tick is immersed
3. wait for tick to remove itself voluntarily ))))))))
4. doesn't take long

5. Drink brandy. )))))))))

--
dave @ stejonda

Bring Performance Channel back to NTL.
http://www.performance-channel.com/
Ring 0800 052 2000

On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 14:21:42 GMT, Tim Challenger
"timothy(dot)challenger(at)apk(dot)at" wrote:


The way recommended here by the doctors I've asked *is* to remove the tick
with tweezers or fingernails (if it's big enough) by pushing and twisting,
very much like a UK bayonet light-bulb fitting.

You can buy a tool for removing ticks.

On Thu, 3 Jun 2004 16:19:59 +0100, Jane Ransom
wrote:

In article m, Tim
Challenger "timothy(dot)challenger(at)apk(dot)at"@?.? writes
On Thu, 3 Jun 2004 14:16:05 +0000 (UTC), Franz Heymann wrote:

The way recommended here by the doctors I've asked *is* to remove the tick
with tweezers or fingernails (if it's big enough) by pushing and twisting,
very much like a UK bayonet light-bulb fitting.

According to a farmer friend of mine, the best way to remove a tick:

1. fill egg cup with neat brandy
2. place egg cup over tick so that tick is immersed
3. wait for tick to remove itself voluntarily ))))))))
4. doesn't take long



5. Drink brandy? :-)

On Thu, 3 Jun 2004 18:59:24 +0100, "dave @ stejonda"
wrote:

In message , Jane Ransom
writes

According to a farmer friend of mine, the best way to remove a tick:

1. fill egg cup with neat brandy
2. place egg cup over tick so that tick is immersed
3. wait for tick to remove itself voluntarily ))))))))
4. doesn't take long

5. Drink brandy. )))))))))

Whoops!
I should have read your post first.
Cheers Dave!