wrote in message
...
On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 19:29:55 +0100, "David Hill"
wrote:

atwifa said "...just a general point (and likely a contentious one
at that):
but i've never come across a good reason for destroying wasps'
nests. it's
always seemed to me like killing all the lions on the plain.
they're
important predators, and you need to be somewhat witless to come to
any harm
around them......."

All I can say is
What a load of pretentious nonsense

If like me you are Hypersensitive to wasp stings or you are even
more
unlucky to be Allergic to the stings when just one sting can be
life
threatening, then you do all to remove any chance.
If you have a nest in your garden where there is no way of avoiding
it .or
of getting your house full of wasps.
When it comes down to me or them then there is no choice.

They have to go

P.S. If you have a man eating Lion, then you remove that Lion and
don't try
to kill all the Lions on the plain.

How do you use Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 and still
not
have properly formatted messages. Do you deliberately delete the
and
and ... ?

I doubt if you will be able to persuade David to abide by the usual
rules of netiquette. Others have tried and failed, so you will just
have to struggle through his contributions, which are usually worth
reading, despite the missing context, snip marks and attributions.

Franz

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 19:29:55 +0100, "David Hill"
wrote:

atwifa said "...just a general point (and likely a contentious one
at that):
but i've never come across a good reason for destroying wasps'
nests. it's
always seemed to me like killing all the lions on the plain.
they're
important predators, and you need to be somewhat witless to come to
any harm
around them......."

All I can say is
What a load of pretentious nonsense

If like me you are Hypersensitive to wasp stings or you are even
more
unlucky to be Allergic to the stings when just one sting can be
life
threatening, then you do all to remove any chance.
If you have a nest in your garden where there is no way of avoiding
it .or
of getting your house full of wasps.
When it comes down to me or them then there is no choice.

They have to go

P.S. If you have a man eating Lion, then you remove that Lion and
don't try
to kill all the Lions on the plain.

How do you use Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 and still
not
have properly formatted messages. Do you deliberately delete the
and
and ... ?

I doubt if you will be able to persuade David to abide by the usual
rules of netiquette. Others have tried and failed, so you will just
have to struggle through his contributions, which are usually worth
reading, despite the missing context, snip marks and attributions.

Franz

Following up to atwifa

just a general point (and likely a contentious one at that): but i've never
come across a good reason for destroying wasps' nests.

Have you ever tried to have a barbecue in late summer? Or this
year, now.

and you need to be somewhat witless to come to any harm around them.

A child with a coke with a wasp in it?

i also find it hardly credible that they have taken *all* your apples ...
unless the tree is very small, that is. if you really want to defend your
crops, then any number of physical (and chemical) deterrents are readily
available.

they have taken virtually all my raspberries. What control method
would you recommend?
--
Mike Reid
If god wanted us to be vegetarians he wouldn't have made animals out of meat.
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to atwifa

my apologies. i had forgotten that some people are at more risk from stings
than just the brief pain and slight swelling. however, since the proportion
of allergic individuals must be relatively small, my general concern about
wiping out whole micro-environments still holds at least partially true,
surely?

You don't have to be allergic if you swallow one in a drink. And
they love beer.
--
Mike Reid
If god wanted us to be vegetarians he wouldn't have made animals out of meat.
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to atwifa

my apologies. i had forgotten that some people are at more risk from stings
than just the brief pain and slight swelling. however, since the proportion
of allergic individuals must be relatively small, my general concern about
wiping out whole micro-environments still holds at least partially true,
surely?

You don't have to be allergic if you swallow one in a drink. And
they love beer.
--
Mike Reid
If god wanted us to be vegetarians he wouldn't have made animals out of meat.
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to David Hill

Remember if my postings are so offensive to your sensibilities then you can
easily Black list me.

I don't post in this group much but I think i'll take you up on
the offer as I have found over the years on usenet that those who
refuse to conform to simple conventions that make life easier for
others are usually pains in the arse in other ways too.
--
Mike Reid
If god wanted us to be vegetarians he wouldn't have made animals out of meat.
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to

I don't post in this group much but I think i'll take you up on
the offer as I have found over the years on usenet that those who
refuse to conform to simple conventions that make life easier for
others are usually pains in the arse in other ways too.

David is an exception, all his posts are well worth reading.

OK, i'll take your work for it and unkill him (is there such a
word?)
--
Mike Reid
If god wanted us to be vegetarians he wouldn't have made animals out of meat.
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

"The Reids" wrote in message
...
Following up to atwifa

[..snipped...]

i also find it hardly credible that they have taken *all* your apples ...
unless the tree is very small, that is. if you really want to defend
your
crops, then any number of physical (and chemical) deterrents are readily
available.

they have taken virtually all my raspberries. What control method
would you recommend?
--
Mike Reid
Hi Mike,

Have you tried making wasp traps?

We used to do this with our victoria plum.

Take a jam jar, (without lid) tie some string around the neck of the jar,
create a hoop on the top. Hang the jar(s) on fruit branches or nearby
supports. Half fill the jars with water mixed with a little jam, honey or
marmalade. Obviously the more fruit trees you have, the more traps you are
likely to want.

HTH

Cheers

Nick
http://www.ukgardening.co.uk

Following up to Nick Gray

Take a jam jar, (without lid) tie some string around the neck of the jar,
create a hoop on the top. Hang the jar(s) on fruit branches or nearby
supports. Half fill the jars with water mixed with a little jam, honey or
marmalade. Obviously the more fruit trees you have, the more traps you are
likely to want.

I might well do that, we have not had a problem previous years
but this year they targetted the rapsberries I wonder if its the
dry weather?
--
Mike Reid
If god wanted us to be vegetarians he wouldn't have made animals out of meat.
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 19:57:41 +0100, atwifa wrote:

which begs another question: if you (as a gardener and an allergenic) had
the power to wipe out wasps utterly ... would you do it? i'm not making
light of the situation by asking, i'm just curious.

Heavens no! Wasps undoubtedly play an important ecological role,
even if we don't fully understand it.

I draw the attention of those interested to the current issue of
Scientific American, wherein the ecological consequences of the
re-introduction of wolves into Yellowstone National Park in
Wyoming, USA, are described. They are all to the good; the wolves
predate herbivores which had been in turn chomping all the young
tree seedlings.

Add wolves, and the trees start to regenerate after the
herbivores themselves are chomped. Who would have foreseen this?

The only folks unhappy are the ranchers around Yellowstone.

--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
[change "atlantic" to "pacific" and
"invalid" to "net" to reply by email]

" This is an interesting piece about wasps
http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/animals/...ite/wasp.shtml


it is indeed, thanks. i've often watched the wasps trying to gather nectar
like many other insects do - and have concluded that they're pretty useless
at it. no wonder they resort to predating on flies and so forth. in which
vein, their skill at killing is of a higher calibre altogether than their
efforts at vegetarianism ... many a time i've seen a wasp take a bluebottle
midair. quite a sight; can't be easy to time the attack correctly. course
it's all instinct i know - but i'm still impressed ;-)

The Reids wrote in
:

they have taken virtually all my raspberries. What control method
would you recommend?

Are you sure this was wasps? The birds had most of mine, though usually
they are not that keen on rasps.

Victoria
--
gardening on a north-facing hill
in South-East Cornwall
--

"Janet Baraclough.." wrote in
message ...
The message
from "Franz Heymann" contains
these words:


30 odd irrelevant re-quoted lines about wasps, lions etc
mercifully
removed in accordance with the rules of netiquette.

I doubt if you will be able to persuade David to abide by the
usual
rules of netiquette. Others have tried and failed, so you will
just
have to struggle through his contributions, which are usually
worth
reading, despite the missing context, snip marks and attributions.

I doubt if you will be able to persuade Franz to abide by the
usual
rules of netiquette. Others have tried and failed, so you will just
have
to struggle through his contributions, which are usually badly
edited
and full of irrelevent content

That is an incorrect statement. Perhaps "sometimes" rather than
"usually" might be more nearly corect, don't you think?

despite his frequent

That is an exaggeration. I would be happy to agree with "occasional"
instead of "frequent".

criticism of other
peoples' use of context and editing technique

Yes. I am a mere mortal. I do tend to under-edit others'
contributions and I am the world's champion typomaker.

Franz

"Janet Baraclough.." wrote in
message ...
The message
from "Franz Heymann" contains
these words:


30 odd irrelevant re-quoted lines about wasps, lions etc
mercifully
removed in accordance with the rules of netiquette.

I doubt if you will be able to persuade David to abide by the
usual
rules of netiquette. Others have tried and failed, so you will
just
have to struggle through his contributions, which are usually
worth
reading, despite the missing context, snip marks and attributions.

I doubt if you will be able to persuade Franz to abide by the
usual
rules of netiquette. Others have tried and failed, so you will just
have
to struggle through his contributions, which are usually badly
edited
and full of irrelevent content

That is an incorrect statement. Perhaps "sometimes" rather than
"usually" might be more nearly corect, don't you think?

despite his frequent

That is an exaggeration. I would be happy to agree with "occasional"
instead of "frequent".

criticism of other
peoples' use of context and editing technique

Yes. I am a mere mortal. I do tend to under-edit others'
contributions and I am the world's champion typomaker.

Franz

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Bigus" wrote in message
...
"atwifa" wrote in message
...

if you really want to defend your
crops, then any number of physical (and chemical) deterrents are
readily
available.

speaking of deterrents, are there any good ones that don't involve
using
chemicals?

What is it that you want to deter?
Playing the bagpipes might deter some unwanted visitors..

I'm not sure that would go down too well with the neighbours, but if I get
desparate I might try it ;-)