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Old 17-08-2004, 11:33 AM
sfc
 
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Default caterpillars on nasturtiums

Hi

My nasturtiums has been atatcked with loads of caterpillars. They are
yello-green with black spots. Any idea what these caterpillars will turn
into? Thanks. Feung


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Old 17-08-2004, 11:38 AM
Sam
 
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"sfc" wrote in message
...
Hi

My nasturtiums has been atatcked with loads of caterpillars. They are
yello-green with black spots. Any idea what these caterpillars will turn
into? Thanks. Feung


I think they are cabbage whites, at least the ones on our nastursiums are
the same as some of the ones shredding our cabbages.

Sam


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Old 17-08-2004, 05:20 PM
GOOD GOLLY MISS mOLLY
 
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"Malcolm" wrote in message
...

In article , Sam
writes

"sfc" wrote in message
...
Hi

My nasturtiums has been atatcked with loads of caterpillars. They are
yello-green with black spots. Any idea what these caterpillars will

turn
into? Thanks. Feung


I think they are cabbage whites, at least the ones on our nastursiums are
the same as some of the ones shredding our cabbages.

The term "cabbage white" actually refers to three different species,
Large White, Small White and Green-veined White. The caterpillars of all
three species feed on cabbages and most other brassicas, and also on
nasturtiums, among other plants.

Yellow-green caterpillars with prominent black spots along the back are
Large White. The other two are both green with small yellow spots with
dark centres along the sides, the main distinction being that Small
White caterpillars live in groups, like Large White, while Green-veined
White caterpillars are usually solitary.

End of biology lesson!

Mine have all been eaten too but I don't care. I enjoyed them while I had
them and next, I will enjoy the butterflies.


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Old 17-08-2004, 06:03 PM
Kay
 
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In article , Malcolm
writes

In article , Sam
writes

"sfc" wrote in message
...
Hi

My nasturtiums has been atatcked with loads of caterpillars. They are
yello-green with black spots. Any idea what these caterpillars will turn
into? Thanks. Feung


I think they are cabbage whites, at least the ones on our nastursiums are
the same as some of the ones shredding our cabbages.

The term "cabbage white" actually refers to three different species,
Large White, Small White and Green-veined White. The caterpillars of all
three species feed on cabbages and most other brassicas, and also on
nasturtiums, among other plants.

We live and learn! I always thought cabbage white was the large white,
and the small white and green veined white were different - I'd
certainly never have referred to either of those as 'cabbage white'.
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

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Old 17-08-2004, 07:01 PM
Nick Maclaren
 
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In article ,
Malcolm wrote:
In article , Kay
writes

I think they are cabbage whites, at least the ones on our nastursiums are
the same as some of the ones shredding our cabbages.

The term "cabbage white" actually refers to three different species,
Large White, Small White and Green-veined White. The caterpillars of all
three species feed on cabbages and most other brassicas, and also on
nasturtiums, among other plants.

We live and learn! I always thought cabbage white was the large white,
and the small white and green veined white were different - I'd
certainly never have referred to either of those as 'cabbage white'.


No, I'm sure you wouldn't and nor would others who have your knowledge
of our fauna and flora, but "cabbage white" is, in my experience, very
widely used as a generic term meaning any white butterfly(1), and as
such is just as imprecise as the term "seagull"!


Precisely.

It is correctly used as a generic term for any whitish butterfly
whose caterpillars live on cabbages, but the most common meaning
is for what you call the large white (i.e. just that one).

(1) My own parents were certainly guilty of this until their budding
(and doubtless irritating) naturalist of a son put them right!


Or put them wrong.

The English language is defined by its usage, and the OED confirms
that the experiences of most people posting to this newsgroup are
typical of English usage. And therefore correct. Real scientists
use scientific terminology when they want to refer to precise genera,
and accept that common English taxonomic terms do not necessarily
map to zoological taxonomic ones.

It is NOT incorrect to use the term with either of its common meanings.

It IS incorrect to use the term as a synonym for the genus Pieris.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


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Old 17-08-2004, 08:13 PM
BAC
 
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"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
snip

It is NOT incorrect to use the term with either of its common meanings.

It IS incorrect to use the term as a synonym for the genus Pieris.



Especially as the Orange-tip, Clouded Yellow and Brimstone are pieridae,
but not 'cabbage whites'.


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Old 17-08-2004, 10:17 PM
Nick Maclaren
 
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In article ,
BAC wrote:

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
snip

It is NOT incorrect to use the term with either of its common meanings.

It IS incorrect to use the term as a synonym for the genus Pieris.


Especially as the Orange-tip, Clouded Yellow and Brimstone are pieridae,
but not 'cabbage whites'.


Yes, but not Pieris. However, I have heard the orange-tip referred
to as a cabbage white, and that is a reasonable use (given that the
term "cabbage" is applied more generally than to just brassica).
A very loose use, true, but then the term is a loose one.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
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Old 17-08-2004, 11:22 PM
Kay
 
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In article , Malcolm
writes


No, I'm sure you wouldn't and nor would others who have your knowledge
of our fauna and flora, but "cabbage white" is, in my experience, very
widely used as a generic term meaning any white butterfly(1), and as
such is just as imprecise as the term "seagull"!

I used to play chess with an enthusiastic 'twitcher' who nevertheless
dismissed a whole section of his interest as 'quackers' :-)
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

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Old 17-08-2004, 11:33 PM
Nick Maclaren
 
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In article ,
Kay wrote:

I used to play chess with an enthusiastic 'twitcher' who nevertheless
dismissed a whole section of his interest as 'quackers' :-)


Not all twitchers are quackers?


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
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Old 18-08-2004, 08:01 AM
Franz Heymann
 
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"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Kay wrote:

I used to play chess with an enthusiastic 'twitcher' who

nevertheless
dismissed a whole section of his interest as 'quackers' :-)


Not all twitchers are quackers?


Most are probably C of E

Franz




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Old 18-08-2004, 10:17 AM
BAC
 
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"Malcolm" wrote in message
...

In article , Franz Heymann
writes

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Kay wrote:

I used to play chess with an enthusiastic 'twitcher' who

nevertheless
dismissed a whole section of his interest as 'quackers' :-)

Not all twitchers are quackers?


Most are probably C of E

I would have thought them more likely to belong to the American sect,
the Shakers.....


Aren't the Shakers extinct?


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Old 18-08-2004, 10:54 AM
Nick Maclaren
 
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In article ,
"BAC" writes:
|
| Aren't the Shakers extinct?

Yes. They had too low a reproduction rate to survive.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
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Old 18-08-2004, 11:50 AM
BAC
 
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Default


"Malcolm" wrote in message
...

In article , BAC
writes

"Malcolm" wrote in message
...

In article , Franz Heymann
writes

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Kay wrote:

I used to play chess with an enthusiastic 'twitcher' who
nevertheless
dismissed a whole section of his interest as 'quackers' :-)

Not all twitchers are quackers?

Most are probably C of E

I would have thought them more likely to belong to the American sect,
the Shakers.....


Aren't the Shakers extinct?

Heading that way, apparently because they don't accept new members!

http://religiousmovements.lib.virgin...s/Shakers.html


Nothing like the RSPB, then! Thanks for that reference - fascinating. So
where does all this nearly new Shaker furniture come from? We should be told
....

thinks
How did we get here from cabbage whites?


By means of thread drift via the usual flirtation with pedantry/pedanticism,
perhaps?


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Old 18-08-2004, 12:44 PM
BAC
 
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"Janet Baraclough.." wrote in message
...
The message
from "BAC" contains these words:


Aren't the Shakers extinct?


Quakers aren't.


Species divergence between Quakers and Shakers occurred ages ago, according
to the excellent potted history posted by Malcolm :-)


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