In article ,
Raymond RUSSELL wrote:

I am against concreting and would prefer to leave the ground underfoot as
natural as possible.
My wife would like to put down about 15 square meters of wood
(is it called "decking" ?) - planks of wood with gaps; but
I reckon weeds and grass seed will get into the gaps between the planks and
run riot.

And the wood will rot.

Any suggestions for the ground underfoot ?
Ideally we would like to leave table and chairs there without them rotting
away from the feet up.

Some sort of paving. The cheapest is 90 cm x 60 cm concrete slabs,
but you can also use bricks, fancy paviors and whatever. See
Cormaic's pages. Doing it properly for a mere patio needs only
the soil compacting and 2" of sharp sand (less if you are stingy
and prepared to take extra time). It isn't hard.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article , Raymond RUSSELL
writes

Any suggestions for the ground underfoot ?
Ideally we would like to leave table and chairs there without them rotting
away from the feet up.


I'd put the table and chairs on slabs. Table would be easy, since you'd
probably want to leave it in the same place all the year round, so you'd
only need slabs at the corners. Chairs more of a problem. What sort of
chairs are you having? If you were using folding ones, you could hang
them up when not actually in use (Am I right in remembering you said
this was against the north wall of a barn or did I imagine that?)

If it's not all in the sun, I would have thought decking could get wet
and slippery especially out of summer.

My inclination would be slabs or gravel, perhaps with planting holes for
aromatic plants. Remember most of the scented herbs (thymes, oregano and
so on) like it hot and well drained, but your Mentha requienii will like
it moist.

Don't forget wallflowers are good for early perfume. Perhaps a bush of
Viburnum bodnantense for perfume in winter (mine has just started
flowering and will be in flower till about March) - others will say
Sarcococca, but it doesn't grow for me. Nicotiana give good late season
scent. In between the wallflowers and the Nicotiana you're spoilt for
choice!
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

Hello all

We're planning a corner of the garden as an area for our summer meals
outdoors.
It's against the north side of a barn, partly but not all in shade,
so that we (and visitors) can choose when to keep in / out of the sun.
It's about 5x3 square meters, with probably some sort of arching to grow
over with vine or creeper.
I plan to flank the area on two or three sides with some sort of scented
rockery,
i.e. chamaemelum nobile , mentha pulegium repens, etc.

I am against concreting and would prefer to leave the ground underfoot as
natural as possible.
My wife would like to put down about 15 square meters of wood
(is it called "decking" ?) - planks of wood with gaps; but
I reckon weeds and grass seed will get into the gaps between the planks and
run riot.

Any suggestions for the ground underfoot ?
Ideally we would like to leave table and chairs there without them rotting
away from the feet up.

Thanks in advance, from Ray

"Raymond RUSSELL" wrote in message
...

Hello all

We're planning a corner of the garden as an area for our summer
meals
outdoors.
It's against the north side of a barn, partly but not all in shade,
so that we (and visitors) can choose when to keep in / out of the
sun.
It's about 5x3 square meters, with probably some sort of arching to
grow
over with vine or creeper.
I plan to flank the area on two or three sides with some sort of
scented
rockery,
i.e. chamaemelum nobile , mentha pulegium repens, etc.

I am against concreting and would prefer to leave the ground
underfoot as
natural as possible.
My wife would like to put down about 15 square meters of wood
(is it called "decking" ?) - planks of wood with gaps; but
I reckon weeds and grass seed will get into the gaps between the
planks and
run riot.

Well, that would help to hide that awful decking and make the area
look a little more natural. {:-))

Franz

On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 15:07:00 +0100, Raymond RUSSELL wrote:

We're planning a corner of the garden as an area for our summer meals...

It's about 5x3 square meters...

I was once told (by someone who knew what they were doing) that
18' x 12' is the minimum size for a deck to be really useful.
That's about 0.5 meter bigger in both dimensions than your
proposed meal area, so I suggest you enlarge your proposed
eating-out area by about a meter in each direction.

The advice I was given was sound, when I added a sun deck to my
old house, I made it 12x18. Had it been any smaller, it would
have been cramped.

My deck was made of 18' long 2x4's (actually 1.5x3.5 inches) with
gaps of 1/8" or 1/4" between them. Close enough together so only
the most stilleto-like of high heels would get caught, far enough
apart to allow rain water to drain through easily.

Many decks here are attached to houses and form the roof of a
carport; these are floored with plywood and then painted with a
special "decking compound" which gives a non-slip waterproof
finish. The decking compound must be renewed every so many years.


I am against concreting and would prefer to leave the ground underfoot as
natural as possible.

I think that is a mistake, You need either paving or, as your
wife suggests, a deck. I can assure you by experience that a
grassy area is fine during dry spells, but when the weather is
wet and the soil soft, it is unusable for the purpose you intend.

My wife would like to put down about 15 square meters of wood
(is it called "decking" ?) - planks of wood with gaps; but

From the remarks I've read here in urg, decks don't work well in
England because your weather is so wet. They're a California
thing and are really only suitable for a fairly sunny climate.

To build a deck here such as your wife envisions is not just a
matter of putting wood on top of the soil. Decks are generally
above grade to match the floor level inside -- anything from half
a meter to two or three meters. They have an understructure of
beams and joists resting on posts. The posts generally have
concrete pads under them so nothing directly touches soil.

I reckon weeds and grass seed will get into the gaps between the planks and
run riot.
Any suggestions for the ground underfoot ?

The area under decks here is invariably either paved or covered
with heavy plastic and a mulch of gravel; hence no weed problem.



An alternative: a proper gazebo with roof, floor, and half-walls,
sited to catch the winter sun. There's something very pleasant
about taking tea outside, sheltered in style from the rain.

Such a gazebo would not be a cheap proposition and almost
certainly not a DIY project unless you have ~very~ good carpentry
skills.

Another alternative: a patio -- a paved area. You have to judge
for yourself whether an unroofed area would be useful.

However, I again refer to the negative remarks made on occasion
by urglers about the general folly of patios and decks in the UK.
I gather that your weather is simply not sunny enough to fully
enjoy facilities largely conceived in sunny California.


--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
[change "atlantic" to "pacific" and
"invalid" to "net" to reply by email]

lid (Rodger Whitlock) wrote in
:

My wife would like to put down about 15 square meters of wood
(is it called "decking" ?) - planks of wood with gaps; but

From the remarks I've read here in urg, decks don't work well in
England because your weather is so wet. They're a California
thing and are really only suitable for a fairly sunny climate.

I think that's a social thing rather than a fact, Roger. Decking seems to
be considered uncool here at the moment, but it is also both popular and
widely used. It probably isn't appropriate in this case, but not because
the UK is a deck-free zone!

We are a maritime nation after all: most of our history wouldn't have
happened if wood became instantly unuseable when slightly damp!

You've just given me a great idea with your mention of deck mounted on a
carport - thanks. I've been wondering how to keep the MX5 dry without
planting a whopping great garage roof in the way of our view...

Victoria
--
gardening on a north-facing hill
in South-East Cornwall
--

In article ,
Victoria Clare writes:
| lid (Rodger Whitlock) wrote in
| :
|
| My wife would like to put down about 15 square meters of wood
| (is it called "decking" ?) - planks of wood with gaps; but
|
| From the remarks I've read here in urg, decks don't work well in
| England because your weather is so wet. They're a California
| thing and are really only suitable for a fairly sunny climate.
|
| I think that's a social thing rather than a fact, Roger. Decking seems to
| be considered uncool here at the moment, but it is also both popular and
| widely used. It probably isn't appropriate in this case, but not because
| the UK is a deck-free zone!

Not really. Decking is worse than paving for getting slippery.
It may not be as bad as is sometimes made out, but is worse than
you imply.

| We are a maritime nation after all: most of our history wouldn't have
| happened if wood became instantly unuseable when slightly damp!

That Does Not Follow. Many woods last a lot better when wet than
when damp, and the algae that cause them to become slippery (inland)
are killed by sea water.

| You've just given me a great idea with your mention of deck mounted on a
| carport - thanks. I've been wondering how to keep the MX5 dry without
| planting a whopping great garage roof in the way of our view...

Why not grow climbers over the car? They have to be good for
something :-)


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

(Nick Maclaren) wrote in news:ch1g0a$a4q$1
@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk:

| We are a maritime nation after all: most of our history wouldn't have
| happened if wood became instantly unuseable when slightly damp!

That Does Not Follow. Many woods last a lot better when wet than
when damp, and the algae that cause them to become slippery (inland)
are killed by sea water.

Sea water does a fine job of making things slippery and/or rotten. So does
fresh water. This I can vouch for from personal experience, having owned
and used a number of wooden boats. Plus, boats are sort of hollow? This
causes them to fill up with rainwater and go green inside...

Nonetheless, Britain is riddled with freshwater lakes, rivers and canals,
and surrounded by sea, much of it populated by people cheerily walking on
wooden surfaces that intermittently get drenched in both fresh and salt
water. A bit of sand in your varnish can do wonders.

Whenever decking is mentioned we always hear this chorus of 'slippery when
wet', yet this never happens when someone asks about lawns. My lawn is
definitely the slipperiest thing in my garden, as it slopes at a steep
angle, and what's more, it's slippery when it's dry too.

Incidentally, talking about unsuitable surfaces, how come we never hear
that slate makes unsuitable paving because it gets so damn hot in the sun?
I burnt my feet on slate paving stones a few weeks ago!

Victoria

In article , Victoria Clare writes:
| (Nick Maclaren) wrote in news:ch1g0a$a4q$1
| @pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk:
|
| | We are a maritime nation after all: most of our history wouldn't have
| | happened if wood became instantly unuseable when slightly damp!
|
| That Does Not Follow. Many woods last a lot better when wet than
| when damp, and the algae that cause them to become slippery (inland)
| are killed by sea water.
|
| Sea water does a fine job of making things slippery and/or rotten. So does
| fresh water. This I can vouch for from personal experience, having owned
| and used a number of wooden boats. Plus, boats are sort of hollow? This
| causes them to fill up with rainwater and go green inside...

That Is Not True. Yes, wood at least under high tide mark goes
slippery, but the algae that do it (it is NOT, repeat NOT, the
water that does) do not thrive unless they are washed with sea
water pretty regularly. And the algae that make things slippery
inland ARE killed by sea water.

We are talking about flat surfaces, NOT actually washed by the
sea, lakes etc. on a daily basis and designed to NOT collect water.
If YOUR garden is below high tide mark, or otherwise under water
much of the time, I recommend moving.

| Nonetheless, Britain is riddled with freshwater lakes, rivers and canals,
| and surrounded by sea, much of it populated by people cheerily walking on
| wooden surfaces that intermittently get drenched in both fresh and salt
| water. A bit of sand in your varnish can do wonders.

On the contrary. Unless they are walked on enough to stop the
algal growth, such surfaces get lethally slippery. Sand helps,
but NOT enough to stop the algal problem. And, to repeat, sea
water wetting is ENTIRELY different from rainwater wetting.

| Whenever decking is mentioned we always hear this chorus of 'slippery when
| wet', yet this never happens when someone asks about lawns. My lawn is
| definitely the slipperiest thing in my garden, as it slopes at a steep
| angle, and what's more, it's slippery when it's dry too.

Not as slippery, and I am almost certainly more sensitive to that
than you are.

| Incidentally, talking about unsuitable surfaces, how come we never hear
| that slate makes unsuitable paving because it gets so damn hot in the sun?
| I burnt my feet on slate paving stones a few weeks ago!

A few days a year, at most.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.