Hi All. I hope you don't mind me asking the following question, but I
really don't know where else to ask. My fiance is planning on leaving his
present employment (he's already a gardener) and setting up by himself,
doing garden maintenance, renovations, clearance, hedge reductions etc. He
has done quite a bit of research, but doesn't know how much to charge - he
doesn't want to go round under-cutting other established gardeners, but then
doesn't want to charge too much. We thought perhaps £8-£10 per hour (we are
in Midlands region), would be a reasonable charge. Any thoughts or advice
on how we could find further help in deciding on costs would be very much
appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Tracey

"Tracey" wrote in message
...
Hi All. I hope you don't mind me asking the following question, but I
really don't know where else to ask. My fiance is planning on leaving his
present employment (he's already a gardener) and setting up by himself,
doing garden maintenance, renovations, clearance, hedge reductions etc.
He
has done quite a bit of research, but doesn't know how much to charge - he
doesn't want to go round under-cutting other established gardeners, but
then
doesn't want to charge too much. We thought perhaps £8-£10 per hour (we
are
in Midlands region), would be a reasonable charge. Any thoughts or advice
on how we could find further help in deciding on costs would be very much
appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Tracey


In my experience as a consumer of such services in Ireland: he can charge
just about anything he pleases ;-)
Seriously, you could always ring up a number of local contractors and ask
them to quote you for a variety of jobs in your own garden. And/or rope in
a few friends and relatives to do the same. That should give you a ball
park. Just a thought. Good luck!


--
Cat(h)
The world swirls...

"Tracey" wrote in message
...
Hi All. I hope you don't mind me asking the following question, but I
really don't know where else to ask. My fiance is planning on leaving his
present employment (he's already a gardener) and setting up by himself,
doing garden maintenance, renovations, clearance, hedge reductions etc.
He
has done quite a bit of research, but doesn't know how much to charge - he
doesn't want to go round under-cutting other established gardeners, but
then
doesn't want to charge too much. We thought perhaps £8-£10 per hour (we
are
in Midlands region), would be a reasonable charge. Any thoughts or advice
on how we could find further help in deciding on costs would be very much
appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Tracey


Hi Tracey

Starting up on your own is a huge minefield in that there are many problems
which until you atart, are not seen. It's rather interesting in that in a
book I wrote quite some time ago called 'The New Business Minefield' I
actually used a gardener who worked for the local council in the Parks
department, as an example on how to start. Still on the computer somewhere
and I have been meaning to get it published.

1) Can he start on his own in the evenings, (bit difficult now that the
evenings are getting shorter) and weekends and built up a customer base
slowly?
2) Contact the local Chamber of Commerce and see if they have any advice or
leaflets on starting a business.
3) Get in touch with your local Technical Colledge and see if they do
courses. I used to lecture on a Business Startup Programme.
4) Make a few enquiries as to what the going rate is and the best way of
this is to ask. If you see a Gardener working on someone's garden and you
are able to talk to them, ask them what they charge per hour for general
grass cutting and tending to borders "As you are thinking of getting someone
in to do yours, do you have a card please?"
5) Many areas have Small Business Clubs, join one. These are cluibs where
business people meet and discuss local topics, and one which I was on the
committee, we would discuss the bad payers!!
6)Advertising. Henry Ford once said "Hald of my advertising budget is
wasted, the trouble is, I don't know which half" so monitor your
advertising. Do very small adverts to start with, use the same format, and
make the advert regular and if you can state your experience in years, then
do so. (Don't forget to add anohter year to the advert as they roll by)
7) Don't get a special bank account. Use an ordinary account, possibly with
a Building Society. Keep ALL of your receipts, even when you go into a cafe
for a cuppa half way through the morning, you 'might' be able to book that
agains expenses, even if it is only 5 minutes from home.
8) Don't go and buy a new van a load of new equipment and have big flashy
signs made. Don't bother with headed paper and business cards, you can do
them yourself on the computer.
9) Talk to an Accountant with regards to Insurance, not an Insurance Agent,
he will be biassed towards his pocket.
10) Holidays. Who pays for your holidays now? Who will pay for them when
self employed? Too much work? Get friendly with a fellow gardener and see if
you can come to an agreement to offload, but be careful, if he is better
than you, you may lose a customer :-((
11) Who will service your customers if you fall ill?
12) STAY ON YOUR OWN, do NOT even contemplate a partnership. Stay small
where YOU are in control

Some to be going on with?

Plenty more where that came from, gained from my own experience as a Sole
Trader, a Partner, and as MD of a Limited Company, and from friends and
collegues who either are or have been in business.

Finally, working for yourself is great.......... when it is working! When
things go wrong you ask yourself, 'Why the hell did I do this?'!!

Mike


--
British Pacific Fleet Reunion Birmingham September 17th - 20th
H.M.S.Collingwood Assoc. Mini Reunion Weekend at Coventry Sept 24th - 27th
Nat. Service (RAF) Assoc. AGM & Reunion Hayling Island 8th - 11th October
www.nsrafa.com

"Cat" wrote in message
...


"Tracey" wrote in message
...
Hi All. I hope you don't mind me asking the following question, but I
really don't know where else to ask. My fiance is planning on leaving
his
present employment (he's already a gardener) and setting up by himself,
doing garden maintenance, renovations, clearance, hedge reductions etc.
He
has done quite a bit of research, but doesn't know how much to charge -
he
doesn't want to go round under-cutting other established gardeners, but
then
doesn't want to charge too much. We thought perhaps £8-£10 per hour (we
are
in Midlands region), would be a reasonable charge. Any thoughts or
advice
on how we could find further help in deciding on costs would be very
much
appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Tracey


In my experience as a consumer of such services in Ireland: he can charge
just about anything he pleases ;-)
Seriously, you could always ring up a number of local contractors and ask
them to quote you for a variety of jobs in your own garden. And/or rope
in
a few friends and relatives to do the same. That should give you a ball
park. Just a thought. Good luck!


--
Cat(h)
The world swirls...

Thanks Cath! I know my auntie's gardener (she's in Scarborough,
N.Yorkshire) charges £25 just for mowing her grass, and she doesn't have a
particularly big lawn, seems way over-priced to me. Will probably go with
ringing a few gardeners up round here and pretend I'm a prospective
customer!

Tracey

"Mike" wrote in message
...
"Tracey" wrote in message
...
Hi All. I hope you don't mind me asking the following question, but I
really don't know where else to ask. My fiance is planning on leaving
his
present employment (he's already a gardener) and setting up by himself,
doing garden maintenance, renovations, clearance, hedge reductions etc.
He
has done quite a bit of research, but doesn't know how much to charge -
he
doesn't want to go round under-cutting other established gardeners, but
then
doesn't want to charge too much. We thought perhaps £8-£10 per hour (we
are
in Midlands region), would be a reasonable charge. Any thoughts or
advice
on how we could find further help in deciding on costs would be very
much
appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Tracey


Hi Tracey

Starting up on your own is a huge minefield in that there are many
problems
which until you atart, are not seen. It's rather interesting in that in a
book I wrote quite some time ago called 'The New Business Minefield' I
actually used a gardener who worked for the local council in the Parks
department, as an example on how to start. Still on the computer somewhere
and I have been meaning to get it published.

1) Can he start on his own in the evenings, (bit difficult now that the
evenings are getting shorter) and weekends and built up a customer base
slowly?
2) Contact the local Chamber of Commerce and see if they have any advice
or
leaflets on starting a business.
3) Get in touch with your local Technical Colledge and see if they do
courses. I used to lecture on a Business Startup Programme.
4) Make a few enquiries as to what the going rate is and the best way of
this is to ask. If you see a Gardener working on someone's garden and you
are able to talk to them, ask them what they charge per hour for general
grass cutting and tending to borders "As you are thinking of getting
someone
in to do yours, do you have a card please?"
5) Many areas have Small Business Clubs, join one. These are cluibs where
business people meet and discuss local topics, and one which I was on the
committee, we would discuss the bad payers!!
6)Advertising. Henry Ford once said "Hald of my advertising budget is
wasted, the trouble is, I don't know which half" so monitor your
advertising. Do very small adverts to start with, use the same format, and
make the advert regular and if you can state your experience in years,
then
do so. (Don't forget to add anohter year to the advert as they roll by)
7) Don't get a special bank account. Use an ordinary account, possibly
with
a Building Society. Keep ALL of your receipts, even when you go into a
cafe
for a cuppa half way through the morning, you 'might' be able to book that
agains expenses, even if it is only 5 minutes from home.
8) Don't go and buy a new van a load of new equipment and have big flashy
signs made. Don't bother with headed paper and business cards, you can do
them yourself on the computer.
9) Talk to an Accountant with regards to Insurance, not an Insurance
Agent,
he will be biassed towards his pocket.
10) Holidays. Who pays for your holidays now? Who will pay for them when
self employed? Too much work? Get friendly with a fellow gardener and see
if
you can come to an agreement to offload, but be careful, if he is better
than you, you may lose a customer :-((
11) Who will service your customers if you fall ill?
12) STAY ON YOUR OWN, do NOT even contemplate a partnership. Stay small
where YOU are in control

Some to be going on with?

Plenty more where that came from, gained from my own experience as a Sole
Trader, a Partner, and as MD of a Limited Company, and from friends and
collegues who either are or have been in business.

Finally, working for yourself is great.......... when it is working! When
things go wrong you ask yourself, 'Why the hell did I do this?'!!

Mike


--
British Pacific Fleet Reunion Birmingham September 17th - 20th
H.M.S.Collingwood Assoc. Mini Reunion Weekend at Coventry Sept 24th - 27th
Nat. Service (RAF) Assoc. AGM & Reunion Hayling Island 8th - 11th October
www.nsrafa.com


Thank you, Mike, for your thorough and excellent advice, I'll take a print
out of it and show my fiance when he gets in from work.

He already has six people lined up who would want regular work doing, so
it's a start. Originally he thought it would be best if he took a part-time
job doing whatever and slowly build up the gardening, eventually making this
a full time thing, but he is having more and more requests as the weeks go
by when he tells people he's thinking of going it alone, so we really think
he can make a go of it straight away. I have designed him some business
cards on the computer and will do some leaflets for him too, so we are
keeping costs to a minimum. He is going to use the Chamber of Commerce and
a local business club.

My fiance has worked hard all his life (twenty years or so out there in the
workforce) and is sick and tired of working his butt off with little
appreciation from the fat cat boss and for little pay. The job he's doing
at the moment has him tending to around 260 gardens - he is paid little
over the minimum wage and my fiance and his work-mate did the maths and
worked out they are getting paid around £1.20 per garden!

I truly believe he can make this work, we realise there is a risk involved
when setting up on your own, but I think sometimes in life it's worth taking
a risk! He's a damned hard worker, is organised, thorough and never has
days off sick, so I'm sure if anyone can make it work he can. Fingers
crossed anyway!!!

Thanks again for your advice, it's much appreciated!

Tracey

Thank you, Mike, for your thorough and excellent advice, I'll take a print
out of it and show my fiance when he gets in from work.

If there is something which comes to mind and is not covered by the examples
and advice I shoved out, come back to me and I will see what I can do.


He already has six people lined up who would want regular work doing, so
it's a start. Originally he thought it would be best if he took a
part-time
job doing whatever and slowly build up the gardening, eventually making
this
a full time thing, but he is having more and more requests as the weeks go
by when he tells people he's thinking of going it alone, so we really
think
he can make a go of it straight away.

He has made a very good start in talking to people and telling them what he
wants to do. If he, and you ;-) carry on doing this, then advertising in the
press, Yellow Pages (Very expensive and a waste of time for what he wants to
do), local radio etc will not be needed. (Local Radio adverts are a waste of
time too, but I can explain why later)

I have designed him some business
cards on the computer and will do some leaflets for him too, so we are
keeping costs to a minimum.

There is no need, in what he wants to do, to spend any money on printing as
you have a computer. I do have Business Cards, BUT, that is because the
company I arrange the reunions with 'is' a big business and where I am
'representing them' as opposed to it being my business, then the 'Corporate
Image' follows through. For you, a computer leaflet will do. (And here is
another tip, when he has a customer, when he finishes for the
day/job/whatever it is, ask them if they are happy with his work and if yes,
hand them half a dozen leaflets for friends and neighbours. Better to have 2
customers alongside each other, than 1 here and the other over the other
side of town. Isle of Wight in my case:-))


He is going to use the Chamber of Commerce and
a local business club.

Good. If he gets the chance and is invited to do so, tell him to join the
committee of any business club or Chamber of Commerce. THAT alone generates
work!! and gets him well known :-))


My fiance has worked hard all his life (twenty years or so out there in
the
workforce) and is sick and tired of working his butt off with little
appreciation from the fat cat boss and for little pay. The job he's doing
at the moment has him tending to around 260 gardens - he is paid little
over the minimum wage and my fiance and his work-mate did the maths and
worked out they are getting paid around £1.20 per garden!

Something you and he must take into consideration, is travelling time. If he
leaves home at 8.00, gets to his first job at 8.20. Does 3 hours work and
then has another distance to travel between the next couple of jobs, then
his working time @ £X /hour, when spread over the working, or 'out of home'
hours, can be 1/3£X/hour, which if not careful, can be less than he is on
now. Travelling time is a killer and MUST be taken into consideration.
"£40.00 and you have only been here an hour???!!"


I truly believe he can make this work, we realise there is a risk involved
when setting up on your own, but I think sometimes in life it's worth
taking
a risk! He's a damned hard worker, is organised, thorough and never has
days off sick, so I'm sure if anyone can make it work he can. Fingers
crossed anyway!!!

A chap I worked for said to me 'Mike, when a customer shouts 'JUMP', I jump,
and on the way up I ask 'How High Sir?' Basically the Customer is King and
is very important to you. The customer can be an absolute barstard, but you
mustn't show it has got to you ;-))

Getting money in, and on time is an important factor. Easy when you know how
;-) I was lucky in that one of the Business Clubs I belonged to had a super
system :-))


Thanks again for your advice, it's much appreciated!

Been there and I know the thrill :-))

Good luck. (That comes into it a lot and I can help you be in the right
place in the right time :-))


Tracey

Keep us informed

Mike

On 31/8/04 12:32 pm, in article , "Tracey"
wrote:

Hi All. I hope you don't mind me asking the following question, but I
really don't know where else to ask. My fiance is planning on leaving his
present employment (he's already a gardener) and setting up by himself,
doing garden maintenance, renovations, clearance, hedge reductions etc. He
has done quite a bit of research, but doesn't know how much to charge - he
doesn't want to go round under-cutting other established gardeners, but then
doesn't want to charge too much. We thought perhaps £8-£10 per hour (we are
in Midlands region), would be a reasonable charge. Any thoughts or advice
on how we could find further help in deciding on costs would be very much
appreciated.


This will be affected to some extent by his experience, whether he provides
his own tools and machinery and whether he is really a gardener, or someone
who will do the heavy work in the garden. When you say he is already a
gardener, do you mean that he can propagate plants and knows how to treat
sickly ones, for example?
Here in South Devon prices range enormously, from a pensioner who wants just
to keep going and earn a bit as well at £6.00 per hour for doing some
weeding, to £25 or more for the highly experienced & trained, who take sole
charge of a garden and even more if they design it, too.
Speaking roughly, general garden maintenance here is £10 per hour for those
who are just keeping lawns cut, hedges trimmed etc.
I'd suggest the best bet is to find out what others charge, as has been
suggested and then put up some cards in local shops and post offices and in
parish magazines.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

and in
parish magazines.

This really is a valid point and very fruitful. The Parish magazine extends
to the bounds of 'the parish', thereby cutting down on travelling time
which is so important because it is 'dead money'.

'Dead Money' is another facet of being self employed and is another cost
which has to be considered. When I opened my second factory, the 'Dead
Money' to me, such as Rent, Rates, Gas Standing Charge, Electric Standing
Charge, Telephone rental and Insurance, i.e. money which HAD to be paid no
matter what, was £7.00 PER HOUR, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week including
Sunday, Christmas Day etc etc. and that was before the lights were switched
on and a member of staff walked through the door. (I had 2 factories and 24
staff, so they HAD to be efficient and monitored, but the staff were superb
:-)))))))))) even so, THAT is why it is better to work out of the
garage/garden shed/back of the car if possible.

Soooooooooooooooo much to take into consideration, but as I said before,
great when it works and I would do it all over again, but at nearly
70............................................. :-))

"Tracey" wrote in message ...
Hi All. I hope you don't mind me asking the following question, but I
really don't know where else to ask. My fiance is planning on leaving his
present employment (he's already a gardener) and setting up by himself,
doing garden maintenance, renovations, clearance, hedge reductions etc. He
has done quite a bit of research, but doesn't know how much to charge - he
doesn't want to go round under-cutting other established gardeners, but then
doesn't want to charge too much. We thought perhaps £8-£10 per hour (we are
in Midlands region), would be a reasonable charge. Any thoughts or advice
on how we could find further help in deciding on costs would be very much
appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Tracey

==================================

It is VERY hard work to start with but ALWAYS worth it.

I would suggest appraoching other gardening compaines and
subcontracting out to them on an as and when basis, essentially a
spare pare of hands.

Some would say winter is bad for the business but actually there is
always work to be done at any time of year.

Get skills you may lack such as some building and joinery, enough to
do good decking and stone patio work. This will allow you to offer a
wider range of services - more one stop shop. Patio work is also VERY
profitable, you can charge around £50 ish p/sqmtr for block paving
which is about £12 p/sqmtr for materials including sub base.

I "know a friend" who had 25s/mtr of lovely block paving done by a man
starting out for £900, he worked his boll#@Ks off and got it done in
two days. It was cash in hand and 30% cheaper than anyone else.

Cash in hand work is not recommended, it is uprofessional and
illegal...(WINK WINK know what I mean).

Get trade accounts from B&Q, and commercial nurseries, avoid paying
retail.

Build a photographic portfolio of before and after shots. Tweak a few
friends gardens to get stated, nothing major just enough to create
some initla images.

Go to Business Link or similar, after all its a business, learn the
ins-and- outs of business managment such as payroll, profit and loss,
business plans etc.

NEVER work at a loss unless you will gain MASSIVLEY in other ways.

Make a big A board to advertise your business and ensure it can be
seen by the nieghbours when your onsite, this method is industry
standard for paving and other diy companies.

Dont bother with a website. You will be highly localised at first.

Never carry stock, buy only when you need it.

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 12:32:57 +0100, Tracey wrote:

He has done quite a bit of research, but doesn't know how much to
charge - he doesn't want to go round under-cutting other established
gardeners, but then doesn't want to charge too much.

So ring around a few of the local gardeners and ask what they would
charge on the pretence of wanting their services. You can also
approach from the other side, ask friends and neighbours what they
would think reasonable or be prepared to pay.

My father has someone to come and mow the grass, pays him a tenner,
mower and fuel supplied. Probably takes less than an hour.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On 31/8/04 7:32 pm, in article ,
"Martin" wrote:

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 18:12:34 +0100, Sacha
wrote:


I'd suggest the best bet is to find out what others charge, as has been
suggested and then put up some cards in local shops and post offices and in
parish magazines.

Isn't there a problem finding work during the winter months?

Yes, almost certainly. Some such gardeners work by preparing new gardens,
re-jigging old ones, doing other jobs, finding work in nurseries (very
scarce in winter).
--

Sacha

"Tracey" wrote in news:2pjfmsFloj71U1@uni-
berlin.de:

He is going to use the Chamber of Commerce and
a local business club.


Chambers of commerce vary, but I've found them fairly universally useless,
and membership can be surprisingly expensive. For that kind of business,
I'd be inclined to spend the money on Yellow Pages instead.

It's probably not worth paying for a professional website, but I think it
is worth spending an evening assembling a simple one and hosting it free
with your ISP, if you have the skills to do that.

If you don't, try http://www.blogger.com/start,where you can build a free
site by basically filling in some forms.

Either way, remember to state clearly what the business does (gardening,
garden maintenance, lawn mowing...) , where it is based, and try to mention
the names of local towns and villages too, so search engines can find you.

It won't make your fortune, but you should get the odd enquiry that way,
and people who have mislaid the card or leaflet will still be able to get
hold of him.

Victoria
--
Clare Associates Ltd
http://www.clareassoc.co.uk/
--

"Mike" wrote in message
Hi Tracey

Starting up on your own is a huge minefield

snip loads of useful advice

Some other tips:
1. Public liability insurance, as well as personal insurance, is a
good investment. Also insurance against loss of earnings for (say) up
to 20 days sickness a year. Backstrain, sprained ankles, cut fingers,
things in the eye do happen.
2. Check on the local weather statistics. There may only be (say)
160 days a year he can work, so he needs to budget to make a years
income in 160 days.
3. Have some fall-back jobs for the winter, or rainy days, even if
it's only washing and disinfecting wheelybins, drain rodding, gutter
clearance and repairs, something like that.
4. Always, no matter how difficult, present a smart appearance.
Polish the shoes/boots, wear the same colour overalls every day, and
make sure they are clean and pressed. When I drove a mobile shop we
had to go into people's homes so I wore smooth soled shoes, not
cleated boots. But steel toecaps are a must, and they must look
clean.
5. Be careful of the cost of advertising. The best investment is
probably signwriting on the van, the worst may well be local
newspapers. Not sure leaflet drops achieve a lot. Word of mouth is
the finest sales technique, so never do half a job.
6. Exposure. He's in the trade so he should know about sunblock,
hats, long sleeves, etc. But it's fearfully important in the long
run.

Cash in hand work is not recommended, it is uprofessional and
illegal...(WINK WINK know what I mean).


I very strongly go along with this. Be quite open with people, "Everything I
do goes through the books".

Cannot remember who it was, but they quoted for a job and the wife of the
household was dealing with him, telling him what was wanted etc. and when it
came to the price, she winced and asked if there was any way he could reduce
it. It was a big job and I feel it was in the Window Replacement field and
he didn't want to lose it. He had drawn a breath to say 'A cash job?' when
she spoke first, "My husband is a VAT Inspector and might very well be able
to recommend you".

The above example would possibly not apply to a 'Servicing Gardener' because
he would get to know the customers well, but there is always the first
meeting with a new customer!!!!

On another point, someone recommended Yellow Pages. Please bear in mind that
the order form you fill in for Yellow Pages could be for publication of up
to 2 years in advance depending when the order is made and the last issue
delivered..

Just a few more points

Mike

advertising in the
press, Yellow Pages (Very expensive and a waste of time for what he wants to
do)

I thought yellow pages would be expensive too, but no! For a one line
ad it is free and the same with white pages too. For any more space
they charge an arm and a leg. The free ad is just
Name-Address-Phonenumber so I mutated my business name into "Anna
Kettle Parget and Lime"

Anna
~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Lime plaster repairs
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642