On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 01:35:51 GMT, "JeffC"
wrote:

For those interested in technicalities, the following may be of use

http://www.fluidmech.net/tutorials/ocean/tsunami.htm
http://www.es.flinders.edu.au/%7Emat...lecture10.html


--
Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net

In article ,
Franz Heymann wrote:

No foresight needed for the first - look up the history of the
tunnel - it was first proposed in the 18th century and preliminary
work started in the 19th.

The atom bomb was also speculated in the 19th century, but I now
forget the reference.

Impossible.

Don't be ridiculous. I said 'speculated', not 'built'.

The structure of the atom was only discovered well into the 20th
century, and the energy equivalence of mass was only suggested in
1905.

So? Many things were speculated centuries or millennia before the
underlying science for them was known. All you need is enough of a
clue to formulate a well-specified hypothesis and an imagination.
All right, damn few people have either, but some people have had
since time immemorial.

Many 'primitive' peoples had beliefs involving ancestral relationships
between apes and men. The heliocentric solar system dates from some
time before Christ. Rocket-driven space travel was speculated before
Newton's laws of motion were formulated.

I speculated that there could be non-nuclear DNA years before
mitochondrial DNA was discovered. In fact, I also speculated quite a
lot of other things about DNA, many of which are turning out to be
partially true. I have discovered since that time that a fair number
of other people had made similar speculations, some well before I did.



Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 22:18:03 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


If you were to crack a book on hydrodynamics you will find that there
are essentially four different types of wave in an ideal non-viscous
liquid

Capillary waves
Surface waves
Deep water waves
Solitons

(actually, there are also linear combinations of the first two)

Capillary waves are what you get if you induce a wave by vibrating a
tuning fork witih one tine just touching the liquid
Surface waves are what you normally see on the surface of the ocean
before they break near the shore. That includes the so-called "Giant
waves". These are simply distinguished by having a very large
amplitude of oscillation. In both those types of wave any "piece" of
water moves vertically up and down.
In the case of a deep water wave, any *piece" of water executes a
circular motion, with the diameter of the circle equal to the depth of
the water.
Both tidal waves and tsunamis are synonyms for deep water waves.
In the open ocean with a constant depth, a deep water wave is
essentially harmless and may pass practically unnoticed.

In the links I posted earlier (see below) and which seemed
authoritative, tsunamis were described as shallow water waves, despite
propagating in deep water. I assumed this meant their characteristics
place them in the 'shallow water wave' category, and didn't mean they
only appear in shallow water. I am now confused.

http://www.fluidmech.net/tutorials/ocean/tsunami.htm
http://www.es.flinders.edu.au/%7Emat...lecture10.html

It only
becomes dangerous when it meets a sloping ocean floor, so that the
nornal circular motion can no longer be accomodated. It is at that
stage that it begins to "suck" in water ahead of it and begins to pile
up in height.

That would certainly fit the descriptions coming from survivors, who
talked about the tide going right out very rapidly, before the crest
of the wave arrived. But I also heard that it doesn't always happen
this way, depending on whether a crest or a trough hits the shore
first. And wouldn't this also occur with any type of wave? They all
presumably have peaks and troughs.

Solitons are peculiar beasts in which certain specifically-shaped
transient surface disturbances can move unchanged in shape.

Franz




--
Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net

--
(remove the troll to reply)

Always look on the bright side of life (De do, de do, de doody doody do)


"Douglas" wrote in message
news

JeffC Wrote:
--
(remove the troll to reply)

Always look on the bright side of life (De do, de do, de doody doody
do)


Funny how you remember these things, I recall it from when I was
whisteling it as it was in the monty Python film, and it went something
like:

'always look on the the bright side of lif, Slu-ur, toungue, tongue,
tongue, tongue, slu-ur......'

If you are going to whistle it, then at least get it right!

I'll get me coat.


--
Douglas


I can' t whistle!

I'm given to unstandand the reason why the IOW and the rest of the south
coast for that matter is sinking is due to the fact that the highlands of
Scotland are still rising as a result of the "decompression" of the
subterrain from the relief of pressure from the last ice age. So like a
seesaw, the north of Britain is rising while the south of Britain is
sinking.

--
(remove the troll to reply)

Always look on the bright side of life (De do, de do, de doody doody do)


"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Mike" wrote in message
...
What are the views of those on uk.rec.gardening if it happens, and
who will
it effect?

I am about 50 metres inland from the Cliff Walk between Sandown and
Shanklin
on the Isle of Wight and about 50 metres above sea level. But the
Island
could very well become 3 Islands again.

Unless I am mistaken, there is no plate boundary nearby, nor are there
any active submarine volcanoes around there, so you will probably be
OK. I think you will be reasonably shielded from that island in the
Canaries, part of which is expected to dslide off into the Atlantic at
any time now. They say when it goes, that will be the end of New
York.

Franz

JeffC wrote:

I'm given to unstandand the reason why the IOW and the rest of the south
coast for that matter is sinking is due to the fact that the highlands of
Scotland are still rising as a result of the "decompression" of the
subterrain from the relief of pressure from the last ice age. So like a
seesaw, the north of Britain is rising while the south of Britain is
sinking.

As there was me thinking it was because they ate more pies oop north.

John B

In message , Nick Maclaren
writes
In article ,
Franz Heymann wrote:

"Kay" wrote in message
...

[snip]

The meat has the name of the animal in the language of the
conquering
classes who ate it, while the animal retains the language of the
conquered who grew it.

At least it works for boeuf and mouton, but I'm not sure where pork
comes from - the latin? - is it the modern french that has moved
away?

And when did you last see a piece of mutton for sale, or offered on a
menu?

We had some 12 days ago. It has been relegalised.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Why was it illegalised?
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting

"JeffC" wrote in message
...
I'm given to unstandand the reason why the IOW and the rest of the south
coast for that matter is sinking is due to the fact that the highlands of
Scotland are still rising as a result of the "decompression" of the
subterrain from the relief of pressure from the last ice age. So like a
seesaw, the north of Britain is rising while the south of Britain is
sinking.

Quick - all up to Scotland and jump up and down....

--
Brian
Henry Fielding: "All Nature wears one universal grin"

In article ,
hugh wrote:

And when did you last see a piece of mutton for sale, or offered on a
menu?

We had some 12 days ago. It has been relegalised.

Why was it illegalised?

BSE. Our Lords and Masters wanted to ensure that animals were killed
before they showed signs of BSE, to make it easier to claim that the
country was BSE free.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
hugh wrote:

And when did you last see a piece of mutton for sale, or offered
on a menu?

We had some 12 days ago. It has been relegalised.

Why was it illegalised?

BSE. Our Lords and Masters wanted to ensure that animals were
killed
before they showed signs of BSE, to make it easier to claim that
the
country was BSE free.

And the public fell for it, as usual. Somebody wrote in the Grauniad
last week "Do they think we're stupid?"; I couldn't be bothered to
reply, "Yes, of course they do: you swallowed all the other cons,
after all." (Sorry: feeling hacked off, as my mother's in a
Maggie-Tony hospital.)

Mike.

On 9/1/05 19:54, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote:

In article ,
hugh wrote:

And when did you last see a piece of mutton for sale, or offered on a
menu?

We had some 12 days ago. It has been relegalised.

Why was it illegalised?

BSE. Our Lords and Masters wanted to ensure that animals were killed
before they showed signs of BSE, to make it easier to claim that the
country was BSE free.

For beef cattle that was before 30 months, I think. What was it for sheep,
do you know?
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 22:18:03 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


If you were to crack a book on hydrodynamics you will find that
there
are essentially four different types of wave in an ideal
non-viscous
liquid

Capillary waves
Surface waves
Deep water waves
Solitons

(actually, there are also linear combinations of the first two)

Capillary waves are what you get if you induce a wave by vibrating
a
tuning fork witih one tine just touching the liquid
Surface waves are what you normally see on the surface of the ocean
before they break near the shore. That includes the so-called
"Giant
waves". These are simply distinguished by having a very large
amplitude of oscillation. In both those types of wave any "piece"
of
water moves vertically up and down.
In the case of a deep water wave, any *piece" of water executes a
circular motion, with the diameter of the circle equal to the depth
of
the water.
Both tidal waves and tsunamis are synonyms for deep water waves.
In the open ocean with a constant depth, a deep water wave is
essentially harmless and may pass practically unnoticed.

In the links I posted earlier (see below) and which seemed
authoritative, tsunamis were described as shallow water waves,
despite
propagating in deep water. I assumed this meant their
characteristics
place them in the 'shallow water wave' category, and didn't mean
they
only appear in shallow water. I am now confused.

I am confused as to why the first link calls them "shallow waves"
The waves which I called "deep water waves" are those with a speed of
sqrt(gh), and a rolling particle motion, where g is the graviational
acceleration and h is the depth of the ocean floor. Why he calls the
same waves shallow water waves and then produces a a calculation for
the speed in a 4 km deep ocean is beyond me. Shallow water waves
have, so to speak, no knowledge of the depth of the ocean. They are
the ones I called surface waves.
The same link also gives an incorrect impression of what is known as a
tidal wave. My view of what constitutes a tidal wave is not just the
normal "steady" progression of the tide, but occurs in those (few)
local geographical circumstances where the tidal rise enters a
constricted region in which a deep water wave can be excited.

http://www.fluidmech.net/tutorials/ocean/tsunami.htm
http://www.es.flinders.edu.au/%7Emat...lecture10.html

It only
becomes dangerous when it meets a sloping ocean floor, so that the
nornal circular motion can no longer be accomodated. It is at that
stage that it begins to "suck" in water ahead of it and begins to
pile
up in height.

That would certainly fit the descriptions coming from survivors, who
talked about the tide going right out very rapidly, before the crest
of the wave arrived. But I also heard that it doesn't always happen
this way, depending on whether a crest or a trough hits the shore
first. And wouldn't this also occur with any type of wave? They all
presumably have peaks and troughs.

It happens to surface waves as well, as witness the usual breakers on
a beach just before they break, but not to capillary waves. The
latter are purely surface tension effects and are independent of water
depth.

Incidentally, what I call surface waves are also known as gravity
waves.

Solitons are peculiar beasts in which certain specifically-shaped
transient surface disturbances can move unchanged in shape.

Franz

"Sacha" wrote in message
k...
On 8/1/05 19:18, in article ,
"Franz
Heymann" wrote:


"Kay" wrote in message
...

[snip]

The meat has the name of the animal in the language of the
conquering
classes who ate it, while the animal retains the language of the
conquered who grew it.

At least it works for boeuf and mouton, but I'm not sure where
pork
comes from - the latin? - is it the modern french that has moved
away?

And when did you last see a piece of mutton for sale, or offered
on a
menu?

Franz



Frequently at our butcher but not on a menu, no.

All the butchers within a 30 mile radius of here sell only lamb.

Franz

On 10/1/05 11:07, in article , "Franz
Heymann" wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
k...
On 8/1/05 19:18, in article ,
"Franz
Heymann" wrote:
snip

And when did you last see a piece of mutton for sale, or offered
on a
menu?

Franz



Frequently at our butcher but not on a menu, no.

All the butchers within a 30 mile radius of here sell only lamb.

Ours started either early last year, or possibly the year before - my
memory! And I said I hadn't seen it on a menu but now recall that I've seen
one pub serving it.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

On 10/1/05 9:40, in article ,
" wrote:


Seen from a boat
http://www.yachtaragorn.com/Thailand.htm

This is a fascinating and moving account, Martin. Thanks very much.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)