slightly OT - de-mineralised water and de-ionised water re watering houseplants.
I recently purchased a steam iron that requires de-mineralised water.
The instructions say not to use de-ionised water (ie the stuff you put in car batteries) in the iron but that de-mineralised water can be used to water houseplants. You cannot purchase de-mineralised water in the UK, so I have had to buy a plastic jug and some cartridges of grey granules, (presumably permutit or similar) through which you pass the water. Here are my questions, with apologies in advance for their number: Can someone please explain the difference between de-mineralised water and de-ionised water? How does the water become de-mineralised by passing quite quickly through the granules? (I am told that after several uses, when the grey granules turn brown, they are ready to discard). Does it work in the same way as a water softener? The water here is very hard, so I cannot understand how the same granules can de-mineralise any type of water. What benefit, if any, is there to houseplants by using de-mineralised water? Many thanks in advance. -- June Hughes |
June Hughes wrote:
Can someone please explain the difference between de-mineralised water and de-ionised water? IIRC, The crystals are called "ion exchange," substituting sodium for calcium; not good for many things including people watching their sodium intake. Are you sure you can't get distilled water there? It's a common grocery store item in the U.S. Of course, a lot of people here buy bottled water which is often inferior to the municipal water from their tap. Don't get me started on that one... I hadn't thought of using melted freezer ice for watering sensitive plants; I have a huge chest type freezer, and it's due for defrosting; winter is a good time, because I can just stack the contents on the floor of an unheated garage while I do the deed. One of those little electric "cube" heaters with fan stuck inside on an upended plastic milk crate does the trick in short order. Just so as to not veer too far off-topic, I'm testing a bunch of stored seeds for germination, in an electric oven with just the inside light bulb turned on. Holds nicely at 80F/25C or so. Cheers! Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G |
In message , Janet Baraclough
writes The easiest cheapest way to save your steam iron or houseplants from hard water minerals, is to use rainwater. Failing that, if you have an old-fashioned freezer that requires periodic defrosting, bottle some melted ice. Both waters have previously evaporated then condensed again, which means they don't contain any appreciable amount of groundwater minerals. Unfortunately, my freezer has no ice and the outside water is channelled on to the garden, although I could redirect it to a container for houseplants. I still can't understand how a few seconds filtering through the grey granules de-mineralises water. -- June Hughes |
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"June Hughes" wrote in message ... I recently purchased a steam iron that requires de-mineralised water. The instructions say not to use de-ionised water (ie the stuff you put in car batteries) in the iron but that de-mineralised water can be used to water houseplants. You cannot purchase de-mineralised water in the UK, so I have had to buy a plastic jug and some cartridges of grey granules, (presumably permutit or similar) through which you pass the water. Here are my questions, with apologies in advance for their number: Deionising cartridges contain deionising resins. If I remember rightly, Permutit is not a deioniser proper, but replaces positive ions by Sodium ions. It is esentially only a water softener. I suspect that what your instructions mean is that you should use permutit to soften the water, because it is the Calcium and Magnesium ions found in hard water which make scaly deposits which are replaced by Permutit. Can someone please explain the difference between de-mineralised water and de-ionised water? Deionising means replacing all positively and negatively charged ions by the H and OH ions of water itself. Deionising produces the purest possible water--- even purer than distilled water. It is a relatively expensive process to deionise water. Demineralising in the present context sounds to me like softening the water.. How does the water become de-mineralised by passing quite quickly through the granules? (I am told that after several uses, when the grey granules turn brown, they are ready to discard). The deionising and softening resin granules are pretty hungry for ions and work fast. When the deionising resin changes colour, it is ready to be discarded. Permutit, on the other hand, can be recharged by soaking it in a concentrated solution of kitchen salt. Does it work in the same way as a water softener? The water here is very hard, so I cannot understand how the same granules can de-mineralise any type of water. See above What benefit, if any, is there to houseplants by using de-mineralised water? Almost none, except if you have lime-hating plants. Franz |
"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message ... The easiest cheapest way to save your steam iron or houseplants from hard water minerals, is to use rainwater. Rainwater can be fairly acid nowadays. Failing that, if you have an old-fashioned freezer that requires periodic defrosting, bottle some melted ice. Both waters have previously evaporated then condensed again, which means they don't contain any appreciable amount of groundwater minerals. That sounds clever. Franz |
"June Hughes" wrote in message ... In message , Janet Baraclough writes The easiest cheapest way to save your steam iron or houseplants from hard water minerals, is to use rainwater. Failing that, if you have an old-fashioned freezer that requires periodic defrosting, bottle some melted ice. Both waters have previously evaporated then condensed again, which means they don't contain any appreciable amount of groundwater minerals. Unfortunately, my freezer has no ice and the outside water is channelled on to the garden, although I could redirect it to a container for houseplants. I still can't understand how a few seconds filtering through the grey granules de-mineralises water. It does. Franz |
"Franz Heymann" wrote in message ... [snip] When the deionising resin changes colour, it is ready to be discarded. Permutit, on the other hand, can be recharged by soaking it in a concentrated solution of kitchen salt. Addendum: And rinsing it in tap water before use, to remove the free salt. Franz |
In message , Franz Heymann
writes "June Hughes" wrote in message ... snip What benefit, if any, is there to houseplants by using de-mineralised water? Almost none, except if you have lime-hating plants. Franz It just gets better and better. Many thanks, Franz. -- June Hughes |
In message ,
writes On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 21:31:16 +0000, June Hughes wrote: In message , writes On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 18:49:53 +0000, June Hughes wrote: In message , writes There's an explanation here http://www.lenntech.com/deionised-de...ised-water.htm That is exactly what I wanted, Martin. Thank-you so much. I actually understood it:) Fascinating. Now explain it to me :-) g Saved by Franz, eh? :-) I read your post first (ie before that of Franz) but now I see what you mean:) -- June Hughes |
June Hughes wrote:
In message , Franz Heymann writes "June Hughes" wrote in message ... snip What benefit, if any, is there to houseplants by using de-mineralised water? Almost none, except if you have lime-hating plants. Franz It just gets better and better. Many thanks, Franz. Water does funny things to people's brains, though. A while back one of the Cheltenham papers carried an article by a "nutritionist" solemnly revealing that a certain kind of water was easier to _digest_ than the competition. I was much tickled by the idea of water being broken down into its constituents in somebody's gut, and spent some time working out how I might trigger an explosive recombination of hydrogen and oxygen in somebody's body. Like the Thai fire-eater who most unfortunately ended his earthly career by getting hiccups a year or two ago. Today's Guardian's Bad Science column has a less catastrophic one. Apparently there's Penta water, which is "ultra-purified, restructured micro-water": "By disrupting the naturally occurring molecule clusters in water with high-energy sound waves, they are able to pass more easily through the body's cell membranes, quenching the thirst better." This is known as "optimal cellular hydration". Good to know somebody's cracked the age-old problem of over-sized clusters of water molecules, isn't it? Mike. |
Mike Lyle wrote:
June Hughes wrote: In message , Franz Heymann writes "June Hughes" wrote in message ... snip What benefit, if any, is there to houseplants by using de-mineralised water? Almost none, except if you have lime-hating plants. Franz It just gets better and better. Many thanks, Franz. Water does funny things to people's brains, though. A while back one of the Cheltenham papers carried an article by a "nutritionist" solemnly revealing that a certain kind of water was easier to _digest_ than the competition. I was much tickled by the idea of water being broken down into its constituents in somebody's gut, and spent some time working out how I might trigger an explosive recombination of hydrogen and oxygen in somebody's body. Like the Thai fire-eater who most unfortunately ended his earthly career by getting hiccups a year or two ago. Today's Guardian's Bad Science column has a less catastrophic one. Apparently there's Penta water, which is "ultra-purified, restructured micro-water": "By disrupting the naturally occurring molecule clusters in water with high-energy sound waves, they are able to pass more easily through the body's cell membranes, quenching the thirst better." This is known as "optimal cellular hydration". Good to know somebody's cracked the age-old problem of over-sized clusters of water molecules, isn't it? Sorry, I missed out the really exciting bit. Apparently they got the Daily Mirror to believe that this new improved water will "increase the body's cell-survival by over 200%." Some of us could be drawing our pensions for an awfully long time. Why aren't people put in jail for this kind of thing? Mike. |
In message , Mike Lyle
writes Sorry, I missed out the really exciting bit. Apparently they got the Daily Mirror to believe that this new improved water will "increase the body's cell-survival by over 200%." Some of us could be drawing our pensions for an awfully long time. Why aren't people put in jail for this kind of thing? I have now read it. (Yesterday's Guardian). Very odd. I am a bit surprised at Waitrose magazine. Haven't read that yet. -- June Hughes |
"June Hughes" wrote in message ... In message , Mike Lyle writes Sorry, I missed out the really exciting bit. Apparently they got the Daily Mirror to believe that this new improved water will "increase the body's cell-survival by over 200%." Some of us could be drawing our pensions for an awfully long time. Why aren't people put in jail for this kind of thing? I have now read it. (Yesterday's Guardian). Very odd. I am a bit surprised at Waitrose magazine. Haven't read that yet. -- June Hughes Nice site that explains about molecule clusters in water which apparently can exist http://www.chem1.com/acad/sci/abou****er.html "Clustered", "Unclustered" and other structure-altered watersThe "alternative" health market is full of goofy products which purport to alter the structure of water by stabilizing groups of H2O molecules into permanent clusters of 4-8 molecules, or alternatively, to break up what they claim are the larger clusters (usually 10-15 molecules) that they say normally exist in water. The object in either case is to promote the flow of water into the body's cells ("cellular hydration"). This is of course utter nonsense; there is no credible scientific evidence for any of these claims, many of which verge on the bizarre. There are even some scientifically absurd U.S. Patents for the manufacture of a "clustered" form of water. At least 20 manufacturers offer nostrums of this kind to the scientifically-naive public through hundreds of Web sites and late-night radio "infomercials". None of these claims is supported by credible evidence. |
On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 15:22:44 GMT, "suspicious minds"
wrote: Nice site that explains about molecule clusters in water which apparently can exist http://www.chem1.com/acad/sci/abou****er.html "Clustered", "Unclustered" and other structure-altered watersThe "alternative" health market is full of goofy products which purport to alter the structure of water by stabilizing groups of H2O molecules into permanent clusters of 4-8 molecules, or alternatively, to break up what they claim are the larger clusters (usually 10-15 molecules) that they say normally exist in water. The object in either case is to promote the flow of water into the body's cells ("cellular hydration"). This is of course utter nonsense; there is no credible scientific evidence for any of these claims, many of which verge on the bizarre. There are even some scientifically absurd U.S. Patents for the manufacture of a "clustered" form of water. At least 20 manufacturers offer nostrums of this kind to the scientifically-naive public through hundreds of Web sites and late-night radio "infomercials". None of these claims is supported by credible evidence. Reminds me of 'polywater', which was the buzz of the scientific world about thirty years ago. After extensive research and no doubt much expenditure, it turned out to be traces of silicone grease from the glass stopcocks on the apparatus, IIRC. -- Chris E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net |
Quote "alternative" health market is full of goofy products which purport to alter the structure of water by stabilizing groups of H2O molecules into permanent clusters of 4-8 molecules, or alternatively, to break up what they claim are the larger clusters (usually 10-15 molecules) that they say normally exist in water". end Quote
I was demonstrating my membrane osmosis houseplant watering technology at an inventors show a couple of years back and was approached by a woman who tried to convince me of the benefits of this new "healthier" water - for plants. She even tried to get me to drink! I did a bit of research and found that the water was just passed through a ceramic filter which they claimed was polarised or magnetised or similar - thus imparting similar properties to the water. I'm a chemist and work with hydrogels so know a bit about water structures. The claims were nonsense and the company behind this particular water were really promoting a type of pyramid selling scheme. Anyways - If yer tap water's no good just use some good, healthy Scottish mineral water ;-) Chris |
The message
from Chris_Moran contains these words: Anyways - If yer tap water's no good just use some good, healthy Scottish mineral water ;-) I wish! What comes out of my tap IS good healthy Scottish mineral water, from a limestone bore deep under a rural island, deserted hillside, with zero chance of industrial, agricultural or human pollution. Sadly, it's then contaminated with an EEC dose of chlorine added at the public water-destruction works. Smells and tastes like swimmingpool. We filter all our drinking and cooking water, and the water used on houseplants. People here who still enjoy a chemical-free private water supply have just been told that if they supply it to the public (paying guests or clients) it must comply with EEC standards, determined by an annual test at the owner's expense (£600). Janet. (Isle of Arran) |
Janet Baraclough wrote: People here who still enjoy a chemical-free private water supply have just been told that if they supply it to the public (paying guests or clients) it must comply with EEC standards, determined by an annual test at the owner's expense (=A3600). I have friends who live in a small rural Spanish community whose water supply is gravity fed from a communal tank. Said tank is filled with pure sweet water from a privately owned, deep water well. The owner of this well has neatly sidestepped this EU directive by personally delivering a letter to each homeowner informing them that his water is unsuitable for human consumption and should only be used for sanitary purposes, while verbally re-assuring them that he will continue to supply water fit for the king. Jo |
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