Pronunciation
 

I've always pronounced "Ceanothus" as "Key-An-Oh-Thus", with the
emphasis on the "An". Is this correct, or am I completely wrong (does
it have a soft C for example).

My neighbour pronounces "Cotoneaster" as "Cott-On-Ee-Aster" (Emphasis
on the "Ee") whereas I have always thought of it as if it were the two
words "Cotton-Easter" - is he right and me wrong again? :-)

Bob

Pronunciation
 

"Bob" wrote in message
om...
I've always pronounced "Ceanothus" as "Key-An-Oh-Thus", with the
emphasis on the "An". Is this correct, or am I completely wrong (does
it have a soft C for example).

My neighbour pronounces "Cotoneaster" as "Cott-On-Ee-Aster" (Emphasis
on the "Ee") whereas I have always thought of it as if it were the two
words "Cotton-Easter" - is he right and me wrong again? :-)

Bob

My votes a

"see an O thus"

"cotto NEE aster"

pk

Pronunciation
 

"Bob" wrote in message
om...
I've always pronounced "Ceanothus" as "Key-An-Oh-Thus", with the
emphasis on the "An". Is this correct, or am I completely wrong (does
it have a soft C for example).

My neighbour pronounces "Cotoneaster" as "Cott-On-Ee-Aster" (Emphasis
on the "Ee") whereas I have always thought of it as if it were the two
words "Cotton-Easter" - is he right and me wrong again? :-)

Bob

From The Collingridge Dictionary of Plant Names

Ceanothus - kee-a-no-thus

Cheers

Nick

Pronunciation
 

"Bob" wrote in message
om...
I've always pronounced "Ceanothus" as "Key-An-Oh-Thus", with the
emphasis on the "An". Is this correct, or am I completely wrong (does
it have a soft C for example).

My neighbour pronounces "Cotoneaster" as "Cott-On-Ee-Aster" (Emphasis
on the "Ee") whereas I have always thought of it as if it were the two
words "Cotton-Easter" - is he right and me wrong again? :-)

Bob
Sorry missed the second one

Again from The Collingridge Dictionary of Plant Names

Cotoneaster - ko-ton-ee-a-ster

Cheers

Nick

Pronunciation
 

in article , Bob at
wrote on 11/12/02 9:45 am:

I've always pronounced "Ceanothus" as "Key-An-Oh-Thus", with the
emphasis on the "An". Is this correct, or am I completely wrong (does
it have a soft C for example).

My neighbour pronounces "Cotoneaster" as "Cott-On-Ee-Aster" (Emphasis
on the "Ee") whereas I have always thought of it as if it were the two
words "Cotton-Easter" - is he right and me wrong again? :-)

Bob
Ah the joys of pronunciation of Latin plant names! Seeanothus and
CotOhneeeaster is our method. But Ray and I have frequent friendly disputes
on these things - so does everyone else, I should think. Take Kniphofia. We
pronounce it "Niphoffia" but friends of ours pronounce it "Nyefofia" - I say
CLEMatis and Ray says CleMAYtis - we say Daylia, friends say Dalia etc. etc.
;-)
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk

Pronunciation
 

"sacha" wrote in message after another Bob:

I've always pronounced "Ceanothus" as "Key-An-Oh-Thus", with the
emphasis on the "An". Is this correct, or am I completely wrong (does
it have a soft C for example).

kee-a-no-thus (a hard c, it's Latin )


My neighbour pronounces "Cotoneaster" as "Cott-On-Ee-Aster" (Emphasis
on the "Ee") whereas I have always thought of it as if it were the two
words "Cotton-Easter" - is he right and me wrong again? :-)

ko-ton-ee-a-ster.

.. Take Kniphofia. We
pronounce it "Niphoffia" but friends of ours pronounce it "Nyefofia"

nee-fof-ee-a

- I say
CLEMatis and Ray says CleMAYtis -

klem-a-tis

we say Daylia, friends say Dalia

dah-lee-a

all from The Collingridge Dictionary of Plant Names written by Allen.J
..Coombes ex Head of Latin at Eton. He's sorted out many a dispute in our
household. :-)

He says in his introduction that it all depends on where the name came from,
i.e. if it's from a town, person etc then it's pronounced that way if it's
from the Latin then it should be pronounced the Latin way, i.e. all "C's"
are hard as in cat.

Now try... Coelogyne :-) (p.s. it's an Orchid family)


--
Regards
Bob

Use a useful Screen Saver...
http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/
and find intelligent life amongst the stars, there's bugger all down here.

pronunciation
 

"Sue & Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...
(with some edits):
all from The Collingridge Dictionary of Plant Names written by Allen.J
.Coombes ex Head of Latin at Eton. He's sorted out many a dispute in our
household. :-)

He says in his introduction that it all depends on where the name came
from,
i.e. if it's from a town, person etc then it's pronounced that way if it's
from the Latin then it should be pronounced the Latin way, i.e. all "C's"
are hard as in cat.

Is there really 'correct' pronunciation ? More common pronunciation maybe.
For grass I say gr'arse, others say gr'ass. And being a southerner, I know
gr'arse is the 'correct' pronunctiation :o) It's the joy of accents IMO.
But then my mother always wanted me to have elocution lessons; dropped
aitches are the real sin you know ...

Diane
PS. For the record, it's clem-a-tis, red hot poker, and those evergreen
plants with lots of berries on it but without the prickles, got one in the
garden, you know, birds love it...

Pronunciation
 

"Sue & Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...

.Coombes ex Head of Latin at Eton. He's sorted out many a dispute in our
household. :-)

He says in his introduction that it all depends on where the name came
from,
i.e. if it's from a town, person etc then it's pronounced that way if it's
from the Latin then it should be pronounced the Latin way, i.e. all "C's"
are hard as in cat.

Now try... Coelogyne :-) (p.s. it's an Orchid family)


--
Regards
Bob

Trouble is we live in a country where even comman words are not prounaunced
the same all over, growing up in the south I say water with an r (warter)
but most people I come across from further up would argue there is no r so
it should rhyme with cat. The result is when ever I turn up to do a talk on
Clematis I can be sure it will be the first question I am asked, how do YOU
say it. A word derived from the Greek written in Latin, spoken in English
(with possible a regional accent) I seldom dare venture an opinion :~)

--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)

pronunciation
 

In article , "flake"
wrote:

"Sue & Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...
(with some edits):
all from The Collingridge Dictionary of Plant Names written by Allen.J
.Coombes ex Head of Latin at Eton. He's sorted out many a dispute in our
household. :-)

He says in his introduction that it all depends on where the name came
from,
i.e. if it's from a town, person etc then it's pronounced that way if it's
from the Latin then it should be pronounced the Latin way, i.e. all "C's"
are hard as in cat.
snip
- and he says: Kis-tus (from greek)- *but* comforting, A.T.Johnson in
"Plant names simplified" says sis-tus!In Sweden we use the principle (some
of us ;-) that in latin plante-names the C in front of a soft vowel
(e,i,y) is pronounciated soft like s, and before a hard vowel(a,o,u) we
use the hard k. Such as sistus and kotoneaster.
But I have experienced that latin (that is, it is often greek ;-) is very
different from contry to country in it's pronounciation - but very handy
to use reading catalouges and botany-litterature abroad.
Cheers vera

--
VERA GADE NORRKOPING
VERA @GADE.SE

Pronunciation
 

Or spelt by the looks of it!

:-)

"Charlie Pridham" wrote in message
...

snip

Trouble is we live in a country where even comman words are not
prounaunced
the same all over, growing up in the south I say water with an r (warter)

Pronunciation
 

I've always pronounced "Ceanothus" as "Key-An-Oh-Thus", with the
emphasis on the "An". Is this correct, or am I completely wrong
(does
it have a soft C for example).

My neighbour pronounces "Cotoneaster" as "Cott-On-Ee-Aster"
(Emphasis
on the "Ee") whereas I have always thought of it as if it were the
two
words "Cotton-Easter" - is he right and me wrong again? :-)

My old latin teacher used to say it didn't matter how you pronounced it
as it is a dead language so as long as it is written correctly we were
fine!!

That said "c'tony aster" and "key a noh thus"

Jay

Pronunciation
 

snip My old latin teacher used to say it didn't matter how you pronounced it
as it is a dead language so as long as it is written correctly we were
fine!!
snip
Jay

Or at another angle:
"Oh, come with old Khayyam, and leave the Wise
To talk; one thing is certain, that Life flies;
One thing is certain, and the rest is Lies;
The Flower that once has blown for ever dies".

(In Swedish we have a translation like this: I try to write it back in English).
Let the wise men talk and lay down
in the scent of roses, in the smiling sun
One thing is certain, that life flies
The flower that once has blown for ever dies.
Vera

--
VERA GADE NORRKOPING
VERA @GADE.SE

pronunciation
 

"Vera Gade" wrote in message
...
..
But I have experienced that latin (that is, it is often greek ;-) is very
different from contry to country in it's pronounciation - but very handy
to use reading catalouges and botany-litterature abroad.
Cheers vera

The good news is there aren't too many native speakers of botanic latigreek
to flame us.

Rod

Pronunciation
 

In article , Sue & Bob Hobden
writes

Now try... Coelogyne :-)

That's the one my mother always called 'colly ogny'
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/garden/

pronunciation
 

I've missed many posts on this topic for some reason, but I remember hearing on
a TV programme very many years ago that K's were pronounced at the beginning of
words such as knife, knowledge, etc. up till the 17 or 1800's. Languages
change and vary from region to region, even within the same country. A French
teacher of mine once told me how she (English) had to translate so that two
French teachers could communicate because their regional accents made it
impossible for them to understand each other.

With regard to Latin and Greek names, it has to be remembered that Latin in the
form used for scientific names and terms is pronounced differently the world
over. It is a 'dead' language with no definitive root that can be refered to.
Latin and Greek used by us in the naming of plants is not the same as the
Italian and Greek spoken today.

I think it's worth thinking of Latin/Greek as being like French, when spoken by
a range of nationalities serving in the French Foreign Legion. No doubt Latin
was no different, with a tremendous range of pronounciations for each word
within the language, all depending on where each person came from within (or
indeed without) the Roman empire.

Of course, that doesn't touch on cultivars, which are pronounced depending on
the nationality of the person they are named after, and are usually
mis-pronounced.

Alas, a true can of worms I fear.

Dave.

Pronunciation
 

On Thu, 12 Dec 2002 20:37:52 +0000, Kay Easton
wrote:

In article , Sue & Bob Hobden
writes

Now try... Coelogyne :-)

That's the one my mother always called 'colly ogny'

Erm the accepted version appears to be:

See-loj-jin-knee with a slight emphasis on the first and last
syllable.

David Poole
TORQUAY UK

Pronunciation
 

"Kay wrote in message

Now try... Coelogyne :-)

That's the one my mother always called 'colly ogny'
--
All right then it's correctly Koy-lo-gin-ee (as it's Latin) but commonly
it's called
see-lo-gie-nee. :-)
Pronounced it wrongly for years until an Orchid nurseryman out Greenham
Common way (Thatched Lodge Orchids*) told be otherwise.
*sadly long gone.
--
Bob

www.pooleygreengrowers.org.uk/ about an Allotment site in
Runnymede fighting for it's existence.

Pronunciation
 

In article , Sue & Bob Hobden
writes

"Kay wrote in message

Now try... Coelogyne :-)

That's the one my mother always called 'colly ogny'
--
All right then it's correctly Koy-lo-gin-ee (as it's Latin)

But isn't coelacanth from the same root? And that's not Koylacanth.

I was always taught that oe was pronounced ee as in onomatopoeia

Though the vainy veedy veechy school would pronounce coeli as chayli


--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/garden/

Pronunciation
 

Sue & Bob Hobden wrote:

"sacha" wrote in message after another Bob:

I've always pronounced "Ceanothus" as "Key-An-Oh-Thus", with the
emphasis on the "An". Is this correct, or am I completely wrong (does
it have a soft C for example).

kee-a-no-thus (a hard c, it's Latin )

Actually its Greek, from keanothus, meaning 'plant with spiny leaves'. Proper
pronunciation of the Greek would give you kee-a-no-thus, just as you indicate.
However, on the west coast of North America, the native habitat of the majority
of ceanothus species, and throughout the rest of North America, it is pronounced
see- a-no-thus. The convention for pronouncing botanical Latin in this country
is to pronounce the 'c' as soft when followed by the vowels e, i or y and hard
when followed by any other letter.

Pronunciation of plant names tends to be very regional in approach - as long as
one is understood when talking about the plant, it really makes no difference
one way or another. You cannot imagine the garbled plant names one hears working
at a retail nursery - sometimes it is nearly impossible to distinguish to what
plant they are referring and other times the result is just plain funny. I often
recall the older lady asking for "penis neegra". However, it is NOT considered
good form to laugh at the customers :-))

pam - gardengal




My neighbour pronounces "Cotoneaster" as "Cott-On-Ee-Aster" (Emphasis
on the "Ee") whereas I have always thought of it as if it were the two
words "Cotton-Easter" - is he right and me wrong again? :-)

ko-ton-ee-a-ster.

. Take Kniphofia. We
pronounce it "Niphoffia" but friends of ours pronounce it "Nyefofia"

nee-fof-ee-a

- I say
CLEMatis and Ray says CleMAYtis -

klem-a-tis

we say Daylia, friends say Dalia

dah-lee-a

all from The Collingridge Dictionary of Plant Names written by Allen.J
.Coombes ex Head of Latin at Eton. He's sorted out many a dispute in our
household. :-)

He says in his introduction that it all depends on where the name came from,
i.e. if it's from a town, person etc then it's pronounced that way if it's
from the Latin then it should be pronounced the Latin way, i.e. all "C's"
are hard as in cat.

Now try... Coelogyne :-) (p.s. it's an Orchid family)

--
Regards
Bob

Use a useful Screen Saver...
http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/
and find intelligent life amongst the stars, there's bugger all down here.

Pronunciation
 

In article , Sue & Bob Hobden
writes

"Kay wrote in message

Now try... Coelogyne :-)

That's the one my mother always called 'colly ogny'
--
All right then it's correctly Koy-lo-gin-ee (as it's Latin) but commonly
it's called
see-lo-gie-nee. :-)
Pronounced it wrongly for years until an Orchid nurseryman out Greenham
Common way (Thatched Lodge Orchids*) told be otherwise.
*sadly long gone.

A neighbouring gardener of ours was having some skin problems from
plants and was prescribed an ointment called 'Cicatrin' (Wellcome).
The ointment works very well, but how is its name pronounced?
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

Pronunciation
 

snip
A neighbouring gardener of ours was having some skin problems from
plants and was prescribed an ointment called 'Cicatrin' (Wellcome).
The ointment works very well, but how is its name pronounced?
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

I am very keen on the phonetic-transcription-system (how would I ever else
learn how to pronounce "neighbouring"?) But unfortunately it isn't on my
computer and neither on yours, I think. So we try to manage as best we can
- that's very confusing. I beg for a FAC on the topic, where some able
person will try to make a system we all (hm, most of us) can adopt in our
efforts to describe our pronounciation.
Hej (e as in hel) from vera

--
VERA GADE NORRKOPING
VERA @GADE.SE

Pronunciation
 

The message
from Alan Gould contains these words:


A neighbouring gardener of ours was having some skin problems from
plants and was prescribed an ointment called 'Cicatrin' (Wellcome).
The ointment works very well, but how is its name pronounced?

Siccatrin....according to my last GP. Good stuff :-)

In English, C followed by I or E is soft (cinder, certain). C
followed by O, A and U is hard as in condor, curtain, and cup.

Janet.

Pronunciation
 

"Pam" wrote in message
...


Sue & Bob Hobden wrote:

"sacha" wrote in message after another Bob:

I've always pronounced "Ceanothus" as "Key-An-Oh-Thus", with the
emphasis on the "An". Is this correct, or am I completely wrong
(does
it have a soft C for example).

kee-a-no-thus (a hard c, it's Latin )

Actually its Greek, from keanothus, meaning 'plant with spiny leaves'.
Proper
pronunciation of the Greek would give you kee-a-no-thus, just as you
indicate.
However, on the west coast of North America, the native habitat of the
majority
of ceanothus species, and throughout the rest of North America, it is
pronounced
see- a-no-thus. The convention for pronouncing botanical Latin in this
country
is to pronounce the 'c' as soft when followed by the vowels e, i or y and
hard
when followed by any other letter.

I always knew it to be see-a-no-thus as well and everyone else I know round
these here parts (Kingston, Surrey) calls it that. I would guess that none
of us studied Latin though which would explain the mispronunciation :) you
live and learn

Nicky

Pronunciation
 

In article , Janet Baraclough
writes
The message
from Alan Gould contains these words:


A neighbouring gardener of ours was having some skin problems from
plants and was prescribed an ointment called 'Cicatrin' (Wellcome).
The ointment works very well, but how is its name pronounced?

Siccatrin....according to my last GP. Good stuff :-)

Having checked Chambers, the word seems to be based on cicatrice - pron.
sik-a tris, which is a scar tissue over a healed wound. Very apt!

In English, C followed by I or E is soft (cinder, certain).
Except for cinema, sometimes pron. kinema, and Celt - kelt.
C
followed by O, A and U is hard as in condor, curtain, and cup.


--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.