Hello,

Looking for some advice, for a few years now I have been trying to lay
a decent lawn with little success. The area has been for a very long
time home to all sorts of angry looking weeds and although I have
cleared them and used all sorts of toxic stuff, they still come back. I
don't need advice on how to get rid of them I've had all sorts from
experts up and down the country in 3 years. Now I am just fedup and
want to try something I've invented myself so here's the question (at
long last you say);

I'm not a gardner but I have used that black cloth covering stuff to
block out weeds around my boarders and that seems to work well. My plan
for the lawn is to dig it up (again) and lay some of the black covering
cloth down. Then I plan to put the turf right on top. The idea being
while the weeds can't get up the grass roots should be able to dig
down. I'm sure I'm have to water it very well for a while.

Will it work ?

Can anyone help ?

boing wrote:
Hello,

Looking for some advice, for a few years now I have been trying to
lay
a decent lawn with little success. The area has been for a very
long
time home to all sorts of angry looking weeds and although I have
cleared them and used all sorts of toxic stuff, they still come
back.
I don't need advice on how to get rid of them I've had all sorts
from
experts up and down the country in 3 years. Now I am just fedup
and
want to try something I've invented myself so here's the question
(at
long last you say);

I'm not a gardner but I have used that black cloth covering stuff
to
block out weeds around my boarders and that seems to work well. My
plan for the lawn is to dig it up (again) and lay some of the black
covering cloth down. Then I plan to put the turf right on top. The
idea being while the weeds can't get up the grass roots should be
able to dig down. I'm sure I'm have to water it very well for a
while.

Will it work ?

Can anyone help ?

I really wouldn't bother. I'd say, ask yourself if you really want a
100% grass lawn. Then ask why. What's it for? Putting green? Bowls?
Winning a competition? You mention none of these, so I assume you're
a normal human being.

Just mow it twice a week, and enjoy life. If a particular weed
happens to get up your nose now and then, dig the blighter out when
you happen to feel like it.

The turf-on-landscape-fabric idea might work, but it will never
produce a fully self-sustaining lawn, which is obviously what you
want and need as you can't get the normal treatments to work. The
problem will be, as you say, that it will need watering -- and
feeding -- far too often, because the grass roots won't be able to
get below the membrane in sufficient numbers. And it probably
wouldn't drain well in bad weather. It'll upset the moles a bit,
though!

Mike.

Thanks for the prompt reply Mike, I can understand what you are saying
but I couldn't keep to anything like twice a week for mowing. Thats one
of the problems I have, by the time I see the weeds they have spread
from the edge of the grass into my boarders.
I'm thinking if I get the black stuff down, turf it and get a year
without these buggers I can then assess it. I can always peel the turf
up and take the black stuff away then re-lay the turf in a few hours.
Just don't want the truf to die on me :-)

boing wrote:
Thanks for the prompt reply Mike, I can understand what you are
saying
but I couldn't keep to anything like twice a week for mowing. Thats
one of the problems I have, by the time I see the weeds they have
spread from the edge of the grass into my boarders.
I'm thinking if I get the black stuff down, turf it and get a year
without these buggers I can then assess it. I can always peel the
turf
up and take the black stuff away then re-lay the turf in a few
hours.
Just don't want the truf to die on me :-)

OK, so it's a time problem, not a horticultural one. Maybe pay
somebody to come in and cut the grass every week?

Mike.

boing wrote:
Thanks for the prompt reply Mike, I can understand what you are saying
but I couldn't keep to anything like twice a week for mowing. Thats one
of the problems I have, by the time I see the weeds they have spread
from the edge of the grass into my boarders.
I'm thinking if I get the black stuff down, turf it and get a year
without these buggers I can then assess it. I can always peel the turf
up and take the black stuff away then re-lay the turf in a few hours.
Just don't want the truf to die on me :-)

It surely will die if you put black weed fabric underneath it.

It really isn't that hard to take a bad lawn and make it good again. Use
appropriate weed & feed at the right time of year, sow some grass seed
in the obvious dead bits and a lawn can be as good as new in 6 weeks.

Cutting once a week will do at a pinch to suppress weeds. If you want a
decent lawn you have to work at it. You can't lay expensive turf and
expect it to stay alive if you are too bone idle to look after it!

These instant gratification effect buy & die garden makeover shows have
a lot to answer for. Improve your garden - bury a Titchmarsh!

Regards,
Martin Brown

Blimey bad day Martin ? or member of the Assumptions Soc.?

Grass seed ? I've done it and I've paid someone to do it who told me it
was the only way to go. Thats was two lawns ago.

Bone idle ? I expect you do your gardening in the dark then ?, I don't
have to explain my self to you but for long times I am away working.

Titchmarsh ? Yes I watched that last week from an hotel room at 3am in
the morning.

I'm sure the are people on here who are a bit more open minded then
you. I don't wish to continue this with you as I'm sure you'll get on
to imigration sooner of later.

Done that last time, I got the idea from the bloke next door.
He layed is lawn on concrete 2 years ago and it's still looking fine.
I think he might have put some topsoil on first but I can do that and
set my sprinkler to come when needed.

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 20:43:12 +0000, boing wrote:
Hello,

Looking for some advice, for a few years now I have been trying to
lay a decent lawn with little success. The area has been for a very
long time home to all sorts of angry looking weeds and although I
have cleared them and used all sorts of toxic stuff, they still
come back. I don't need advice on how to get rid of them I've had
all sorts from experts up and down the country in 3 years. Now I
am just fedup and want to try something I've invented myself so
here's the question (at long last you say);

I'm not a gardner but I have used that black cloth covering stuff
to block out weeds around my boarders and that seems to work well.
My plan for the lawn is to dig it up (again) and lay some of the
black covering cloth down. Then I plan to put the turf right on
top. The idea being while the weeds can't get up the grass roots
should be able to dig down. I'm sure I'm have to water it very well
for a while.

Will it work ?

Can anyone help ?

I hate to be boring, but your logic is not new and I've seen the
results of similar logic actually put to the test the results of which
have been a yellow lawn the following season, followed by a brown lawn
then no lawn at all.

Its just not going to work in the long term, true the blackout will
kill any weeds underneath, and a good quality turf will probably be
grown on a good quality loam which may sustain the lawn for a couple
of seasons, but what about weed seeds that settle on top of your new
lawn?

Not all weeds are of a tap rooting nature and if tap rooting weeds set
in your new lawn they will still survive and grow (they maybe easier
to pull out of course, if you notice them).

Its a misnomer that weed suppressing material (blackout) stops weeds
growing. What it does is stop weeds establishing long enough for you
to notice them and pull them out (which is easy because they can't
root themselves, hence the name "weed suppressing".

Weeds still grow in one of my boarders which is covered with blackout
which is topped with bark chipping's, but at least they don't
establish and are flicked out easily.

I realise that your problem is not being able to mow the lawn
regularly which, as far as I know is the only effective way of keeping
a weed free lawn.

I do sincerely wish I could give you a more positive answer, but in
all honesty I can't.



Regards Jeff.

www.astrecks.co.uk

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On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 22:56:20 +0000, Janet Baraclough wrote:
The message . com
from "boing" contains these words:


Will it work ?

Not a hope. Weeds will grow, and self seed, in the depth of turf
that's above the membrane.

Janet

Now why couldn't I just say that?, simple and concise :-)

Jeff C

"why use one word when two hundred will do?"

In article . com, boing
writes

Can anyone help ?

As others have said, the quality of your lawn depends upon the attention
you give to it. The idea of a 100 percent fine grass lawn is an illusion
put about mostly by vendors of lawn care products, and is seldom
achieved even by professional gardeners. If you keep the grass to a
regular height, you will finish up with mostly grass plus a sprinkling
of lawn tolerant wild flowers. Twice weekly mowing is only necessary in
the peak growing times of spring and autumn, at other times once a week
or less is enough. Our lawn contains some daisies, buttercups, clover,
moss, self-heal and dead nettle, but not enough to prevent its use for
family recreation and leisure.
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

"boing" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hello,

Looking for some advice, for a few years now I have been trying to lay
a decent lawn with little success. The area has been for a very long
time home to all sorts of angry looking weeds and although I have
cleared them and used all sorts of toxic stuff, they still come back. I
don't need advice on how to get rid of them I've had all sorts from
experts up and down the country in 3 years. Now I am just fedup and
want to try something I've invented myself so here's the question (at
long last you say);

I'm not a gardner but I have used that black cloth covering stuff to
block out weeds around my boarders and that seems to work well. My plan
for the lawn is to dig it up (again) and lay some of the black covering
cloth down. Then I plan to put the turf right on top. The idea being
while the weeds can't get up the grass roots should be able to dig
down. I'm sure I'm have to water it very well for a while.

Will it work ?

Can anyone help ?

=================
Since you clearly haven't got the time to maintain a conventional lawn you
might consider 'astro turf' instead of a real grass lawn. It's not ideal but
it could provide a solution to your problem. It seems to work well provided
that its limitations are understood.

Cic.

"Cicero" wrote in message
. uk...

"boing" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hello,

Looking for some advice, for a few years now I have been trying to lay
a decent lawn with little success. The area has been for a very long
time home to all sorts of angry looking weeds and although I have
cleared them and used all sorts of toxic stuff, they still come back. I
don't need advice on how to get rid of them I've had all sorts from
experts up and down the country in 3 years. Now I am just fedup and
want to try something I've invented myself so here's the question (at
long last you say);

I'm not a gardner but I have used that black cloth covering stuff to
block out weeds around my boarders and that seems to work well. My plan
for the lawn is to dig it up (again) and lay some of the black covering
cloth down. Then I plan to put the turf right on top. The idea being
while the weeds can't get up the grass roots should be able to dig
down. I'm sure I'm have to water it very well for a while.

Will it work ?

Can anyone help ?

in a word no it wont you need at least a 4 inch root zone to allow the grass
roots to survive not sure what experts you asked but a twice yearly
application of a selective weedkiller followed by a spring weed and feed
will get rid of 95% of weed.

I don't know why so many people think I'm looking for a 100% perfect
lawn and perhaps I've got those other 5% weeds that just don't give up.

I have ivy, nettles and a thick something or other that spreads along
the ground covering everything it comes accross. I'll tell you how bad
this is, I've dug the area up twice and used the strongest weed killer
I could get my hands on, with proper application. I had to leave the
area 6 months the box said. After two applications within a month the
weeds where back up. Personally I think they are really growing this
Australia and I just keep killing off the end of the roots this end.
It's not so much the grass but the other plants that these effect. Once
they get in the boarders it takes hours to pull them out because the
get in everything.

I've taken on the commenta and thanks ofr taking the time but I've
really not heard anything to put me off trying this. No one has said
they have seen it fail and I don't mind normal everyday weeds in the
lawn.

boing wrote:
I don't know why so many people think I'm looking for a 100%
perfect
lawn and perhaps I've got those other 5% weeds that just don't give
up.

I have ivy, nettles and a thick something or other that spreads
along
the ground covering everything it comes accross. [
....]

I've taken on the commenta and thanks ofr taking the time but I've
really not heard anything to put me off trying this. No one has
said
they have seen it fail and I don't mind normal everyday weeds in
the
lawn.

OK, so you haven't got time for the upkeep of a lawn: no problem. You
don't want to pay somebody else to come in and cut once or twice a
week: fair enough. Believe me (and others have said the same
already), this means that, whatever you do to start a new lawn, it
will rapidly end up looking exactly the same as the one you've got.
You've _got_ to cut it regularly, or it _will_ go wild.

(Weedkillers kill weeds; they don't kill weed seeds.)

So are you positive that you actually _need_ a lawn? How big an area
are we considering? You can have a lovely paved area with a pond in
it, and assorted shrubs flowering all through the year, a few
containers nicely placed. You can have Japanese stone garden. You
could have a miniature woodland to stroll through in your rare
moments of leisure. You could have an orchard. There are plenty of
things you can do instead of a lawn, and they can all be much more
attractive than the best boring lawn in the kingdom -- which you
won't get anyhow.

Why not say roughly where you are? One of us might be able to come
and have a look at the problem if we're passing. I'm in Cheltenham.
(Hint.)

Mike.

In article .com,
boing writes
I don't know why so many people think I'm looking for a 100% perfect
lawn and perhaps I've got those other 5% weeds that just don't give up.

I have ivy, nettles and a thick something or other that spreads along
the ground covering everything it comes accross. I'll tell you how bad
this is, I've dug the area up twice and used the strongest weed killer
I could get my hands on, with proper application. I had to leave the
area 6 months the box said. After two applications within a month the
weeds where back up. Personally I think they are really growing this
Australia and I just keep killing off the end of the roots this end.
It's not so much the grass but the other plants that these effect. Once
they get in the boarders it takes hours to pull them out because the
get in everything.

I've taken on the commenta and thanks ofr taking the time but I've
really not heard anything to put me off trying this. No one has said
they have seen it fail and I don't mind normal everyday weeds in the
lawn.

Neither ivy nor stinging nettles will survive regular mowing, any more
than two or three cuts in one season will see them off. Weed-killers
will kill off most weed tops, but they leave all but the smaller weed
root systems alive to re-grow. If you are prepared to accept a small
amount of non-grass plants in you lawn, that can be achieved by a mostly
weekly mowing with a little extra at peak growing times. Keep your lawn
to a consistent height and it will do the rest of the work for you.
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.