Very odd this one!!

I have horses, but don't own the land we keep them on. I need some form =
of "hard" standing for them as the area they stand on now is too muddy.

So, (here's where hopefully someone can give me some ideas here, and =
you'll hopefully see the reference to this NG) I thought about using =
something like wood chippings, not shavings, but the thicker bits, like =
the bark you mulch with.

Does anyone have any ideas of a material, or a construciton method, that =
has to be :-

1) eco friendly (basically, it must either rot down over time, or be =
easily removed)

2) not require any form of planning permission - our landlady is =
somewhat elderly, and is unwilling to aid us in any way useful, however, =
in return, we only pay a pittance for what we rent, so its all swings =
and roundabouts

3) not be too expensive - this is really the killer for the outright =
packed down woodchip/woodfibre idea - =A325.00 per cubic metre, and i =
need 30 odd cubic metres at least.


Any "helpful" thoughts/ideas?

Si

I have horses, too, so understand your problem. Our gateways are a quagmire
at the moment and we're on clay as well. I'm sure you can imagine!
Unfortunately, I don't think the chippings will be any good for anything
bigger than a small pony. The ground is so wet at the moment that it gets
poached very quickly and shod horses will do a better job than those who are
unshod. I can't think of anything that could help you - sorry. If you
owned the land, it would be a different story. The biggest problem, as I'm
sure you're well aware of and this may be your primary concern, is mud
fever. Keep the legs unclipped and, if the hair is very short, use a
barrier cream to repel the water. Is it possible to stable the horses for
some time during the day or night? I don't like continual stabling but it
would help if you stable them at night. It gives the legs and feet a chance
to dry out and helps to prevent the bacteria breeding that causes mud fever,
as well as giving the land less of a battering. A short period of stabling
during the day would help the legs, too, if the ground is seriously bad -
say an hour at lunch time. Of course, this means being around to bring them
in and turn them out again. You could also try some neoprene turnout boots
but you need to make sure that the skin (not just the hair) is absolutely
dry before you use them, otherwise you're just trapping moisture in. You
can check them out here
http://www.stabletalk.co.uk/focus/sp...noutadvert.php
I know this isn't the kind of help you're looking for but I hope it helps a
little.

Jaqy


Simon K wrote:
Very odd this one!!

I have horses, but don't own the land we keep them on. I need some
form of "hard" standing for them as the area they stand on now is too
muddy.

So, (here's where hopefully someone can give me some ideas here, and
you'll hopefully see the reference to this NG) I thought about using
something like wood chippings, not shavings, but the thicker bits,
like the bark you mulch with.

Does anyone have any ideas of a material, or a construciton method,
that has to be :-

1) eco friendly (basically, it must either rot down over time, or be
easily removed)

2) not require any form of planning permission - our landlady is
somewhat elderly, and is unwilling to aid us in any way useful,
however, in return, we only pay a pittance for what we rent, so its
all swings and roundabouts

3) not be too expensive - this is really the killer for the outright
packed down woodchip/woodfibre idea - £25.00 per cubic metre, and i
need 30 odd cubic metres at least.


Any "helpful" thoughts/ideas?

Si

"MC Emily" wrote in message =
...
I have horses, too, so understand your problem. Our gateways are a =
quagmire
at the moment and we're on clay as well. I'm sure you can imagine!
SNIP

Hi Jaqy

well, the chippings idea is well based, as the majority of schools are =
covered in this these days. The main thing as you know is to provide an =
enviroment where the mud is, if not eradicated, greatly reduced.

We dont have any stabling (what a landlady - she wont put the planning =
permission in as she is holding out to sell the land for housing in a =
few years, and doesnt want to "rock the boat") - dont get me wrong about =
her, we pay as much as the land is worth, which in present state isnt a =
lot, but we get 7 acres!!

The best idea so far is:

1) make a frame out of 6" joists
2) lay a tarpaulin straight over the mud, setting it in such a way that =
a natural drainage channel exists (ie one side higher)
3) fill the bottom 3" with wood chippings (like you use for rabbit =
bedding) and roll these to compact with a garden roller, or heavier
4) fill the remaining 3" with bark/wood fibre. again, this needs =
compressing, but gives a surface that will drain through, and will be ok =
for the horses feet.

Someone else suggested putting some hardcore down first - we cant do =
that as it would draw too much attention, likewise sand - not eco =
friendly and wont rot back to nothing given enough time.

regds

Si

Simon K wrote:

We dont have any stabling (what a landlady - she wont put the
planning permission in as she is holding out to sell the land for
housing in a few years, and doesnt want to "rock the boat")

Fair enough. Could you put up a field shelter? You don't need PP for these
and you could use it as a make-do stable for short periods of time.

- dont
get me wrong about her, we pay as much as the land is worth, which in
present state isnt a lot, but we get 7 acres!!

Ah well, it's worth it then!

The best idea so far is:

1) make a frame out of 6" joists
2) lay a tarpaulin straight over the mud, setting it in such a way
that a natural drainage channel exists (ie one side higher)
3) fill the bottom 3" with wood chippings (like you use for rabbit
bedding) and roll these to compact with a garden roller, or heavier
4) fill the remaining 3" with bark/wood fibre. again, this needs
compressing, but gives a surface that will drain through, and will be
ok for the horses feet.

I hadn't realised from your previous post that you were doing a 'proper'
job, as regards drainage, if you see what I mean (no disrespect meant here).
This does, however, seem like an awful lot of work and cost for something
that would be quite temporary. I think in a short space of time you would
end up with mushy chippings. Most arenas and schools are dug out far more
than 6" and have proper land drains installed. Also, with the weight of the
horses, the chippings will not stay in place. Arenas are regularly levelled
and your setup would need that also.

Someone else suggested putting some hardcore down first - we cant do
that as it would draw too much attention, likewise sand - not eco
friendly and wont rot back to nothing given enough time.

Sure. How many horses/ponies do you have? Could you divide the field with
electric fencing and strip graze, giving alternate areas a rest? I'm
racking my brains for you here, honest!!

Jaqy

"Simon wrote in message
what a landlady - she wont put the planning permission in

You don't have to own the land to put in for Planning Permission. So you
could do it yourself.
Your Landlady will get a lot more for the land with Planning Permission
anyway, and you often have to start low (a stables) and build up (to
Industrial and/or houses).
--
Bob

www.pooleygreengrowers.org.uk/ about an Allotment site in
Runnymede fighting for it's existence.

Hiya,

Fair enough. Could you put up a field shelter? You don't need PP for =
these
and you could use it as a make-do stable for short periods of time.

We have had one up, but when one of our mares foaled last april, the =
local inteligentsia decided it would be far better to have a bonfire =
with it - you can appreciate my retiscence for doing anything more than =
improving the natural shelter.

Ah well, it's worth it then!

for =A380 a month, its bloody brilliant!

=20
I hadn't realised from your previous post that you were doing a =
'proper'
job, as regards drainage, if you see what I mean (no disrespect meant =
here).
This does, however, seem like an awful lot of work and cost for =
something
that would be quite temporary. I think in a short space of time you =
would
end up with mushy chippings. Most arenas and schools are dug out far =
more
than 6" and have proper land drains installed. Also, with the weight =
of the
horses, the chippings will not stay in place. Arenas are regularly =
levelled
and your setup would need that also.

Its a real toughie - need to do something, even if its high maintenance =
- we feed twice a day so plenty of opportunities to sort out the =
surface, but cant do what is really needed (6" concrete base and =
stables!) because a) landlady won't help out b) parish council are =
opposed to anything building like in the area

We've got 5 pones in total, and they respect electric fencing as much as =
a bluetit respects a milk bottle top - "why am I not being allowed to go =
into that bit? hmm, better investigate"=20

I know the feeling about racking brains - thats why I've opened up the =
forum here ;-)

Road shavings would be ideal (used them before) but again, Planning =
Permission required, and even if we tried to sneak them in, one of the =
ladies that walks past our gate each day is chairman of the Parish =
Council - hence we are pretty clued up as to what we can get away with.

Si

"Sue & Bob Hobden" wrote in message =
...
=20
"Simon wrote in message
what a landlady - she wont put the planning permission in
=20
You don't have to own the land to put in for Planning Permission. So =
you
could do it yourself.
Your Landlady will get a lot more for the land with Planning =
Permission
anyway, and you often have to start low (a stables) and build up (to
Industrial and/or houses).

we might not need to own it, but we do need the landlady's permission at =
least - and her stance is such that she won't let anything happen! =20

Also, right next to us is going to public enquiry over PP, and as its a =
development we are against (a builder wants to knock down a bungalow, =
and build 5 dwellings in its place) for us to get PP would be a shot in =
the foot as the precedent would be set for the area, catch 22 or what??

Si

Simon K wrote:

We have had one up, but when one of our mares foaled last april, the
local inteligentsia decided it would be far better to have a bonfire
with it - you can appreciate my retiscence for doing anything more
than improving the natural shelter.

Oh, nice people then? No wonder you don't want to go down that line!

for £80 a month, its bloody brilliant!

Absolutely!

Its a real toughie - need to do something, even if its high
maintenance - we feed twice a day so plenty of opportunities to sort
out the surface, but cant do what is really needed (6" concrete base
and stables!) because a) landlady won't help out b) parish council
are opposed to anything building like in the area

Ah, parish councils, the love of my life NOT!!

We've got 5 pones in total, and they respect electric fencing as much
as a bluetit respects a milk bottle top - "why am I not being allowed
to go into that bit? hmm, better investigate"

LOL!! Typical ponies. A bigger energiser should do the trick. Once
they've had a decent 'kick' they rarely go back for more!

I know the feeling about racking brains - thats why I've opened up
the forum here ;-)

Yeah, it's a good one, this. Just the sort of thing to clear a Christmassy
head!!

Road shavings would be ideal (used them before) but again, Planning
Permission required, and even if we tried to sneak them in, one of
the ladies that walks past our gate each day is chairman of the
Parish Council - hence we are pretty clued up as to what we can get
away with.

Damn those PC's!! Could you apply for temporary PP, say for 12 months,
renewable on a yearly basis? That way, it's not setting a precendence for
permanent buildings and, if you explain your dilemma to the good old PC,
they might even feel sorry for you and go along with it. It might just get
you out of the stale mate your in. Also, what hope of PP does the owner
have if the other people are having trouble? You might be able to persuade
her that temporary PP would get her 'foot in the door', so to speak.

Jaqy

Simon K wrote:

Read my other reply and you'll see why the whole PP thing is a catch
22 - we need it, and we don't want it ;-)

I understand your position but why would temporary PP cause you problems?

Jaqy

Xref: 127.0.0.1 uk.rec.gardening:163852

Damn those PC's!! Could you apply for temporary PP, say for 12 =
months,
renewable on a yearly basis? That way, it's not setting a precendence =
for
permanent buildings and, if you explain your dilemma to the good old =
PC,
they might even feel sorry for you and go along with it. It might =
just get
you out of the stale mate your in. Also, what hope of PP does the =
owner
have if the other people are having trouble? You might be able to =
persuade
her that temporary PP would get her 'foot in the door', so to speak.
=20
Jaqy

Read my other reply and you'll see why the whole PP thing is a catch 22 =
- we need it, and we don't want it ;-)

Si