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Old 24-03-2005, 09:45 PM
Pam Moore
 
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Default Feeding ericaceous plants

I have some camellias in pots, and a blueberry, also potted, plus a
few other things which are in ericaceous compost.
They don't get fed much because the only ericaceous feed I have, which
is Miracid (now renamed "Miracle Gro ericaceous plant food" for some
reason) is very high in nitrogen;30-4.4-8.3. Camellias and
blueberries surely don't want high nitrogen, when I want them to
flower or fruit.
Is there any other ericaceous feed more suitable for such plants?
My camellias are flowering well and I the blueberry is budding up
nicely, but I feel they need a reat! All they get is an occasional
dose of tea!
I remember Arthur Billett saying on TV once that he gave Camelllias a
dose of sulphate of potash after flowering. This I have tried but it
surely goes the other way!
Any suggestions please?

Pam in Bristol

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Old 24-03-2005, 11:28 PM
Paul Giverin
 
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In message , Pam Moore
writes
I have some camellias in pots, and a blueberry, also potted, plus a
few other things which are in ericaceous compost.
They don't get fed much because the only ericaceous feed I have, which
is Miracid (now renamed "Miracle Gro ericaceous plant food" for some
reason) is very high in nitrogen;30-4.4-8.3. Camellias and
blueberries surely don't want high nitrogen, when I want them to
flower or fruit.
Is there any other ericaceous feed more suitable for such plants?
My camellias are flowering well and I the blueberry is budding up
nicely, but I feel they need a reat! All they get is an occasional
dose of tea!
I remember Arthur Billett saying on TV once that he gave Camelllias a
dose of sulphate of potash after flowering. This I have tried but it
surely goes the other way!
Any suggestions please?

Pam in Bristol


Not exactly feeding but I use pine needles from the coniferous trees in
the forest near me. I sprinkle them on the top of the soil and I'm led
to believe that as the needles are acidic, this will leech into the
soil. I even used my Xmas tree for this purpose this year.

--
Paul Giverin

British Jet Engine Website http://www.britjet.co.uk
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Old 25-03-2005, 09:51 AM
Kay
 
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In message , Pam Moore
writes
I have some camellias in pots, and a blueberry, also potted, plus a
few other things which are in ericaceous compost.
They don't get fed much because the only ericaceous feed I have, which
is Miracid (now renamed "Miracle Gro ericaceous plant food" for some
reason) is very high in nitrogen;30-4.4-8.3. Camellias and
blueberries surely don't want high nitrogen, when I want them to
flower or fruit.
Is there any other ericaceous feed more suitable for such plants?
My camellias are flowering well and I the blueberry is budding up
nicely, but I feel they need a reat! All they get is an occasional
dose of tea!


Would a high potash fertiliser and a separate application of chelated
iron work?
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

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Old 25-03-2005, 09:55 PM
Chris Hogg
 
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On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:45:12 GMT, Pam Moore
wrote:

I have some camellias in pots, and a blueberry, also potted, plus a
few other things which are in ericaceous compost.
They don't get fed much because the only ericaceous feed I have, which
is Miracid (now renamed "Miracle Gro ericaceous plant food" for some
reason) is very high in nitrogen;30-4.4-8.3. Camellias and
blueberries surely don't want high nitrogen, when I want them to
flower or fruit.
Is there any other ericaceous feed more suitable for such plants?
My camellias are flowering well and I the blueberry is budding up
nicely, but I feel they need a reat! All they get is an occasional
dose of tea!
I remember Arthur Billett saying on TV once that he gave Camelllias a
dose of sulphate of potash after flowering. This I have tried but it
surely goes the other way!
Any suggestions please?

Pam in Bristol


Pam,

See my reply to an earlier question on feeding rhododendrons. Camellia
feeding is pretty much the same. In brief, feed nitrogen at monthly
intervals after flowering up to the end of June, then a potash feed in
July to encourage flower bud formation in late summer for flowering
the following year. My camellias revel in a heavy mulch of raw seaweed
in late spring. If you can't get raw seaweed, perhaps a liquid seaweed
fertiliser might go some way, but it would be second best as it would
contribute virtually nothing to the soil structure.

Not sure about the blueberries, although I would guess a similar
feeding regime, the difference being that they flower and fruit in the
same year as they set the flower buds, so perhaps the potash feed
needs to be earlier.

IIRC Miracid claimed it made alkaline soil acid, which of course it
didn't. But it did contain chelated iron and manganese compounds which
allowed ericaceous plants to grow on alkaline soils without becoming
chlorotic, and presumably it still does. I imagine someone pointed out
to them the error of their claims for Miracid, and they had to change
the name. It's not necessary for ericaceous plants already growing in
an acid compost, but will do no harm.


--
Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net
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Old 26-03-2005, 12:14 AM
Pam Moore
 
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On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 20:55:18 +0000, Chris Hogg wrote:

IIRC Miracid claimed it made alkaline soil acid, which of course it
didn't. But it did contain chelated iron and manganese compounds which
allowed ericaceous plants to grow on alkaline soils without becoming
chlorotic, and presumably it still does. I imagine someone pointed out
to them the error of their claims for Miracid, and they had to change
the name. It's not necessary for ericaceous plants already growing in
an acid compost, but will do no harm.


Thanks Chris, Paul and Kay for advice.
Chris, that thinking sounds logical!
I cannot get fresh seaweed or pine needles so I bought some seaweed
liquid with sequestered iron today and will use that and the Miracid I
already have. Strangely, there was no Miracid under any name on the
shelf at Wyevale, only a liquid with one name or the other. (forget
which).
Thanks again

Pam in Bristol


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Old 26-03-2005, 04:20 PM
Tim Tyler
 
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Pam Moore wrote or quoted:

I have some camellias in pots, and a blueberry, also potted, plus a
few other things which are in ericaceous compost. [...]


Is there any other ericaceous feed more suitable for such plants?
My camellias are flowering well and I the blueberry is budding up
nicely, but I feel they need a reat! All they get is an occasional
dose of tea!


I was suprised to learn that the tea plant and the blueberry plant
were rather close relatives.

If my grandmother's theory about eating what you are made of has
anything to it, tea might not be at all bad ;-)

IIRC, the relationship is close enough to make me interested in
investigating chewing on blueberry leaves. Alas, my research in the area
so far has not come up with much - I may have to adopt a "suck it and see"
strategy.
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ Remove lock to reply.
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Old 26-03-2005, 06:51 PM
Kay
 
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In article , Tim Tyler writes
Pam Moore wrote or quoted:

I have some camellias in pots, and a blueberry, also potted, plus a
few other things which are in ericaceous compost. [...]


Is there any other ericaceous feed more suitable for such plants?
My camellias are flowering well and I the blueberry is budding up
nicely, but I feel they need a reat! All they get is an occasional
dose of tea!


I was suprised to learn that the tea plant and the blueberry plant
were rather close relatives.


Are you sure about that? As far as I am aware, tea is Camellia in the
family Theaceae, whereas Vaccinium (which includes blueberry) is
Ericaceae. Different families is rather a long way away to be described
as 'close'.

Googling shows them to be in different orders, and to come together only
at the superorder level. That's the same degree of relationship as
strawberry and poinsettia, so I don't think I'd hypothesise and degree
of edibility from that!

Looking in Usher 'Plants used by Man' there's no evidence of anyone
using tye leaves of any of the Vacciiums for anything. Otoh, the seeds
of the tea plant are used to make soap, and seeds of a near relative
(Camellia kissi) are used to stun fish.


--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

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Old 27-03-2005, 01:12 PM
Tim Tyler
 
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Kay wrote or quoted:
In article , Tim Tyler writes
Pam Moore wrote or quoted:


I have some camellias in pots, and a blueberry, also potted, plus a
few other things which are in ericaceous compost. [...]


Is there any other ericaceous feed more suitable for such plants?
My camellias are flowering well and I the blueberry is budding up
nicely, but I feel they need a reat! All they get is an occasional
dose of tea!


I was suprised to learn that the tea plant and the blueberry plant
were rather close relatives.


Are you sure about that? As far as I am aware, tea is Camellia in the
family Theaceae, whereas Vaccinium (which includes blueberry) is
Ericaceae. Different families is rather a long way away to be described
as 'close'.


The taxonomy browser gives:

Tea:
Eukaryota; Viridiplantae; Streptophyta; Streptophytina;
Embryophyta; Tracheophyta; Euphyllophyta; Spermatophyta;
Magnoliophyta; eudicotyledons; core eudicots; asterids;
Ericales; Theaceae; Camellia

Blueberry:
Eukaryota; Viridiplantae; Streptophyta; Streptophytina;
Embryophyta; Tracheophyta; Euphyllophyta; Spermatophyta;
Magnoliophyta; eudicotyledons; core eudicots; asterids;
Ericales; Ericaceae; Vaccinioideae; Vaccinieae

....so yes, cousins might well be stretching it a bit.
--
__________
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Old 27-03-2005, 02:04 PM
Kay
 
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In article , Tim Tyler writes

The taxonomy browser gives:

Tea:
Eukaryota; Viridiplantae; Streptophyta; Streptophytina;
Embryophyta; Tracheophyta; Euphyllophyta; Spermatophyta;
Magnoliophyta; eudicotyledons; core eudicots; asterids;
Ericales; Theaceae; Camellia

Blueberry:
Eukaryota; Viridiplantae; Streptophyta; Streptophytina;
Embryophyta; Tracheophyta; Euphyllophyta; Spermatophyta;
Magnoliophyta; eudicotyledons; core eudicots; asterids;
Ericales; Ericaceae; Vaccinioideae; Vaccinieae

...so yes, cousins might well be stretching it a bit.


Aha! Things have moved on a bit. My reference (Flowering plants of the
World, ed Heywood, 1993) has Theaceae in a separate order Theales - it's
clearly been moved to Ericales

What is 'the taxonomy browser'? Who produces it?
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

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Old 27-03-2005, 02:22 PM
Tim Tyler
 
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Kay wrote or quoted:
In article , Tim Tyler writes


The taxonomy browser gives:

Tea:
Eukaryota; Viridiplantae; Streptophyta; Streptophytina;
Embryophyta; Tracheophyta; Euphyllophyta; Spermatophyta;
Magnoliophyta; eudicotyledons; core eudicots; asterids;
Ericales; Theaceae; Camellia

Blueberry:
Eukaryota; Viridiplantae; Streptophyta; Streptophytina;
Embryophyta; Tracheophyta; Euphyllophyta; Spermatophyta;
Magnoliophyta; eudicotyledons; core eudicots; asterids;
Ericales; Ericaceae; Vaccinioideae; Vaccinieae

...so yes, cousins might well be stretching it a bit.


Aha! Things have moved on a bit. My reference (Flowering plants of the
World, ed Heywood, 1993) has Theaceae in a separate order Theales - it's
clearly been moved to Ericales

What is 'the taxonomy browser'? Who produces it?


It's the biggest dictionary of species I know of - see:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Taxonomy/Browser/wwwtax.cgi
--
__________
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Old 27-03-2005, 03:14 PM
Nick Maclaren
 
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In article , Tim Tyler wrote:
Kay wrote or quoted:

Aha! Things have moved on a bit. My reference (Flowering plants of the
World, ed Heywood, 1993) has Theaceae in a separate order Theales - it's
clearly been moved to Ericales

What is 'the taxonomy browser'? Who produces it?


It's the biggest dictionary of species I know of - see:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Taxonomy/Browser/wwwtax.cgi


You should regard all of that stuff as dubious. There is some good
work being done, but the area is heavily polluted by dogmatists,
and most of the software used to produce the classifications is
crap. It is common for two classifications by 'respectable' people
to be wildly different and both "well supported".

As a statistician, that makes me certain that there is a methodological
failure in one or the other analysis - or, in this case, probably both.

This can be confirmed by the rarity of papers specifying precisely
the analyses their results are based on - in extreme cases, I have
contacted the authors of the programs used, who were themselves unaware
of what their own programs were doing! And those were the then leading
programs, trusted as wholly reliable by the field.



Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


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