Hi there,

I am new to the pond world (complete beginner so please excuse my ignorance)
as I recently moved and inherited a 11ft * 11ft * 2ft pond full with about a
dozen or so Koi carp, largest fish about 16 inches in length. The pump has
given up and the filter seemed permanently clogged up, even after cleaning
the internal (pads) every week. I have also noticed that the pond has a lot
of "silt" in it even though the water is clean, it currently has a UV box
which now doesn't work as the pump is not working.

I would like to change the setup but don't have a huge amount of money to do
this, so I'd really appreciate some advice...So my questions are as follows
(apologies I have a number of queries!)

1. From what I have read the pond is too shallow (is it?) and needs to be at
least 4 ft in depth for Koi? If this is the case then I presumably would
have to remove the fish to a temporary setup (holding tank? any ideas on how
this is done?) dig the pond out deeper and replace with a new liner? Could I
use my existing pond for this season as is and make the changes regarding
pond depth when finances allow?

2. Should I get the pond cleared of the silt? How would I do this - using a
pond vac? Can you hire a pond vac?

3. What would be a good/inexpensive pump & filter combination? I have looked
on the web and it's a bit of a minefield of information, some people seem to
advise on a using a Vortex chamber setup or is this only for professionals?
What filter/pump would work with my existing setup as well as allowing for
the increase in pond depth at a later date?

4. I found a setup that looked interesting after doing some calcs on my pond
size, this was using the Hozelock Ecoclear 18000 with a Titan 12000 pump -
is this a good setup? This also looks good as I don't need a gravity feed
filter so can site this setup away from the pond, but the filters (2 of
them) do look a little small compared to my existing big filter box?

5. Could I also use my existing filter box (3 stage) with the new Hozelock
Ecoclear 18000 with a Titan 12000 pump system in line for extra filtering?

6. Any recommendations on suppliers? I found Grovelands Online
(www.grovelands.com) and their prices look great. I am based in
Hampshire.......

Any help would be very much appreciated as I am very keen to ensure my pond
setup is correct and enjoy the new experience of being a pond owner.

kind regard,
Richard

"Richard Kerry" wrote

I am new to the pond world (complete beginner so please excuse my
ignorance)
as I recently moved and inherited a 11ft * 11ft * 2ft pond full with about
a
dozen or so Koi carp, largest fish about 16 inches in length. The pump has
given up and the filter seemed permanently clogged up, even after cleaning
the internal (pads) every week. I have also noticed that the pond has a
lot
of "silt" in it even though the water is clean, it currently has a UV box
which now doesn't work as the pump is not working.

Firstly never say Koi carp, it marks you out as someone who isn't a Koi
keeper. It's short for Nishikigoi, which means Japanese Imperial Carp, you
are therefor simply saying carp carp, there are no koi that arn't carp. Your
pond is also full so don't be tempted to increase your stock. We have only 9
fish in 3,000 gals, they get big especially is given the space.

I would like to change the setup but don't have a huge amount of money to
do
this, so I'd really appreciate some advice...So my questions are as
follows
(apologies I have a number of queries!)

1. From what I have read the pond is too shallow (is it?) and needs to be
at
least 4 ft in depth for Koi? If this is the case then I presumably would
have to remove the fish to a temporary setup (holding tank? any ideas on
how
this is done?) dig the pond out deeper and replace with a new liner? Could
I
use my existing pond for this season as is and make the changes regarding
pond depth when finances allow?

It is too shallow but I have kept Koi for over 20 years in a pond only 1
meter deep so it will depend on where you are. The colder the area the
deeper it needs to be, a deep pond also exercises the fish more, 5ft is
good.
I've seen 9ft deep Koi ponds but then they were well over 10,000 gals with
filters to match.
They should be OK for this season, they have been OK in there until now
anyway.
You would need a large net and a proper holding pond which I have seen
available (don't use an above ground swimming pool as the liner is
chemically treated). You will get very wet catching them, and they are very
strong animals. Best to cover the holding pond with a close fitting net as
they can jump out.


2. Should I get the pond cleared of the silt? How would I do this - using
a
pond vac? Can you hire a pond vac?

I use an old swimming pool pump and "hoover" but the small strainer basket
does clog up often if the pond is dirty. Never as dirty as your's by the
sound of it. :-)


3. What would be a good/inexpensive pump & filter combination? I have
looked
on the web and it's a bit of a minefield of information, some people seem
to
advise on a using a Vortex chamber setup or is this only for
professionals?
What filter/pump would work with my existing setup as well as allowing for
the increase in pond depth at a later date?

I originally made my own filters out of water tanks but then these big
filters weren't available commercially then. A vortex chamber is good as it
removes the larger solids which can then be drained off to waste easily.
With a hoover, your pond won't be too dirty if you clean it a few times ever
year so I'm not convinced a vortex chamber is strictly necessary.
These filters work by allowing aerobic bacteria to colonise the filter
medium and it's these bacteria that break down the fish waste into less
harmfull chemicals. Clear water is not necessarily clean water. For this
reason, once started they shouldn't be turned off or the bacteria will die
causing more problems when eventually restarted.
I use, as do a lot of koi keepers, a central heating pump but these have to
be kept dry and below water level (outside the pond in a seperate rain-proof
chamber) as they won't suck water up but will push it up as high as you
like. They are cheap comparitively, much cheaper to run, very very reliable
and there is no electricity in the pond.
Take a look at this site, it has lots of usefull information, although
remember they are retaillers so they don't mention the cheaper CH pump
alternative I mention above. Always get a bigger filter than is strictly
necessary, koi are the pigs of the fish world and produce a lot of muck.

http://www.worldofwater.com/main.htm


4. I found a setup that looked interesting after doing some calcs on my
pond
size, this was using the Hozelock Ecoclear 18000 with a Titan 12000 pump -
is this a good setup? This also looks good as I don't need a gravity feed
filter so can site this setup away from the pond, but the filters (2 of
them) do look a little small compared to my existing big filter box?

Hozelock haven't got a name for pumps so they are probably someone elses
renamed. Oase are makers of fine in-pond pumps and filters etc.

5. Could I also use my existing filter box (3 stage) with the new Hozelock
Ecoclear 18000 with a Titan 12000 pump system in line for extra filtering?

Yes, excellent idea, I have 4 tanks in line starting with brushes then three
with foam. Horrid to clean out each spring though, full of filthy black
sludge which is very strong, fertilizer wise.


6. Any recommendations on suppliers? I found Grovelands Online
(www.grovelands.com) and their prices look great. I am based in
Hampshire.......

Good grief! Just looked at the price of your pump. That's the price of about
3 x Grundfoss 3 speed CH pumps !!!! So according to my experience about 30+
years of pumps working 24/7.
If you can't design in a CH pump do take a look at Oase pumps.

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

"Richard Kerry" wrote in message
...
Hi there,

I am new to the pond world (complete beginner so please excuse my
ignorance)
as I recently moved and inherited a 11ft * 11ft * 2ft pond full with
about a
dozen or so Koi carp, largest fish about 16 inches in length. The
pump has
given up and the filter seemed permanently clogged up, even after
cleaning
the internal (pads) every week. I have also noticed that the pond
has a lot
of "silt" in it even though the water is clean, it currently has a
UV box
which now doesn't work as the pump is not working.

I'm not a Koi boy, so will leave these aspects to experts.
Re your 'given up' pump, if the filter pads were well and truly
clogged, I'd be inclined to try a bit of pump maintenance. I have a
submerged Cyprio pump, must be over 15 years old, and it slows down
every so often, maybe twice a year. All I do with that is to switch
the power off (!!!), haul it out and separate the two sections (a
quarter turn action). One section has a sealed plain disc which clogs
up with dirty brown slimy gunge. Scrub that off with a stiff brush
(not a wire brush), make sure all the moving parts move freely (it's
amazing how much pond weed can wind itself around the impellor),
replace all parts (including the rubber ring washer - how many times
have I lost that). Resubmerge. Switch back on. Allow the header tank
to refill - and away she goes, .... hopefully.
And re sludge removal, don't be too fastidious. A bit o' sludge never
harmed anything. It will contain lots of natural pond life that will
help to keep the pond clean and fresh! A natural balance is what you
are after, not a biological desert.
'Best of luck.

--
ned

http://www.bugsandweeds.co.uk
last update 30.03.2005

Hi Bob,

Many thanks for all the useful advice, now I have even more questions I'm
afraid! The pond we inherited is about 7 years old so the "Koi" seem to have
been ok in their existing environment, longer term (end of 05) I'd like to
dig the pond out so the advice I need is to get the appropriate pump and
filters that will work today and also in the future.

Where do I get a CH pump from? Do I need a CH pump for heating and an
ordinary pump for the filters? Is a CH pump energy effecient as I've seen
some inexpensive (aka cheap) pumps running crazy currents so NOT a good idea
24/7.

Also, if I got for the system I indicated on my orgininal post I wonder
whether using an standard box filter with the EcoClear 18000 would work as
the EcoClear is a pressurised system or would that make no difference?

Can I also get new materials for my existing filter should I wish to
continue using it?

kind regards,
Richard

"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...

"Richard Kerry" wrote

I am new to the pond world (complete beginner so please excuse my
ignorance)
as I recently moved and inherited a 11ft * 11ft * 2ft pond full with
about a
dozen or so Koi carp, largest fish about 16 inches in length. The pump
has
given up and the filter seemed permanently clogged up, even after
cleaning
the internal (pads) every week. I have also noticed that the pond has a
lot
of "silt" in it even though the water is clean, it currently has a UV box
which now doesn't work as the pump is not working.

Firstly never say Koi carp, it marks you out as someone who isn't a Koi
keeper. It's short for Nishikigoi, which means Japanese Imperial Carp, you
are therefor simply saying carp carp, there are no koi that arn't carp.
Your pond is also full so don't be tempted to increase your stock. We have
only 9 fish in 3,000 gals, they get big especially is given the space.

I would like to change the setup but don't have a huge amount of money to
do
this, so I'd really appreciate some advice...So my questions are as
follows
(apologies I have a number of queries!)

1. From what I have read the pond is too shallow (is it?) and needs to be
at
least 4 ft in depth for Koi? If this is the case then I presumably would
have to remove the fish to a temporary setup (holding tank? any ideas on
how
this is done?) dig the pond out deeper and replace with a new liner?
Could I
use my existing pond for this season as is and make the changes regarding
pond depth when finances allow?

It is too shallow but I have kept Koi for over 20 years in a pond only 1
meter deep so it will depend on where you are. The colder the area the
deeper it needs to be, a deep pond also exercises the fish more, 5ft is
good.
I've seen 9ft deep Koi ponds but then they were well over 10,000 gals with
filters to match.
They should be OK for this season, they have been OK in there until now
anyway.
You would need a large net and a proper holding pond which I have seen
available (don't use an above ground swimming pool as the liner is
chemically treated). You will get very wet catching them, and they are
very strong animals. Best to cover the holding pond with a close fitting
net as they can jump out.


2. Should I get the pond cleared of the silt? How would I do this - using
a
pond vac? Can you hire a pond vac?

I use an old swimming pool pump and "hoover" but the small strainer basket
does clog up often if the pond is dirty. Never as dirty as your's by the
sound of it. :-)


3. What would be a good/inexpensive pump & filter combination? I have
looked
on the web and it's a bit of a minefield of information, some people seem
to
advise on a using a Vortex chamber setup or is this only for
professionals?
What filter/pump would work with my existing setup as well as allowing
for
the increase in pond depth at a later date?

I originally made my own filters out of water tanks but then these big
filters weren't available commercially then. A vortex chamber is good as
it removes the larger solids which can then be drained off to waste
easily.
With a hoover, your pond won't be too dirty if you clean it a few times
ever year so I'm not convinced a vortex chamber is strictly necessary.
These filters work by allowing aerobic bacteria to colonise the filter
medium and it's these bacteria that break down the fish waste into less
harmfull chemicals. Clear water is not necessarily clean water. For this
reason, once started they shouldn't be turned off or the bacteria will die
causing more problems when eventually restarted.
I use, as do a lot of koi keepers, a central heating pump but these have
to be kept dry and below water level (outside the pond in a seperate
rain-proof chamber) as they won't suck water up but will push it up as
high as you like. They are cheap comparitively, much cheaper to run, very
very reliable and there is no electricity in the pond.
Take a look at this site, it has lots of usefull information, although
remember they are retaillers so they don't mention the cheaper CH pump
alternative I mention above. Always get a bigger filter than is strictly
necessary, koi are the pigs of the fish world and produce a lot of muck.

http://www.worldofwater.com/main.htm


4. I found a setup that looked interesting after doing some calcs on my
pond
size, this was using the Hozelock Ecoclear 18000 with a Titan 12000
pump -
is this a good setup? This also looks good as I don't need a gravity feed
filter so can site this setup away from the pond, but the filters (2 of
them) do look a little small compared to my existing big filter box?

Hozelock haven't got a name for pumps so they are probably someone elses
renamed. Oase are makers of fine in-pond pumps and filters etc.

5. Could I also use my existing filter box (3 stage) with the new
Hozelock
Ecoclear 18000 with a Titan 12000 pump system in line for extra
filtering?

Yes, excellent idea, I have 4 tanks in line starting with brushes then
three with foam. Horrid to clean out each spring though, full of filthy
black sludge which is very strong, fertilizer wise.


6. Any recommendations on suppliers? I found Grovelands Online
(www.grovelands.com) and their prices look great. I am based in
Hampshire.......

Good grief! Just looked at the price of your pump. That's the price of
about 3 x Grundfoss 3 speed CH pumps !!!! So according to my experience
about 30+ years of pumps working 24/7.
If you can't design in a CH pump do take a look at Oase pumps.

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

Richard Kerry wrote:
:: Hi Bob,
::
:: Many thanks for all the useful advice, now I have even more
:: questions I'm afraid! The pond we inherited is about 7 years old
:: so the "Koi" seem to have been ok in their existing environment,
:: longer term (end of 05) I'd like to dig the pond out so the advice
:: I need is to get the appropriate pump and filters that will work
:: today and also in the future.
::
:: Where do I get a CH pump from? Do I need a CH pump for heating and
:: an ordinary pump for the filters? Is a CH pump energy effecient as
:: I've seen some inexpensive (aka cheap) pumps running crazy
:: currents so NOT a good idea 24/7.

Heating?
Koi don't need warm water, they live in cold water.

Richard Kerry muttered:

Oops - to finish my previous sentence:

"And checking the Grundfos web site won't this pump be affected by" the cold
e.g. the pump operating temperature is above zero as the mininum....

Richard

"Richard Kerry" wrote in message
...
Hi Bob,

Thanks again....so, how do I configure a workable filters, UV & Grundfos
pumps combination?

How do I know which pump would be suitable for a pond my size today and
tommorow? If I went down the Grundfos route how do I know if the pump is
suitable, what am I looking for when I speak with the plumbing chaps?

If I decided not to use the pressurised system, how would I configure a
filter (standard box type), UV & Grundfos pump setup? How many gph/lph for
the pump to process? What size UV, presumably installed in line??

You also mention that the pump needs to be below water level? Does this
mean below the water line or below the bottom of the pond? Either way it
would seem that I would have to dig a (waterproofed) hole for
installation? And what about connectors? And checking the Grundfos web
site won't this pump be affected by

Apologies for so many questions, yet again! The more I learn the more I
realise the more I need to learn...........

kind regards,
Richard


"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...

"Richard Kerry" wrote .
Many thanks for all the useful advice, now I have even more questions
I'm afraid! The pond we inherited is about 7 years old so the "Koi" seem
to have been ok in their existing environment, longer term (end of 05)
I'd like to dig the pond out so the advice I need is to get the
appropriate pump and filters that will work today and also in the
future.

Where do I get a CH pump from? Do I need a CH pump for heating and an
ordinary pump for the filters? Is a CH pump energy effecient as I've
seen some inexpensive (aka cheap) pumps running crazy currents so NOT a
good idea 24/7.

You get a Central Heating (Grundfos) pump from any good plumbers merchant
that sells radiators etc. and although some koi keepers do heat their
ponds a bit in the winter it isn't necessary. I and others use a CH pump
for the filters.
Yes a central heating pump is very efficient, probably the most efficient
type of pump.
This is the sort of thing http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/348-195



Also, if I got for the system I indicated on my orgininal post I wonder
whether using an standard box filter with the EcoClear 18000 would work
as the EcoClear is a pressurised system or would that make no
difference?

Put it after the pressurised filter and it will "polish" the water making
it crystal clear. If you go down the CH pump route you need to discuss
with the plumbers merchant what pump you need to give you the pressure
(or head) to run your "pressurised" filter, but what's the advantage of
the pressure filter over the sort you already have? The water has to have
time in the filter for the bacteria to work, pumping it through at speed
will not work.

Can I also get new materials for my existing filter should I wish to
continue using it?

Yes you can, either from an aquatic shop like the one whose URL I already
mentioned or get some Filter Foam from a foam shop, but wash it
thoroughly before use.

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London




My parents have 15 koi in what is little better than an old farm pond ‹ they
all seem fine, some about 18* long, breed and they've been there for about
20 years. So long as there's enough vegetation to hide from the herons tehy
shift for themselves. Are you sure all this equipment is really necessary?

"Richard Kerry" wrote .
Many thanks for all the useful advice, now I have even more questions I'm
afraid! The pond we inherited is about 7 years old so the "Koi" seem to
have been ok in their existing environment, longer term (end of 05) I'd
like to dig the pond out so the advice I need is to get the appropriate
pump and filters that will work today and also in the future.

Where do I get a CH pump from? Do I need a CH pump for heating and an
ordinary pump for the filters? Is a CH pump energy effecient as I've seen
some inexpensive (aka cheap) pumps running crazy currents so NOT a good
idea 24/7.

You get a Central Heating (Grundfos) pump from any good plumbers merchant
that sells radiators etc. and although some koi keepers do heat their ponds
a bit in the winter it isn't necessary. I and others use a CH pump for the
filters.
Yes a central heating pump is very efficient, probably the most efficient
type of pump.
This is the sort of thing http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/348-195



Also, if I got for the system I indicated on my orgininal post I wonder
whether using an standard box filter with the EcoClear 18000 would work as
the EcoClear is a pressurised system or would that make no difference?

Put it after the pressurised filter and it will "polish" the water making it
crystal clear. If you go down the CH pump route you need to discuss with the
plumbers merchant what pump you need to give you the pressure (or head) to
run your "pressurised" filter, but what's the advantage of the pressure
filter over the sort you already have? The water has to have time in the
filter for the bacteria to work, pumping it through at speed will not work.

Can I also get new materials for my existing filter should I wish to
continue using it?

Yes you can, either from an aquatic shop like the one whose URL I already
mentioned or get some Filter Foam from a foam shop, but wash it thoroughly
before use.

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

Hi Bob,

Thanks again....so, how do I configure a workable filters, UV & Grundfos
pumps combination?

How do I know which pump would be suitable for a pond my size today and
tommorow? If I went down the Grundfos route how do I know if the pump is
suitable, what am I looking for when I speak with the plumbing chaps?

If I decided not to use the pressurised system, how would I configure a
filter (standard box type), UV & Grundfos pump setup? How many gph/lph for
the pump to process? What size UV, presumably installed in line??

You also mention that the pump needs to be below water level? Does this mean
below the water line or below the bottom of the pond? Either way it would
seem that I would have to dig a (waterproofed) hole for installation? And
what about connectors? And checking the Grundfos web site won't this pump be
affected by

Apologies for so many questions, yet again! The more I learn the more I
realise the more I need to learn...........

kind regards,
Richard


"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...

"Richard Kerry" wrote .
Many thanks for all the useful advice, now I have even more questions I'm
afraid! The pond we inherited is about 7 years old so the "Koi" seem to
have been ok in their existing environment, longer term (end of 05) I'd
like to dig the pond out so the advice I need is to get the appropriate
pump and filters that will work today and also in the future.

Where do I get a CH pump from? Do I need a CH pump for heating and an
ordinary pump for the filters? Is a CH pump energy effecient as I've seen
some inexpensive (aka cheap) pumps running crazy currents so NOT a good
idea 24/7.

You get a Central Heating (Grundfos) pump from any good plumbers merchant
that sells radiators etc. and although some koi keepers do heat their
ponds a bit in the winter it isn't necessary. I and others use a CH pump
for the filters.
Yes a central heating pump is very efficient, probably the most efficient
type of pump.
This is the sort of thing http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/348-195



Also, if I got for the system I indicated on my orgininal post I wonder
whether using an standard box filter with the EcoClear 18000 would work
as the EcoClear is a pressurised system or would that make no difference?

Put it after the pressurised filter and it will "polish" the water making
it crystal clear. If you go down the CH pump route you need to discuss
with the plumbers merchant what pump you need to give you the pressure (or
head) to run your "pressurised" filter, but what's the advantage of the
pressure filter over the sort you already have? The water has to have time
in the filter for the bacteria to work, pumping it through at speed will
not work.

Can I also get new materials for my existing filter should I wish to
continue using it?

Yes you can, either from an aquatic shop like the one whose URL I already
mentioned or get some Filter Foam from a foam shop, but wash it thoroughly
before use.

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

Oops - to finish my previous sentence:

"And checking the Grundfos web site won't this pump be affected by" the cold
e.g. the pump operating temperature is above zero as the mininum....

Richard

"Richard Kerry" wrote in message
...
Hi Bob,

Thanks again....so, how do I configure a workable filters, UV & Grundfos
pumps combination?

How do I know which pump would be suitable for a pond my size today and
tommorow? If I went down the Grundfos route how do I know if the pump is
suitable, what am I looking for when I speak with the plumbing chaps?

If I decided not to use the pressurised system, how would I configure a
filter (standard box type), UV & Grundfos pump setup? How many gph/lph for
the pump to process? What size UV, presumably installed in line??

You also mention that the pump needs to be below water level? Does this
mean below the water line or below the bottom of the pond? Either way it
would seem that I would have to dig a (waterproofed) hole for
installation? And what about connectors? And checking the Grundfos web
site won't this pump be affected by

Apologies for so many questions, yet again! The more I learn the more I
realise the more I need to learn...........

kind regards,
Richard


"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...

"Richard Kerry" wrote .
Many thanks for all the useful advice, now I have even more questions
I'm afraid! The pond we inherited is about 7 years old so the "Koi" seem
to have been ok in their existing environment, longer term (end of 05)
I'd like to dig the pond out so the advice I need is to get the
appropriate pump and filters that will work today and also in the
future.

Where do I get a CH pump from? Do I need a CH pump for heating and an
ordinary pump for the filters? Is a CH pump energy effecient as I've
seen some inexpensive (aka cheap) pumps running crazy currents so NOT a
good idea 24/7.

You get a Central Heating (Grundfos) pump from any good plumbers merchant
that sells radiators etc. and although some koi keepers do heat their
ponds a bit in the winter it isn't necessary. I and others use a CH pump
for the filters.
Yes a central heating pump is very efficient, probably the most efficient
type of pump.
This is the sort of thing http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/348-195



Also, if I got for the system I indicated on my orgininal post I wonder
whether using an standard box filter with the EcoClear 18000 would work
as the EcoClear is a pressurised system or would that make no
difference?

Put it after the pressurised filter and it will "polish" the water making
it crystal clear. If you go down the CH pump route you need to discuss
with the plumbers merchant what pump you need to give you the pressure
(or head) to run your "pressurised" filter, but what's the advantage of
the pressure filter over the sort you already have? The water has to have
time in the filter for the bacteria to work, pumping it through at speed
will not work.

Can I also get new materials for my existing filter should I wish to
continue using it?

Yes you can, either from an aquatic shop like the one whose URL I already
mentioned or get some Filter Foam from a foam shop, but wash it
thoroughly before use.

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

In article , Magwitch writes

Snipped

My parents have 15 koi in what is little better than an old farm pond ‹ they
all seem fine, some about 18* long, breed and they've been there for about
20 years. So long as there's enough vegetation to hide from the herons tehy
shift for themselves. Are you sure all this equipment is really necessary?

Depends on the size of the pond, plants and number of fish, ponds can
become self sustaining if the conditions are right, I have gone the
equipment route but my neighbour just leaves his natural and the Koi
seem fine, my brother in law has gone to the extremes with equipment and
treatment and lost a lot of (expensive!) fish
--
David

I also forgot to ask how I would link up the Grundfos pump pond end e.g.
wouldn't it need a filter of some sort on the end?

Richard

"Richard Kerry" wrote in message
...
Oops - to finish my previous sentence:

"And checking the Grundfos web site won't this pump be affected by" the
cold e.g. the pump operating temperature is above zero as the mininum....

Richard

"Richard Kerry" wrote in message
...
Hi Bob,

Thanks again....so, how do I configure a workable filters, UV & Grundfos
pumps combination?

How do I know which pump would be suitable for a pond my size today and
tommorow? If I went down the Grundfos route how do I know if the pump is
suitable, what am I looking for when I speak with the plumbing chaps?

If I decided not to use the pressurised system, how would I configure a
filter (standard box type), UV & Grundfos pump setup? How many gph/lph
for the pump to process? What size UV, presumably installed in line??

You also mention that the pump needs to be below water level? Does this
mean below the water line or below the bottom of the pond? Either way it
would seem that I would have to dig a (waterproofed) hole for
installation? And what about connectors? And checking the Grundfos web
site won't this pump be affected by

Apologies for so many questions, yet again! The more I learn the more I
realise the more I need to learn...........

kind regards,
Richard


"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...

"Richard Kerry" wrote .
Many thanks for all the useful advice, now I have even more questions
I'm afraid! The pond we inherited is about 7 years old so the "Koi"
seem to have been ok in their existing environment, longer term (end of
05) I'd like to dig the pond out so the advice I need is to get the
appropriate pump and filters that will work today and also in the
future.

Where do I get a CH pump from? Do I need a CH pump for heating and an
ordinary pump for the filters? Is a CH pump energy effecient as I've
seen some inexpensive (aka cheap) pumps running crazy currents so NOT a
good idea 24/7.

You get a Central Heating (Grundfos) pump from any good plumbers
merchant that sells radiators etc. and although some koi keepers do heat
their ponds a bit in the winter it isn't necessary. I and others use a
CH pump for the filters.
Yes a central heating pump is very efficient, probably the most
efficient type of pump.
This is the sort of thing http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/348-195



Also, if I got for the system I indicated on my orgininal post I wonder
whether using an standard box filter with the EcoClear 18000 would work
as the EcoClear is a pressurised system or would that make no
difference?

Put it after the pressurised filter and it will "polish" the water
making it crystal clear. If you go down the CH pump route you need to
discuss with the plumbers merchant what pump you need to give you the
pressure (or head) to run your "pressurised" filter, but what's the
advantage of the pressure filter over the sort you already have? The
water has to have time in the filter for the bacteria to work, pumping
it through at speed will not work.

Can I also get new materials for my existing filter should I wish to
continue using it?

Yes you can, either from an aquatic shop like the one whose URL I
already mentioned or get some Filter Foam from a foam shop, but wash it
thoroughly before use.

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

"Richard Kerry" wrote
Thanks again....so, how do I configure a workable filters, UV & Grundfos
pumps combination?

Depends how you intend to site your filters, if they are set into the ground
with a pipe from about the middle depth of the pond you can let the water
simply flood across to the filter through the UV. Then the pump is placed
after the filter connected to a pipe from the bottom of the filter then back
into the pond through a venturi which will greatly increase the gas exchange
between air and water.


How do I know which pump would be suitable for a pond my size today and
tommorow? If I went down the Grundfos route how do I know if the pump is
suitable, what am I looking for when I speak with the plumbing chaps?

Gals or Litres per hour, and you can find out how many your filter needs
first and then get the correct pump. If it's a big plumbers merchants then
you won't have been the first pond keeper to ask about such things.


If I decided not to use the pressurised system, how would I configure a
filter (standard box type), UV & Grundfos pump setup? How many gph/lph for
the pump to process? What size UV, presumably installed in line??

As above, the volumn per hour depends on the size of filter and those
details should be available when you buy one. Simply get a UV for the same
volumn, the bulbs only last a season though so check they aren't too
expensive.


You also mention that the pump needs to be below water level? Does this
mean below the water line or below the bottom of the pond? Either way it
would seem that I would have to dig a (waterproofed) hole for
installation? And what about connectors? And checking the Grundfos web
site won't this pump be affected by

Below water level as they don't suck and need a constant feed of water, they
will push it up 40 or even 60 feet but they can't suck at all.
Yes they must be kept dry, but it's not as difficult as it might at first
seem. The Grundfos will need to be connected through a weatherproof outside
socket which can be wired to the dry hole you intend putting it in. A square
plastic bin, small water tank, with a tight fitting lid would do.
I have never had a problem with cold affecting the pump and I've used them
for over 20 years. They do throw out a bit of heat anyway so in a closed dry
sump they won't get cold. :-)
One advantage of the grundfos is that it has three speeds so you can turn it
up in summer and down in winter.

Apologies for so many questions, yet again! The more I learn the more I
realise the more I need to learn...........


Who said we ever stop learning?

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

"Magwitch" wrote
My parents have 15 koi in what is little better than an old farm pond
they
all seem fine, some about 18* long, breed and they've been there for about
20 years. So long as there's enough vegetation to hide from the herons
tehy
shift for themselves. Are you sure all this equipment is really necessary?


The breeders keep them in mud ponds in Japan as they grow them up and the
show fish are often given a holiday in a mud pond to improve their colour,
green water has a similar effect. However, they are carp and therefore can
shift a lot of mud looking for food, in a mud pond you would be unlikely to
see them because of the cloudiness of the water caused by the fish, which
rather defeats the purpose. A UV will also help stop or control some
diseases.

None of it is strictly necessary to keep Koi but it is if you want to see a
clear pond too. :-)


--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

Hi again,

Can't see how having filters with no pump in front would draw the water into
them? If I went for the standard box filter setup this would be above pond
level so I would need some suction to push the water to the filter
box.....any ideas?

This setup seems back to front to me or am I missing something obvious?

Also, looking into the overall costs (could be quite similar as a complete
pump+filter kit+UV's @ circa £300) what are the benefits of this system?

Richard


"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...

"Richard Kerry" wrote
Thanks again....so, how do I configure a workable filters, UV & Grundfos
pumps combination?

Depends how you intend to site your filters, if they are set into the
ground with a pipe from about the middle depth of the pond you can let the
water simply flood across to the filter through the UV. Then the pump is
placed after the filter connected to a pipe from the bottom of the filter
then back into the pond through a venturi which will greatly increase the
gas exchange between air and water.


How do I know which pump would be suitable for a pond my size today and
tommorow? If I went down the Grundfos route how do I know if the pump is
suitable, what am I looking for when I speak with the plumbing chaps?

Gals or Litres per hour, and you can find out how many your filter needs
first and then get the correct pump. If it's a big plumbers merchants then
you won't have been the first pond keeper to ask about such things.


If I decided not to use the pressurised system, how would I configure a
filter (standard box type), UV & Grundfos pump setup? How many gph/lph
for the pump to process? What size UV, presumably installed in line??

As above, the volumn per hour depends on the size of filter and those
details should be available when you buy one. Simply get a UV for the same
volumn, the bulbs only last a season though so check they aren't too
expensive.


You also mention that the pump needs to be below water level? Does this
mean below the water line or below the bottom of the pond? Either way it
would seem that I would have to dig a (waterproofed) hole for
installation? And what about connectors? And checking the Grundfos web
site won't this pump be affected by

Below water level as they don't suck and need a constant feed of water,
they will push it up 40 or even 60 feet but they can't suck at all.
Yes they must be kept dry, but it's not as difficult as it might at first
seem. The Grundfos will need to be connected through a weatherproof
outside socket which can be wired to the dry hole you intend putting it
in. A square plastic bin, small water tank, with a tight fitting lid would
do.
I have never had a problem with cold affecting the pump and I've used them
for over 20 years. They do throw out a bit of heat anyway so in a closed
dry sump they won't get cold. :-)
One advantage of the grundfos is that it has three speeds so you can turn
it up in summer and down in winter.

Apologies for so many questions, yet again! The more I learn the more I
realise the more I need to learn...........


Who said we ever stop learning?

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

"Richard Kerry" wrote
Can't see how having filters with no pump in front would draw the water
into them? If I went for the standard box filter setup this would be above
pond level so I would need some suction to push the water to the filter
box.....any ideas?

If your filter is at the same height as your pond then as the pump takes
clean water out of the end of the filter more pond water will flood in the
front. Water always finds it's own level. You may need a float switch to
stop the pump running dry if you allow the filter to block up.


This setup seems back to front to me or am I missing something obvious?

There is no reason why you can't put the pump next to the pond and pump the
dirty water into the filters which stand above the pond, clean water from
the other end will then overflow into the pond with a waterfall effect.
My pump is after the first bin (brushes) and it then pumps up to the first
of the foam filters when gravity moves the water through all three foam
filters back into the pond.
Only disadvantages are, you are pumping dirty water so the pump may clog up
and you would need another pump to run a venturi if you needed one.


Also, looking into the overall costs (could be quite similar as a complete
pump+filter kit+UV's @ circa £300) what are the benefits of this system?


The pump is more reliable and costs a lot less to run and less to buy. There
are some filter and UV combinations about without the pump. But, buying the
lot is easier as they should be matched to each other so you won't have to
worry.

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London