Ponds, Herons and Lil'uns
 

"Alison" o.uk wrote
in :

Subject: Ponds, Herons and Lil'uns
From: "Alison" o.uk
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening

Back to this pond thing again (have read previous posts but the heron
bit wasn't covered). Up until now the only 'worry' we've had with the
ponds is the heron thinking it's easy fishing :-( but that has been a
big worry! Now there are horrible unsightly beams straddled across
both ponds with black garden netting stapled on tight. That seems to
have fixed the problem but was a temporary measure until something
more attractive could be found.


We provided a selection of those rounded roof ridge tiles at the bottom of
the pond for the fish to hide in. We still got the odd heron visit, but
didn't lose any fish to it.

This was a small (but fairly deep) pond with only 3 fish, so it was easy to
tell!

Ponds, Herons and Lil'uns
 

in article , Malcolm at
wrote on 24/1/03 8:55 am:


In article , sacha
writes
snip
Apparently, the important
thing is to stop the heron wading in because that's when they catch the fish
and (I'm told) they have fish attracting scent glands in their ankles.

Hmm. Whoever told you that was having you on!

Possibly. But they were passing it on as a bit of 'folklore' they'd been
told themselves. I keep meaning to post a query on a wildlife site - must
get round tuit!

The
thing with the fishing line is that as long as you keep it absolutely taut
it's almost invisible.
I think a small gauge heavy duty wire mesh will do the trick for you. The
herons aren't going to waste their energy trying to catch fish they can't
carry off - they're not stupid!

They will, however, swallow it on the spot and then fly off!

But my point was that if the gauge of the mesh is small, they won't be able
to catch it in the first place.
snip
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk

Ponds, Herons and Lil'uns
 

"Malcolm" wrote in message
...

In article , sacha
writes
in article , Alison at
o.uk wrote on 23/1/03
10:29
pm:

Back to this pond thing again (have read previous posts but the heron
bit
wasn't covered). Up until now the only 'worry' we've had with the
ponds is
the heron thinking it's easy fishing :-( but that has been a big worry!
Now
there are horrible unsightly beams straddled across both ponds with
black
garden netting stapled on tight. That seems to have fixed the problem
but
was a temporary measure until something more attractive could be found.

Now we have the double whammy of a baby on the way. I love the ponds
and
fish so we're not considering filling them in.

One is a very informal wildlife pond (that the birds etc can't even
bathe at
now cos of the ugly protection) about 5m x 7m at extremities. The
other is
a formal round raised pond about 3m diameter with fountain in the
middle.

If we go the heavy-duty-wire-mesh-just-at-surface-and-not-sagging route
for
child safety and attractiveness, will the heron still be capable of
killing
the fish but not making off with them? Can I deter the blasted bird in
any
other supplementary way. The informal pond also has a water jet heron
scarer and, whilst operational, I've never had the guts to rely on it
solely
for protection (hence the netting also).

All suggestions warmly welcolmed as we'd like to get things in place
before
all the pond plants start growing again.

When I had a similar sort of wild life-ish pond, I strung fishing line
around the edges and criss-crossed the pond, too. Apparently, the
important
thing is to stop the heron wading in because that's when they catch the
fish
and (I'm told) they have fish attracting scent glands in their ankles.

Hmm. Whoever told you that was having you on!

The
thing with the fishing line is that as long as you keep it absolutely
taut
it's almost invisible.
I think a small gauge heavy duty wire mesh will do the trick for you.
The
herons aren't going to waste their energy trying to catch fish they can't
carry off - they're not stupid!

They will, however, swallow it on the spot and then fly off!


Wouldn't they have to get the fish through the mesh to be able to swallow
it, Malcolm?

Ponds, Herons and Lil'uns
 

In article , sacha
writes
in article , Malcolm at
wrote on 24/1/03 8:55 am:


In article , sacha
writes
snip
Apparently, the important
thing is to stop the heron wading in because that's when they catch the fish
and (I'm told) they have fish attracting scent glands in their ankles.

Hmm. Whoever told you that was having you on!

Possibly. But they were passing it on as a bit of 'folklore' they'd been
told themselves. I keep meaning to post a query on a wildlife site - must
get round tuit!

Err, you won't get a different answer, or at least not a different one
that is correct :-))


--
Malcolm

Ponds, Herons and Lil'uns
 

in article , Malcolm at
wrote on 24/1/03 9:10 pm:


In article , sacha
writes
in article , Malcolm at
wrote on 24/1/03 8:55 am:


In article , sacha
writes
snip
Apparently, the important
thing is to stop the heron wading in because that's when they catch the
fish
and (I'm told) they have fish attracting scent glands in their ankles.

Hmm. Whoever told you that was having you on!

Possibly. But they were passing it on as a bit of 'folklore' they'd been
told themselves. I keep meaning to post a query on a wildlife site - must
get round tuit!

Err, you won't get a different answer, or at least not a different one
that is correct :-))


But how do you know or indeed how do I know that you know? ;-) Are you a
heron expert?
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk

Ponds, Herons and Lil'uns
 

In article , sacha
writes
in article , Malcolm at
wrote on 24/1/03 9:10 pm:
In article , sacha
writes
in article , Malcolm at
wrote on 24/1/03 8:55 am:
In article , sacha
writes
snip
Apparently, the important
thing is to stop the heron wading in because that's when they catch the
fish
and (I'm told) they have fish attracting scent glands in their ankles.

Hmm. Whoever told you that was having you on!

Possibly. But they were passing it on as a bit of 'folklore' they'd been
told themselves. I keep meaning to post a query on a wildlife site - must
get round tuit!

Err, you won't get a different answer, or at least not a different one
that is correct :-))

But how do you know or indeed how do I know that you know? ;-)

I just know :-)

Are you a
heron expert?

A bird expert, not just herons!

If you want to get technical, birds only have one main external gland,
the preen gland, plus a few tiny glands in the ear opening. They don't
have them in their skin, not even sweat glands. No bird has scent glands
and, even if they did, to have one at the bottom of the leg would be
most unlikely because the leg isn't covered with soft skin, but with a
tough, leathery sheathing.

--
Malcolm

Ponds, Herons and Lil'uns
 

in article , Malcolm at
wrote on 25/1/03 7:37 am:


In article , sacha
writes
in article , Malcolm at
wrote on 24/1/03 9:10 pm:
In article , sacha
writes
in article , Malcolm at
wrote on 24/1/03 8:55 am:
In article , sacha
writes
snip
Apparently, the important
thing is to stop the heron wading in because that's when they catch the
fish
and (I'm told) they have fish attracting scent glands in their ankles.

Hmm. Whoever told you that was having you on!

Possibly. But they were passing it on as a bit of 'folklore' they'd been
told themselves. I keep meaning to post a query on a wildlife site - must
get round tuit!

Err, you won't get a different answer, or at least not a different one
that is correct :-))

But how do you know or indeed how do I know that you know? ;-)

I just know :-)

Are you a
heron expert?

A bird expert, not just herons!

If you want to get technical, birds only have one main external gland,
the preen gland, plus a few tiny glands in the ear opening. They don't
have them in their skin, not even sweat glands. No bird has scent glands
and, even if they did, to have one at the bottom of the leg would be
most unlikely because the leg isn't covered with soft skin, but with a
tough, leathery sheathing.

I think I should tell you at this point that I've had an email informing me
that you are indeed a *very considerable* expert, so I'm more than happy to
take your word for it! Nice to know there is someone so knowledgeable on
this group because queries about birdlife often come up.
Now if you can just tell me why it is that jackdaws so enjoy falling down
chimneys........ ;-) And why our rookery is practically empty during parts
of the summer and then they all come home again......fascinating, really.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk

Ponds, Herons and Lil'uns
 

In article , sacha
writes
in article , Malcolm at
wrote on 25/1/03 7:37 am:
In article , sacha
writes

Are you a
heron expert?

A bird expert, not just herons!

If you want to get technical, birds only have one main external gland,
the preen gland, plus a few tiny glands in the ear opening. They don't
have them in their skin, not even sweat glands. No bird has scent glands
and, even if they did, to have one at the bottom of the leg would be
most unlikely because the leg isn't covered with soft skin, but with a
tough, leathery sheathing.

I think I should tell you at this point that I've had an email informing me
that you are indeed a *very considerable* expert,

Have you, now? Hmm, I wonder who that could have been, though I think I
can guess...

so I'm more than happy to
take your word for it!

Phew!

Nice to know there is someone so knowledgeable on
this group because queries about birdlife often come up.

Oh, I've been here quite a while, because I'm a keen gardener, and have
sometimes answered queries about birdlife, as a way of repaying all the
good advice on offer here about gardening.

Now if you can just tell me why it is that jackdaws so enjoy falling down
chimneys........ ;-)

They're just copying the starlings, though they're not as good at it,
being larger :-)

And why our rookery is practically empty during parts
of the summer and then they all come home again......fascinating, really.

Once the young have left the nest, they are taken by their parents out
into the countryside looking for sources of food, staying as a family
group within a larger flock. The young are fed by their parents for
about six weeks or so. Once they have become independent, the parents
are free to come back to the rookery, which they usually do in
September-October, occasionally earlier, and from then on take a natural
interest in it (sometimes sporadic depending on the weather) until
nest-building starts in earnest in the early spring.

--
Malcolm

Ponds, Herons and Lil'uns
 

"sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
in article , Malcolm at
wrote on 24/1/03 9:10 pm:


In article , sacha
writes
in article , Malcolm at
wrote on 24/1/03 8:55 am:


In article , sacha
writes
snip
Apparently, the important
thing is to stop the heron wading in because that's when they catch
the
fish
and (I'm told) they have fish attracting scent glands in their
ankles.

Hmm. Whoever told you that was having you on!

Possibly. But they were passing it on as a bit of 'folklore' they'd
been
told themselves. I keep meaning to post a query on a wildlife site -
must
get round tuit!

Err, you won't get a different answer, or at least not a different one
that is correct :-))


But how do you know or indeed how do I know that you know? ;-) Are you a
heron expert?

Yes, he is - anything with beak and feathers, Malcolm can probably give you
chapter and verse (and he is very knowledgeable about most wildlife, not
just birds, too).

Although Herons do not have fish attracting scent glands on their ankles,
one heron has been observed dropping bits of bread (filched from people
feeding ducks) into the water to attract small fish within striking range.

Incidentally, I've tried the 'string around the perimeter' technique to
deter herons from my pond, and I've still lost fish.

Ponds, Herons and Lil'uns
 

in article , Malcolm at
wrote on 25/1/03 7:29 pm:


In article , sacha
writes
snip
And why our rookery is practically empty during parts
of the summer and then they all come home again......fascinating, really.

Once the young have left the nest, they are taken by their parents out
into the countryside looking for sources of food, staying as a family
group within a larger flock. The young are fed by their parents for
about six weeks or so. Once they have become independent, the parents
are free to come back to the rookery, which they usually do in
September-October, occasionally earlier, and from then on take a natural
interest in it (sometimes sporadic depending on the weather) until
nest-building starts in earnest in the early spring.

Thank you! We've seen signs of them starting to build now but I imagine
it's not serious construction work yet. The sparrows are certainly nest
building, though. I was fascinated to learn about the rooks that the reason
one sees them flying in pairs to pick up twigs but only one of them coming
back with a stick, is that the unencumbered one is the male riding 'shotgun'
to prevent 'his woman' from mating with another!
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk

Ponds, Herons and Lil'uns
 

In article , sacha
writes
in article , Malcolm at
wrote on 25/1/03 7:29 pm:


In article , sacha
writes
snip
And why our rookery is practically empty during parts
of the summer and then they all come home again......fascinating, really.

Once the young have left the nest, they are taken by their parents out
into the countryside looking for sources of food, staying as a family
group within a larger flock. The young are fed by their parents for
about six weeks or so. Once they have become independent, the parents
are free to come back to the rookery, which they usually do in
September-October, occasionally earlier, and from then on take a natural
interest in it (sometimes sporadic depending on the weather) until
nest-building starts in earnest in the early spring.

Thank you! We've seen signs of them starting to build now but I imagine
it's not serious construction work yet. The sparrows are certainly nest
building, though. I was fascinated to learn about the rooks that the reason
one sees them flying in pairs to pick up twigs but only one of them coming
back with a stick, is that the unencumbered one is the male riding 'shotgun'
to prevent 'his woman' from mating with another!

Who've you been listening to again? Ask your informant how they know
this and why it isn't the male having to carry the stick because the
female
doesn't want him chasing after other females?

As the sexes are identical in plumage, it's almost impossible to say
which is which when they're in flight, and pretty difficult even if you
see them side by side on the nest, when the male is very slightly the
larger. Of course, if you happen to see them copulate, then the male is
the one on top!

In fact, studies have shown that it is the male which usually does most
of the stick collecting while the female does more of the actual
building of the nest. And it is often normal for the female to stand
guard over the nest to stop neighbours stealing twigs from it while the
male is away twig collecting.

--
Malcolm

Ponds, Herons and Lil'uns
 

"Malcolm" wrote in message
...

In article , sacha
writes
in article , Malcolm at
wrote on 25/1/03 7:29 pm:


In article , sacha
writes
snip
snip

I was fascinated to learn about the rooks that the reason
one sees them flying in pairs to pick up twigs but only one of them
coming
back with a stick, is that the unencumbered one is the male riding
'shotgun'
to prevent 'his woman' from mating with another!

Who've you been listening to again? Ask your informant how they know
this and why it isn't the male having to carry the stick because the
female
doesn't want him chasing after other females?


Haven't you heard, Malcolm? It's the latest in corvid female cosmetics,
'beak-stick' :-)

Ponds, Herons and Lil'uns
 

in article , Malcolm at
wrote on 27/1/03 10:06 pm:

snip
sacha wrote:
I was fascinated to learn about the rooks that the reason
one sees them flying in pairs to pick up twigs but only one of them coming
back with a stick, is that the unencumbered one is the male riding 'shotgun'
to prevent 'his woman' from mating with another!

Who've you been listening to again? Ask your informant how they know
this and why it isn't the male having to carry the stick because the
female
doesn't want him chasing after other females?

As the sexes are identical in plumage, it's almost impossible to say
which is which when they're in flight, and pretty difficult even if you
see them side by side on the nest, when the male is very slightly the
larger. Of course, if you happen to see them copulate, then the male is
the one on top!

I might just notice that. Being a female and all..... ;-)

In fact, studies have shown that it is the male which usually does most
of the stick collecting while the female does more of the actual
building of the nest. And it is often normal for the female to stand
guard over the nest to stop neighbours stealing twigs from it while the
male is away twig collecting.

I hope I haven't misquoted someone but I asked on the ornithology group
quite a while back and I thought I correctly remembered that as the answer I
got. I watch rooks and jackdaws wandering around the lawn in the very early
morning hours, squabbling over the food and behaving like yobs generally but
I can't pretend to tell males from females!

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk

Ponds, Herons and Lil'uns
 

in article , BAC at
wrote on 28/1/03 9:20 am:


"Malcolm" wrote in message
...

In article , sacha
writes
in article , Malcolm at
wrote on 25/1/03 7:29 pm:


In article , sacha
writes
snip
snip

I was fascinated to learn about the rooks that the reason
one sees them flying in pairs to pick up twigs but only one of them
coming
back with a stick, is that the unencumbered one is the male riding
'shotgun'
to prevent 'his woman' from mating with another!

Who've you been listening to again? Ask your informant how they know
this and why it isn't the male having to carry the stick because the
female
doesn't want him chasing after other females?


Haven't you heard, Malcolm? It's the latest in corvid female cosmetics,
'beak-stick' :-)


Oh now that is VERY good!
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk