"John Edgar" wrote in message
ups.com...
Why am I vile for wanting to kill vermin? I might be considered vile if
I wanted to kill another human, but vermin? What is so special about
grey squirrels? Please explain your point of view.

Are you sure you missed the point? Are you really *that* dim?
The objection here is not necessarily the killing or this species of animal,
but the methods used to kill. Any rational, normal human being, would want
to kill quickly, and painlessly whereas you seem to want to cause the most
suffeerring and seem not to feel any compassion at all for a creature you
seem to fear or hate. This is simply not rational.

In message , BAC
writes

"John Edgar" wrote in message
roups.com...
How can it be inhumane? We are not dealing with humans, but animals and
vermin at that.


I'm assuming you are responding to a post which suggested that killing
squirrels by drowning might be considered inhumane?

Do you believe it is impossible to be inhumane to any non-human animal? If
so, how would you define 'humane'?


I think humane is treating any species with the dignity and kindness
that I would afford a 'human' under the same circumstances. In fact I
think some humans are the only creatures that I could delight in killing
slowly :-))
--
Sue Begg
Remove my clothes to reply

Do not mess in the affairs of dragons - for
you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

On Thu, 5 May 2005 16:36:09 +0100, pammyT wrote:

IIRC the killing of any animal whether vermin or not, must be done
humanely and without causing pain or fear,

On that basis ordinary rat poison can hardly be called humane, it is
not a nice death.

I do agree that drowning is not really acceptable. Shoot or hit over
the head or wring it's neck. If you can't kill by the latter two
methods then perhaps you shouldn't be killing in the first place.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

The message .com
from "John Edgar" contains these words:

Please explain the use of the word "tosser" in this context

Please don't feed the trolls.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

The message om
from "Dave Liquorice" contains these words:
On Thu, 5 May 2005 16:36:09 +0100, pammyT wrote:

IIRC the killing of any animal whether vermin or not, must be done
humanely and without causing pain or fear,

On that basis ordinary rat poison can hardly be called humane, it is
not a nice death.

It depends on the poison. Strychnine might fit your bill, but I think
it's illegal, except for killing moles. Warfarin is humane, in that the
rat/mouse &c is slowly weakened by continuous slight bleeding from the
villi in the small intestine. It gets weaker and lapses into a coma,
then dies.

There is no pain involved.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

On Thu, 5 May 2005 20:39:15 +0100, Jaques d'Alltrades wrote:

Warfarin is humane, in that the rat/mouse &c is slowly weakened by
continuous slight bleeding from the villi in the small intestine. It
gets weaker and lapses into a coma, then dies.

There is no pain involved.

Have you seen a poisoned rat just before it "lapses into a coma"? I
have, it was not happy, wheezing, hardly able to move, bleeding from
the mouth, nose and ears. It looked in pain to me, certainly not just
quietly falling asleep and dieing. I put it out of it's misery with a
whack to the back of the head.

This was common "off the shelf" Rentokil Rat & Mouse killer active
ingredient bromadiolone rather than warfarin itself. They both act in
the same manner though by blocking the Vitamin K dependant synthesis
of prothrombin.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

John Edgar wrote:
In what way is it illegal to kill vermin by drowning them? One of the
best ways I would have thought. I believe it is illegal to drown
humans, but grey squirrels?

It isn't illegal, although it is illegal to drown them "with intent to
inflict unnecessary suffering". Also, it does not take very long at all.
The alternative is to run it from the trap into a sack (a cloth one),
push it into a corner with your foot, and belt it with something.

John Edgar wrote:
How would they find out? Another unworkable law like the law making use
of mobiles while driving illegal.

Erm, that law is quite workable, much like the seat-belt law.

Who cares about abuse of vermin like grey squirrels anyway?

Well, I do, for one. It's unacceptable. If setting traps, for instance,
you *must* inspect them frequently.

Anyway, this is getting somewhat OT for u.r.g.

Jaques d'Alltrades wrote:
It depends on the poison. Strychnine might fit your bill, but I think
it's illegal, except for killing moles.

Strychnine is one of the more disagreeable poisons. I do not
think it is humane at all. It is also highly dangerous to the
general population, and persistent.

To quote from my dictionary "psychopath - a person suffering from
chronic mental disorder with abnormal or violent social behaviour."
Exactly how social is a relationship with a grey squirrel - dead or
alive?

The message om
from "Dave Liquorice" contains these words:
On Thu, 5 May 2005 20:39:15 +0100, Jaques d'Alltrades wrote:

Warfarin is humane, in that the rat/mouse &c is slowly weakened by
continuous slight bleeding from the villi in the small intestine. It
gets weaker and lapses into a coma, then dies.

There is no pain involved.

Have you seen a poisoned rat just before it "lapses into a coma"? I
have, it was not happy, wheezing, hardly able to move, bleeding from
the mouth, nose and ears. It looked in pain to me, certainly not just
quietly falling asleep and dieing. I put it out of it's misery with a
whack to the back of the head.

Seen many times - thousands, even. I used to have a smallholding, and
later, I lived for some years on a large farm.

This was common "off the shelf" Rentokil Rat & Mouse killer active
ingredient bromadiolone rather than warfarin itself. They both act in
the same manner though by blocking the Vitamin K dependant synthesis
of prothrombin.

Yup. And by the time they get to the state you describe they are barely
concious.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

"John Edgar" wrote in message
ups.com...
To quote from my dictionary "psychopath - a person suffering from
chronic mental disorder with abnormal or violent social behaviour."
Exactly how social is a relationship with a grey squirrel - dead or
alive?


Has someone called you a psychopath, then? It's difficult to tell when you
snip all the context.

Sorry. I am using Google groups and am not too used to it. I don't know
how to include the original postings. Any ideas?

The message
from Chris Bacon contains these words:
Jaques d'Alltrades wrote:

It depends on the poison. Strychnine might fit your bill, but I think
it's illegal, except for killing moles.

Strychnine is one of the more disagreeable poisons. I do not
think it is humane at all. It is also highly dangerous to the
general population, and persistent.

This is true, and the reason why pest control people have to be licensed
to acquire it.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

The message om
from "John Edgar" contains these words:

Sorry. I am using Google groups and am not too used to it. I don't know
how to include the original postings. Any ideas?

Yes - doesn't your ISP have a newsfeed? Then you can use a proper
newsreader, such as Thunderbird (with Firefox), Opera News, Netscape
Communicator, I think Agent does news as well as mail, oh, lots of
decent programs are available.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/