On Wed, 04 May 2005 18:46:02 GMT, "Crazy Aljy"
ifyouspammeiwillripyourheadoff@abcdefghijklmnopqr stuvwxyzabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijk.com
wrote:


"Malcolm" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 04 May 2005 03:21:16 +0200, Guardian Pegasus
Pope.Been-a-Dick.Adolf.Panzer.Rat.Nazinger.Torquemada.II@holys ee.va
wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2005 15:39:07 GMT, (Janet)
wrote:

No they're not. The numbers are kept artificially high so you can
enjoy shooting. It's not culling its hunting. Stop the hunting and
these so called mysterious high numbers of wildlife will revert back
to their natural balance of living in harmony with nature. WE force
the high numbers not the animals.

A lurker slinks in hoping to inject some sense into the debate by pointing
to Assynt, Sutherland.

The landowners there will not allow a cull to take place. Hunting is limited
almost to the point where it doesn't happen. Deer are still rampant and
numbers are on the increase. Where's your evidence that "WE force the high
numbers" there?

Plenty. See below


The area has few trees. The woodland that does exist is under threat because
of the number of deer roaming the hills. The local human inhabitants are
trying to rectify this by planting new trees, but to prevent the trees from
being eaten before they're established, the land is fenced off, displacing
the deer.

Surely you're not saying the whole area is being planted. What % are
you talking about?


It leaves the animals with nowhere to go, so they are often to be found
wandering along the narrow, single-track, unlit roads at night. They can't
get to their usual food source, so they raid stores of sheep and cattle feed
from local crofts. The crofters generally sympathise with their plight and
let them get on with it.

Deer will always like humans be opportunists where there is a handy
meal. If the population is rising it must be sustainable.


Now the deer are frequently to be seen in local villages where they can find
food. They're more wary of Highland cattle than they are of humans.

Urban foxes are at the same trick; encouraged by messy humans.


Hunting, culling, call it what you will, is not increasing the deer
population. The deer population is growing DESPITE that.

No, see below.


A few blatantly obvious points though, if you care to think about them.

Not obvious at all.


First, culling is only a short-term solution to a long-term problem. It's
not helping the situation.

Exactly right.


Second, leaving nature to get on with it, as you seem to be suggesting, is
no solution at all. We've wiped out all the predators that preyed on deer
and destroyed their natural environments. Now the deer are destroying their
own environments at an alarming rate.

No. They're "destroying" what man wants. Deer populations will
stabilise in accordance with their habitat the same as all other
wildlife.


Third, a solution. Rebuild what we destroyed and bring back the predators.

Not a solution either. Predators would be shot by hunters for the
same reason they kill raptors.

Nature might know what she's doing, but she needs the tools to do it. It's
probably the only solution, even if a helluva lot of people do have qualms
about the reintroduction of wolves, bears, and the like.

Not a solution.


Maybe not. We could always go down the same road we did with the rabbit
population and introduce yet another man-made disease into the environment.
No thanks!

Glad you agree that's not acceptable.



Charities such as the Woodland Trust are using the services of known
hunters to kill deer in their woodlands.

So-called conservationists would have us believe that it is necessary
to reduce deer numbers to an acceptable population level that doesn't
cause ecological damage. When asked why the population has increased
so rapidly, they tell us that deer reproduce prolifically and that
there are no large predators, namely the wolf, left to control their
numbers. On the face of it, that seems a reasonable explanation but it
is more of a plausible excuse for hunters to enjoy their grizzly fun
and conservationists to employ them to hunt in almost exactly the same
way under the more respectable guise of culling.

There is no doubt that wolves were predators of deer, but not for a
very long time. The last wolf was killed in the UK around 1750, more
than 250 years ago, and their numbers were in serious decline for many
decades before that. So it is reasonable to assume that wolves have
had little impact on deer for the past 300 - 350 years. With that in
mind one could be excused for thinking that deer numbers would have
escalated at an enormous rate over that period. But it is only in the
last 50-60 years that their numbers have increased significantly,
coinciding with a thriving hunting industry and reforestation that
provides shelter.

So is there a connection? Of course there is!

To understand the whole sorry mess, one must examine the structure and
covert allegiances between hunters and conservationists who, including
the Woodland Trust, form alliances within "deer management groups"
that are overseen by the Deer Commission to maintain an artificially
high deer population to satisfy the requirements of hunting estates.
But as deer know no boundaries, the population expands to other areas
unchecked, where they can damage unprotected saplings, ground flora
and ground nesting habitats.

This is when the deceit of the conservationists comes to the fore.
Having supped with the hunters, they now tell us they need to cull
deer to reduce the increase in population that the hunters responsible
for in the first place. This horrid cycle to continues year after
year.

So why don't the conservationists abandon their hunting friends and
join forces with the animal activists who oppose hunting? Not a
chance - it's all about money. The government via the Deer Commission
wishes to maintain the hunting industry as an economic benefit for
hunting estates and the conservationists depend on grants via the
Forestry Authority to plant their trees.

The conservationists won't bite the hand that feeds them and the deer
are the losers.

Make the CONservationists the losers by withdrawing your support.



Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk