Stony ground / top soil - newbie question
 

I wonder if someone can advise me please?

I've just had my large, derelict front garden levelled and rotivated,
leaving me, I'd hoped with a great expanse of beautiful soil to start
cultivating.

Trouble is, now that the matted grass and weeds have been removed, I see
that the soil is incredibly stony. Could someone advise what the best thing
to do here is please?

The plan is to have a pond, four vegetable beds, a couple of flower beds,
and the rest lawn.

Do I try to get rid of the stones? This seems like it would be a
never-ending task. The ground is quite compacted and I suspect there's more
stoniness beneath. Or would it be an idea to buy in a load of top soil? As I
said, it's quite a big area - probably 20 metres by 25 metres - so it would
need a lot of soil. But would it solve the problem anyway?

Would it be feasible to think in terms of building raised beds for the veg
and just grass-seeding the rest? Though I presume it would be very hard to
mow if it was this stony?

Sorry for all these questions, but I'm really unsure what the best option
is.

Cheers

Clarissa

On 6/5/05 3:22 pm, in article ,
"ClarissaGG" wrote:

I wonder if someone can advise me please?

I've just had my large, derelict front garden levelled and rotivated,
leaving me, I'd hoped with a great expanse of beautiful soil to start
cultivating.

Trouble is, now that the matted grass and weeds have been removed, I see
that the soil is incredibly stony. Could someone advise what the best thing
to do here is please?

The plan is to have a pond, four vegetable beds, a couple of flower beds,
and the rest lawn.

Do I try to get rid of the stones? This seems like it would be a
never-ending task. The ground is quite compacted and I suspect there's more
stoniness beneath. Or would it be an idea to buy in a load of top soil? As I
said, it's quite a big area - probably 20 metres by 25 metres - so it would
need a lot of soil. But would it solve the problem anyway?

Would it be feasible to think in terms of building raised beds for the veg
and just grass-seeding the rest? Though I presume it would be very hard to
mow if it was this stony?

Sorry for all these questions, but I'm really unsure what the best option
is.

Depending on how large the area is, is it feasible to have the pond and beds
and then pave the rest?
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

ClarissaGG wrote:
I've just had my large, derelict front garden levelled and rotivated,
leaving me, I'd hoped with a great expanse of beautiful soil to start
cultivating.

Trouble is, now that the matted grass and weeds have been removed, I see
that the soil is incredibly stony. Could someone advise what the best thing
to do here is please?

What sort of stones? What sort of soil? (approximately) where are you?

"Chris Bacon" wrote in message
...
ClarissaGG wrote:
I've just had my large, derelict front garden levelled and rotivated,
leaving me, I'd hoped with a great expanse of beautiful soil to start
cultivating.

Trouble is, now that the matted grass and weeds have been removed, I see
that the soil is incredibly stony. Could someone advise what the best
thing to do here is please?

What sort of stones? What sort of soil? (approximately) where are you?

What sort of stones? Mm! Smallish pebbles and bit of broken rock rather than
great lumps of concrete left over from building work.

We're in Berkshire. The soil is clay, though couldn't tell you much more
about it at the moment.

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
On 6/5/05 3:22 pm, in article ,
"ClarissaGG" wrote:

I wonder if someone can advise me please?

Depending on how large the area is, is it feasible to have the pond and
beds
and then pave the rest?

Well we could, but there's already a gravel drive alongside the garden so it
would be nice to have some more greenery.

ClarissaGG wrote:
"Chris Bacon" wrote in message...
ClarissaGG wrote:

I've just had my large, derelict front garden levelled and rotivated,
leaving me, I'd hoped with a great expanse of beautiful soil to start
cultivating.

Trouble is, now that the matted grass and weeds have been removed, I see
that the soil is incredibly stony. Could someone advise what the best
thing to do here is please?

What sort of stones? What sort of soil? (approximately) where are you?

What sort of stones? Mm! Smallish pebbles and bit of broken rock rather than
great lumps of concrete left over from building work.

We're in Berkshire. The soil is clay, though couldn't tell you much more
about it at the moment.

Once you've got grass established, I can't see stones being a
problem. What sort of pond? One with a liner? You can "blind"
the soil with sand before laying it. Vegetables and flowers?
I've seen some hideously stony ground, more like soil and
shards of slate, in the S.W., very productive. Perhaps it's
a non-problem, especially if you pick out larger stones as
you go? (put the larger around the border of your ground, c.f.
"acre stones"). Is your soil "chalky"?

"Chris Bacon" wrote in message
...
ClarissaGG wrote:
"Chris Bacon" wrote in message...
ClarissaGG wrote:

I've just had my large, derelict front garden levelled and rotivated,
leaving me, I'd hoped with a great expanse of beautiful soil to start
cultivating.

Trouble is, now that the matted grass and weeds have been removed, I see
that the soil is incredibly stony. Could someone advise what the best
thing to do here is please?

What sort of stones? What sort of soil? (approximately) where are you?

What sort of stones? Mm! Smallish pebbles and bit of broken rock rather
than great lumps of concrete left over from building work.

We're in Berkshire. The soil is clay, though couldn't tell you much more
about it at the moment.

Once you've got grass established, I can't see stones being a
problem. What sort of pond? One with a liner? You can "blind"
the soil with sand before laying it. Vegetables and flowers?
I've seen some hideously stony ground, more like soil and
shards of slate, in the S.W., very productive. Perhaps it's
a non-problem, especially if you pick out larger stones as
you go? (put the larger around the border of your ground, c.f.
"acre stones"). Is your soil "chalky"?

Maybe it IS a non-problem, Chris! I suppose I'm thinking that mowing grass
on stony soil might be a bit sort of bumpy. But perhaps the stones settle
down once the grass comes through?

The pond isn't a worry. I know there are various ways of protecting the
liner with sand and newspaper etc.

Thanks for the help.

C.

"ClarissaGG" wrote in message
...

"Chris Bacon" wrote in message
...
ClarissaGG wrote:
"Chris Bacon" wrote in message...
ClarissaGG wrote:

I've just had my large, derelict front garden levelled and rotivated,
leaving me, I'd hoped with a great expanse of beautiful soil to start
cultivating.

Trouble is, now that the matted grass and weeds have been removed, I
see that the soil is incredibly stony. Could someone advise what the
best thing to do here is please?

What sort of stones? What sort of soil? (approximately) where are you?

What sort of stones? Mm! Smallish pebbles and bit of broken rock rather
than great lumps of concrete left over from building work.

We're in Berkshire. The soil is clay, though couldn't tell you much more
about it at the moment.

Once you've got grass established, I can't see stones being a
problem. What sort of pond? One with a liner? You can "blind"
the soil with sand before laying it. Vegetables and flowers?
I've seen some hideously stony ground, more like soil and
shards of slate, in the S.W., very productive. Perhaps it's
a non-problem, especially if you pick out larger stones as
you go? (put the larger around the border of your ground, c.f.
"acre stones"). Is your soil "chalky"?

Maybe it IS a non-problem, Chris! I suppose I'm thinking that mowing grass
on stony soil might be a bit sort of bumpy. But perhaps the stones settle
down once the grass comes through?

The pond isn't a worry. I know there are various ways of protecting the
liner with sand and newspaper etc.

Thanks for the help.

C.


You'll have to rake off the stones if you seed, less important if you turf.

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

Janet that was a wonderful caring answer. So pleased you are taking advice
not to be so 'stern'. Please keep it up, it makes a so much better 'you'
:-)) and so much more friendly to those new to this newsgroup and gardening
in general :-))

Mike

Janet that was a wonderful caring answer. So pleased you are taking advice
not to be so 'stern'. Please keep it up, it makes a so much better 'you'
:-)) and so much more friendly to those new to this newsgroup and
gardening
in general :-))

Mike



Sacha

You might like to take notice of the above advice as well.

NEWBIES TO GARDENING

Janet and Sacha have a wealth of information and knowledge, as do many other
subscribers of the newsgroup. Unfortunately, they forget that once, many,
many, many, many years ago, they too were as you are now, new. New to
gardening and without knowledge. They don't mean to be 'hard' or 'stern',
but 'newbies' crop up, (do you like that?) crop up every year and they do
tend to impose a feeling of 'Oh no! Not again'

Mike
raw to gardening ;-) My thoughts? Cover it in concrete, paint it green and
sweep as required, = the perfect lawn and as far as cats are concerned.
"Skin. Eat" they taste like Rabbit.

Now watch ;-)))))

Mike

On 6/5/05 3:49 pm, in article ,
"ClarissaGG" wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
On 6/5/05 3:22 pm, in article ,
"ClarissaGG" wrote:

I wonder if someone can advise me please?

Depending on how large the area is, is it feasible to have the pond and
beds
and then pave the rest?

Well we could, but there's already a gravel drive alongside the garden so it
would be nice to have some more greenery.

You could still have that in pots and tubs, half-barrels, raised brick
planters, old sinks, stone troughs etc. Or you could clear certain areas of
stones, feed those bits of the soil and do 'pocket planting' in among the
paving. Some of the lower growing herbs are beautiful when done this way
because as you walk past them and brush against them they release their
scents. As the ground is stony it may well be that it's sharply drained so
depending on where you live (which it would help us to know) you could grow
things like the many varieties of Salvias or have a low Rosemary hedge up
the side of your drive. Think of this as an opportunity and not a problem
and just think - no grass mowing! Yes, I know - I'm a very unconvincing
Pollyanna!
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "ClarissaGG" contains these words:


Trouble is, now that the matted grass and weeds have been removed, I see
that the soil is incredibly stony.
__________________________
We used to reseed on a regular basis~ by the acre. The soil was
exceptionally stony but these were only ever removed if they unseated the
tractor driver or tripped up the horse!! Stones are better than a fertiliser
in that they retain moisture beneath them and provide sites for worms.
After cultivation and seeding a gentle rolling simply pushed the stones
beneath first cut level. After a few weeks the action of worms covered every
stone. At three years the turf could be stripped at 2" with not a single
stone involved~only the finest soil.
Archaeologists have to dig deeply for ancient remains~~ If stones rose
to the surface they would need ladders!
If we did ever have to cultivate deeply, then stones were a problem for
surface crops that needed to be weeded and women were employed at one or two
pence per hour to remove them and build up the banks.~~ So my father told
me!!
Best Wishes Brian.

"Brian" --- 'flayb' to respond wrote in message
...

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "ClarissaGG" contains these words:


Trouble is, now that the matted grass and weeds have been removed, I
see
that the soil is incredibly stony.
__________________________
We used to reseed on a regular basis~ by the acre. The soil was
exceptionally stony but these were only ever removed if they unseated the
tractor driver or tripped up the horse!! Stones are better than a
fertiliser
in that they retain moisture beneath them and provide sites for worms.
After cultivation and seeding a gentle rolling simply pushed the
stones
beneath first cut level. After a few weeks the action of worms covered
every
stone. At three years the turf could be stripped at 2" with not a single
stone involved~only the finest soil.
Archaeologists have to dig deeply for ancient remains~~ If stones
rose
to the surface they would need ladders!
If we did ever have to cultivate deeply, then stones were a problem
for
surface crops that needed to be weeded and women were employed at one or
two
pence per hour to remove them and build up the banks.~~ So my father told
me!!
Best Wishes Brian.


Wow, lots of diverse opinion. I'm being thrown from gloom to relief then
back again.

I can't see any possibility of removing the stones, to be honest. It's a
pretty big area and we don't have anyone to help us. I can envisage raking a
few barrow loads off, but I can't imagine us doing this indefinitely because
the weeds are going to start coming up, and then we'll be back where we
started.

On 6/5/05 6:50 pm, in article ,
"Janet Baraclough" wrote:

The message
from Sacha contains these words:

Yes, I know - I'm a very unconvincing Pollyanna!

Break a leg, Sacha. I reckon that film marked me for life :-)

:-)

Janet.

I feel a sad lack of freckles, though - time to plant another Clematis
perhaps. ;-)
--

Sacha
(remove the weeds for email)

On 6/5/05 7:19 pm, in article ,
"ClarissaGG" wrote:


"Brian" --- 'flayb' to respond wrote in message
...

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "ClarissaGG" contains these words:


Trouble is, now that the matted grass and weeds have been removed, I
see
that the soil is incredibly stony.
__________________________
We used to reseed on a regular basis~ by the acre. The soil was
exceptionally stony but these were only ever removed if they unseated the
tractor driver or tripped up the horse!! Stones are better than a
fertiliser
in that they retain moisture beneath them and provide sites for worms.
After cultivation and seeding a gentle rolling simply pushed the
stones
beneath first cut level. After a few weeks the action of worms covered
every
stone. At three years the turf could be stripped at 2" with not a single
stone involved~only the finest soil.
Archaeologists have to dig deeply for ancient remains~~ If stones
rose
to the surface they would need ladders!
If we did ever have to cultivate deeply, then stones were a problem
for
surface crops that needed to be weeded and women were employed at one or
two
pence per hour to remove them and build up the banks.~~ So my father told
me!!
Best Wishes Brian.


Wow, lots of diverse opinion. I'm being thrown from gloom to relief then
back again.

I can't see any possibility of removing the stones, to be honest. It's a
pretty big area and we don't have anyone to help us. I can envisage raking a
few barrow loads off, but I can't imagine us doing this indefinitely because
the weeds are going to start coming up, and then we'll be back where we
started.

So give up on having a lawn - it's a waste of space for many people, quite
literally. They mow, feed, water, weed and pray to the damn thing and
rarely, if ever, use it! If you're not burning to run barefoot through the
dewy grass - stubbing your toes as you go on your stones - and don't wish to
sunbathe in the nuddy hidden by an artfully overgrown patch, why bother with
it? You say your drive runs alongside it, so I'm guessing that it's a front
lawn, possibly overlooked by neighbours, visitors to your house, or passers
by, so you're probably not going to use it for sitting on much, either. Pah
to it! ;-)
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)