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Old 16-02-2003, 12:07 AM
Warwick
 
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Default Sycamore by any other name

While in Japan on holiday in October, I wandered under some of the micer
looking Acers and picked up seeds.

These have been subjected to the British winter as experienced by a seed
sitting in a car glove compartment since.

I'm thinking that it'll be soon time to subject them to the warmer
climes of the greenhouse.

Any suggestions?

Warwick

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Old 16-02-2003, 08:14 AM
Janet Galpin and Oliver Patterson
 
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The message [email protected]
from Warwick contains these words:

While in Japan on holiday in October, I wandered under some of the micer
looking Acers and picked up seeds.


These have been subjected to the British winter as experienced by a seed
sitting in a car glove compartment since.


I'm thinking that it'll be soon time to subject them to the warmer
climes of the greenhouse.


Any suggestions?


Warwick



The period in your glove compartment won't have given your seeds the
experience they need if they were dry. The cold period needed by most -
but not all- Acers has to be in some kind of damp medium: a bit of
compost, a damp kitchen towel, etc.

Janet G
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Old 16-02-2003, 09:30 AM
Martin Brown
 
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Warwick wrote:

While in Japan on holiday in October, I wandered under some of the micer
looking Acers and picked up seeds.

These have been subjected to the British winter as experienced by a seed
sitting in a car glove compartment since.


That probably won't do it. They need to be wet, cold and frozen in soil to
break down the germination inhibitors.

I'm thinking that it'll be soon time to subject them to the warmer
climes of the greenhouse.

Any suggestions?


Stick some in soil now and put them outside to get some freeze thaw action
and rained on. There is still time to do it naturally - otherwise you may
need to stratify them in the fridge. Perhaps try both methods. Natural is
rather uncontrolled and uncontrollable. Unlike common sycamores exotic acers
are a bit more picky about germinating. You should be able to do it. Don't
let them dry out too much once they start coming up. Small seedling trees
tend to be vulnerable to drought (and to over watering).

Regards,
Martin Brown




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Old 16-02-2003, 02:58 PM
Essjay001
 
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Warwick scribbled:

While in Japan on holiday in October, I wandered under some of the
micer looking Acers and picked up seeds.

These have been subjected to the British winter as experienced by a
seed sitting in a car glove compartment since.

I'm thinking that it'll be soon time to subject them to the warmer
climes of the greenhouse.

Any suggestions?


Yes burn them it is not clever and probably illegal to plant non native
species that have not been properly certified. You have no idea if they are
disease free, you could be planting a time bomb. Remember a time whem this
country was covered in Elm Trees!

Did you ask the owners if you could take them if not you could be guilty of
theft!


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Old 16-02-2003, 06:03 PM
Nick Maclaren
 
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In article ,
Essjay001 wrote:
Warwick scribbled:

While in Japan on holiday in October, I wandered under some of the
micer looking Acers and picked up seeds.

These have been subjected to the British winter as experienced by a
seed sitting in a car glove compartment since.

I'm thinking that it'll be soon time to subject them to the warmer
climes of the greenhouse.

Any suggestions?


Yes burn them it is not clever and probably illegal to plant non native
species that have not been properly certified. You have no idea if they are
disease free, you could be planting a time bomb. Remember a time whem this
country was covered in Elm Trees!

Did you ask the owners if you could take them if not you could be guilty of
theft!


Oh, nonsense!

As with almost all such diseases, Dutch elm disease was introduced
by the COMMERCIAL import of logs, largely because the phytosanitary
regulations that are used to hassle private individuals are not
applied to the commercial import of goods for non horticultural
purposes.

Secondly, introducing diseases by means of seeds is VERY rare, and
it is more likely that you will do so by the mud on your shoes.
Are you saying that all clothing should be burnt on leaving a country,
and all air passengers should travel naked? It makes sense ....

And, lastly, your sort of attitude is enough to convert me to the
viewpoint of the "Property is theft" brigade. In most countries,
such actions are NOT theft or have only recently been made so by
stealing the rights from the public.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren,
University of Cambridge Computing Service,
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England.
Email:
Tel.: +44 1223 334761 Fax: +44 1223 334679


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Old 16-02-2003, 11:26 PM
Warwick
 
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Default Sycamore by any other name

In article ,
says...
Warwick scribbled:

While in Japan on holiday in October, I wandered under some of the
micer looking Acers and picked up seeds.

These have been subjected to the British winter as experienced by a
seed sitting in a car glove compartment since.

I'm thinking that it'll be soon time to subject them to the warmer
climes of the greenhouse.

Any suggestions?


Yes burn them it is not clever and probably illegal to plant non native
species that have not been properly certified. You have no idea if they are
disease free, you could be planting a time bomb. Remember a time whem this
country was covered in Elm Trees!


Ah yes, and the Acer Palmatum Japonica that thrive and perform the task
of being lovely specimens in gardens throughout the country should all
be dug out at the same time? These are Acer Palmatum Japonica Garnet,
bloodgood and a couple of others that I didn't know the precise species
of. Are you aware of what an Acer is?


Did you ask the owners if you could take them if not you could be guilty of
theft!


I don't know the Japanese for "Can you tell me the name of the owner of
this mountain so I can ask if I can take this handful of seeds off it.".
Do you? It's a fecking *seed*. It fell off a small tree on a mountain.
It is a known plant/tree type and they're grown, sold and imported into
the UK by the million every year.

---


A sig seperator is "-- " not "---"

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.


Is News also checked? Since most of the AV products I've seen can't
catch traffic on port 119 unless they're dedicated to the task.


Warwick - hostile me?
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Old 16-02-2003, 11:36 PM
Warwick
 
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Default Sycamore by any other name

In article ,
says...


Warwick wrote:

While in Japan on holiday in October, I wandered under some of the micer
looking Acers and picked up seeds.


That probably won't do it. They need to be wet, cold and frozen in soil to
break down the germination inhibitors.

Any suggestions?


Stick some in soil now and put them outside to get some freeze thaw action
and rained on. There is still time to do it naturally - otherwise you may
need to stratify them in the fridge. Perhaps try both methods. Natural is
rather uncontrolled and uncontrollable. Unlike common sycamores exotic acers
are a bit more picky about germinating. You should be able to do it. Don't
let them dry out too much once they start coming up. Small seedling trees
tend to be vulnerable to drought (and to over watering).


I'll give that a try. I have just enough seeds to split things out three
ways and use the freezer for short periods too in a nice cozy bag of
damp compost to prevent them getting down as cold as it was half way up
Fuji.

I'd completely forgotten about the Japanese winter being that bit colder
than ours. I'll give them a short winter and see if anything comes of
it. There's a place in the garden plan where a couple of small Acer
Japonica will fit well once we've removed the logs that were the
leylandii. I know these won't really be up to filling that hole for a
few years if they do take. I'm just doing it for the opportunity to say
to the kids in a few years time "That is a Japanese Maple grown from
seeds brought from Japan.. now eat your Udon and like it!".

Warwick


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Old 17-02-2003, 07:18 PM
Stewart Robert Hinsley
 
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In article , Essjay001
writes

Yes burn them it is not clever and probably illegal to plant non native
species that have not been properly certified. You have no idea if they are
disease free, you could be planting a time bomb. Remember a time whem this
country was covered in Elm Trees!

The following DEFRA page is not crystal clear, but states that the
import of most (flower) seeds is unrestricted.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/planth/travel.htm
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley


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Old 17-02-2003, 09:32 PM
Essjay001
 
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Nick Maclaren scribbled:


Yes burn them it is not clever and probably illegal to plant non
native species that have not been properly certified. You have no
idea if they are disease free, you could be planting a time bomb.
Remember a time whem this country was covered in Elm Trees!

Did you ask the owners if you could take them if not you could be
guilty of theft!


Oh, nonsense!


You're entitled to your opinion as am I.

As with almost all such diseases, Dutch elm disease was introduced
by the COMMERCIAL import of logs, largely because the phytosanitary
regulations that are used to hassle private individuals are not
applied to the commercial import of goods for non horticultural
purposes.


I quoted the Elm as an example of what can happen when things get out of
hand.


Secondly, introducing diseases by means of seeds is VERY rare,


But not uknown!

and
it is more likely that you will do so by the mud on your shoes.
Are you saying that all clothing should be burnt on leaving a country,
and all air passengers should travel naked? It makes sense ....


Well yes it does, but with the vast majority of the world not being happy
with what God gave us all in the way of form there would be a vast outcry
against such an idea.


And, lastly, your sort of attitude is enough to convert me to the
viewpoint of the "Property is theft" brigade. In most countries,
such actions are NOT theft or have only recently been made so by
stealing the rights from the public.


I was just trying to make a point. Technically this action was theft. Unless
he has intention of returning the seeds from whence they came.



Regards,
Nick Maclaren,
University of Cambridge Computing Service,
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England.
Email:
Tel.: +44 1223 334761 Fax: +44 1223 334679



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 30/12/2002


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Old 17-02-2003, 09:35 PM
Essjay001
 
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Default Sycamore by any other name

Warwick scribbled:


Ah yes, and the Acer Palmatum Japonica that thrive and perform the
task of being lovely specimens in gardens throughout the country
should all be dug out at the same time? These are Acer Palmatum
Japonica Garnet, bloodgood and a couple of others that I didn't know
the precise species of.

Don't be daft!


Are you aware of what an Acer is?

Now you are offensive



Did you ask the owners if you could take them if not you could be
guilty of theft!


I don't know the Japanese for "Can you tell me the name of the owner
of this mountain so I can ask if I can take this handful of seeds off
it.". Do you? It's a fecking *seed*. It fell off a small tree on a
mountain. It is a known plant/tree type and they're grown, sold and
imported into the UK by the million every year.


That ain't the point.

Steve R


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 30/12/2002


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Old 17-02-2003, 09:36 PM
Essjay001
 
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Xref: 127.0.0.1 uk.rec.gardening:166195

Martin Brown scribbled:


Wild ones from seed are not that precise. You can get down to a few
species A. palmatum and A. japonicum being among the most likely but
A. miyabei and A. nikoense are also possibilities.


All the more reason to destroy them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


If you want anything more precise you have to buy named cultivars.
Chilterns and others offer seeds.

Regards,
Martin Brown



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Old 17-02-2003, 09:44 PM
Essjay001
 
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Stewart Robert Hinsley scribbled:

The following DEFRA page is not crystal clear, but states that the
import of most (flower) seeds is unrestricted.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/planth/travel.htm


No it doesn't. It is quite clear.


Travellers! Plants brought back from abroad could carry serious pests and
diseases
In order to safeguard plant health in Britain, there are statutory controls
on importing plants and plant products (such as flowers and fruits) into
this country. Full details are obtainable from the Plant Health Division of
the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (see contact details
below).


Broadly speaking, plants and plant products are divided into one of the
following categories, according to their risk of spreading plant pests and
diseases:


Prohibited - These pose such a serious risk that you must not import them.
Many species of rooted plants from outside Europe fall into this category.

Unrestricted - These present little or no risk and you do not have to comply
with any plant health controls if you wish to import them. This category
includes nearly all flower seeds, most cut flowers and most vegetables for
eating (except potatoes).

Controlled - These must normally be certified as healthy by the plant
protection service of the exporting country. Rooted plants which are not
prohibited and most fruits come into this category. It also includes
sunflower seeds and cut flowers of chrysanthemum, carnation and geranium
imported from outside the European Community. There are, however,
concessions for travellers which allow you to bring small quantities of
controlled plant material into Britain without certificates providing they
a

in your personal baggage
intended for your own use and not intended for use in the course of trade or
business
free from signs of pests and diseases
Providing these conditions are satisfied, you may import plants and/or plant
products up to the limits set out below. These vary according to the part of
the world from which you are travelling.



European Community (EC) countries - These are Austria, Belgium, Denmark,
Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Luxembourg, The Netherlands,
Portugal (including Madeira), Sweden, the Republic of Ireland and Spain (but
not the Canary Islands).

You may bring back any plant material, providing it was grown in the EC.


Non-EC countries in the Euro-Mediterranean area - These include Algeria, the
Canary Islands, Cyprus, Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Libya, Malta,
Morocco, Norway, Switzerland, Syria, Tunisia and Turkey.

You may bring back no more than:

five plants and
2 kg of bulbs, corms, tubers (but not potatoes) and rhizomes and
2 kg of fruit and
cut flowers and foliage together forming a single bouquet and
five retail packets of seeds (but not seeds of potatoes)

Any other countries
You may bring back no more than:

2 kg of fruit and
cut flowers and foliage together forming a single bouquet and
five retail packets of seeds (but not seeds of potatoes)
If you wish to import more than these amounts, you will require
phytosanitary (i.e. plant health) certificates issued by the plant
protection service of the exporting country.

Remember
HM Customs and Excise will confiscate plants and plant produce which
contravene the controls outlined above


Now what part of that didn't you understand

Steve R



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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 30/12/2002


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Old 18-02-2003, 09:29 AM
Nick Maclaren
 
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In article ,
Essjay001 wrote:
Stewart Robert Hinsley scribbled:

The following DEFRA page is not crystal clear, but states that the
import of most (flower) seeds is unrestricted.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/planth/travel.htm


No it doesn't. It is quite clear.


The one thing that is quite clear is that the intent of the regulation
has nothing whatsoever to do with protecting this country against
diseases being imported. As with all such regulations, they make no
scientific sense, especially when seen in the context of the equivalent
(or sometimes absent) regulations for commercial import.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren,
University of Cambridge Computing Service,
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England.
Email:
Tel.: +44 1223 334761 Fax: +44 1223 334679


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