|
A Climate FAQ
|
A Climate FAQ
|
A Climate FAQ
Nick Maclaren wrote:
Having been prodded once too often by this, here is a draft of a climate FAQ (including remarks about USDA zones). Comments welcome. This FAQ is dedicated to all of uk.rec.gardening's fans, both in the USA and UK, who have difficulty in understanding how the other's climate can be so different. Q: Well, why are they so different? A: The first and main reason is that the USA has a strongly continental temperate climate, excluding Hawaii, the Gulf of Mexico coast and the Pacific North West (including the southern Alaskan coast), and the UK a strongly maritime temperate one. Q: But the USA has lots of coastline! Isn't that maritime? A: No. In a coastal continental climate, the marine influence extends very little inland (often only a mile or two). Cambridge has as close to a continental climate as anywhere in the UK, is 70 miles from the nearest coast, and is still has a strongly maritime climate. Reference to Cambridge seems 'strangely self centered' ;-) I would have thought that Milton Keynes has a stronger case to claim "as close to a continental climate as anywhere in the UK". -- ned |
A Climate FAQ
In article ,
ned wrote: Reference to Cambridge seems 'strangely self centered' ;-) I would have thought that Milton Keynes has a stronger case to claim "as close to a continental climate as anywhere in the UK". Most of my maps don't show Milton Keynes :-) Yes, I will clarify; a better description would be Bedfordshire .... Regards, Nick. |
A Climate FAQ
"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message ... Having been prodded once too often by this, here is a draft of a climate FAQ (including remarks about USDA zones). Comments welcome. wow! Only half way through and I've got brain ache! Great job, nick. only immediate comment is to agree that numbering might be useful? pk |
A Climate FAQ
|
A Climate FAQ
"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message ... Having been prodded once too often by this, here is a draft of a climate FAQ (including remarks about USDA zones). Comments welcome. Thanks Nick, Lots of good info and explanations. Better go and think again about some of the things I put in the Chiltern seeds order that I'm about to send ;~((( No measurable rain for nearly a month and this place is sodden. Rod |
A Climate FAQ
In article ,
Rod wrote: No measurable rain for nearly a month and this place is sodden. Aren't UK winters miserable? Regards, Nick Maclaren, University of Cambridge Computing Service, New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email: Tel.: +44 1223 334761 Fax: +44 1223 334679 |
A Climate FAQ
Nick Maclaren wrote:
Having been prodded once too often by this, here is a draft of a climate FAQ (including remarks about USDA zones). Comments welcome. Hi Nick! Well - having been prodded by some of my UK gardening friends - I don't agree with everything you say (you didn't think I would, did you? :-)) But overall - most of your FAQ is very true and useful, really. But - you said "Comments welcome". I will hold you to that. OK, Nick, before point it out, who am I to comment? It's true that I'm not living in the UK permanently - but I spend lots of time in the UK every year, I have very many gardening friends over there, and (sorry if I may sound arrogant) I think I know practically every important public garden between Tresco Abbey and Inverewe. And I have a very good idea of the plants that are grown there, and their growing conditions. How many of you can say that? Now, there is just one basic point of yours that did raise my eyebrows: Q: Are they relevant to the UK? A: (snip) And, of course, the USDA ratings of plants are the USDA zone at which they will grow, when grown in the USA. What on earth has given you that idea? The USDA Z* zones (as given in all recent UK plant dictionaries/encyclopedias) have nothing to do whatever with the US situation. They just indicate average yearly minimum temperatures (and, as has been said before, in my opinion they just relate to the natural habitat of the plants). And, Nick, I wonder if we have not been talking on the basis of some misunderstanding, all along. For example, you say: There are also plants (e.g. Albizia julibrissin, Daphne genkwa) that abosolutely must have enough summer heat to ripen their year's growth to survive the winter. These are rated at USDA zones 6b and 5b, but are seriously tender in the UK. Where in heaven did you get those ratings? Albizia julibrissin, just to follow your specific example, is rated in all of my recent UK books as Z7 - not at all Z6 or Z5 (and, by the way, I have seen nice specimens in many places in the UK - as was to be expected). So, I certainly would like to know your sources. Now - just a last basic point. More and more, I am getting the inpression that the reactions in this newsgroup against the USDA zone system are "just out of principle" - and hardly anyone has tested it out for himself. Am I right? If I'm wrong - could you give some specific examples please? (I mean Z7 plants that were killed by frost this winter - not the mildest one?) I think it might be an interesting discussion. But not for me - I'm signing off. Regards, Roger. |
A Climate FAQ
The message
from Roger Van Loon contains these words: (sorry if I may sound arrogant) I think I know practically every important public garden between Tresco Abbey and Inverewe. And I have a very good idea of the plants that are grown there, and their growing conditions. How many of you can say that? Me for one. The words prick and bubble come to mind. Janet. |
A Climate FAQ
In article ,
Roger Van Loon wrote: Nick Maclaren wrote: Having been prodded once too often by this, here is a draft of a climate FAQ (including remarks about USDA zones). Comments welcome. Hi Nick! Well - having been prodded by some of my UK gardening friends - I don't agree with everything you say (you didn't think I would, did you? :-)) But overall - most of your FAQ is very true and useful, really. Thank you. But - you said "Comments welcome". I will hold you to that. OK, Nick, before point it out, who am I to comment? It's true that I'm not living in the UK permanently - but I spend lots of time in the UK every year, I have very many gardening friends over there, and (sorry if I may sound arrogant) I think I know practically every important public garden between Tresco Abbey and Inverewe. And I have a very good idea of the plants that are grown there, and their growing conditions. How many of you can say that? Probably not many. Now, there is just one basic point of yours that did raise my eyebrows: Q: Are they relevant to the UK? A: (snip) And, of course, the USDA ratings of plants are the USDA zone at which they will grow, when grown in the USA. What on earth has given you that idea? The USDA Z* zones (as given in all recent UK plant dictionaries/encyclopedias) have nothing to do whatever with the US situation. They just indicate average yearly minimum temperatures (and, as has been said before, in my opinion they just relate to the natural habitat of the plants). Roger, PLEASE read my postings before responding! In the above, I said "the USDA ratings of plants". A plant doesn't HAVE an average yearly minimum temperature. What I said was and is correct. And, Nick, I wonder if we have not been talking on the basis of some misunderstanding, all along. For example, you say: There are also plants (e.g. Albizia julibrissin, Daphne genkwa) that abosolutely must have enough summer heat to ripen their year's growth to survive the winter. These are rated at USDA zones 6b and 5b, but are seriously tender in the UK. Where in heaven did you get those ratings? Albizia julibrissin, just to follow your specific example, is rated in all of my recent UK books as Z7 - not at all Z6 or Z5 (and, by the way, I have seen nice specimens in many places in the UK - as was to be expected). So, I certainly would like to know your sources. If you look on the Web, almost all references to Albizia julibrissin are hardy in zone 6 - I was being conservative with zone 6b. Bean describes it as not hardy in the open at Kew, the RHS Encyclopaedia describes it as half hardy, I have grown it for 2 years and it has suffered badly both winters (as the summers have not been hot) and it may not recover this year. Maybe your books have fudged its USA rating a bit to hide the USA/UK differences? I was referring to Daphne genkwa as zone 5b. Now - just a last basic point. More and more, I am getting the inpression that the reactions in this newsgroup against the USDA zone system are "just out of principle" - and hardly anyone has tested it out for himself. Am I right? No, you are left. If I'm wrong - could you give some specific examples please? (I mean Z7 plants that were killed by frost this winter - not the mildest one?) I think it might be an interesting discussion. But not for me - I'm signing off. Then why ask? But, for anyone else that is interested, I can witness the delicacy of Passiflora incarnata, Albizia julibrissin and a large number of USDA zone 7 plants. I tend to use the Sunset book myself, when referring to USA conditions, but even that needs a fair amount of interpretation. Regards, Nick Maclaren, University of Cambridge Computing Service, New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email: Tel.: +44 1223 334761 Fax: +44 1223 334679 |
A Climate FAQ
Nick Maclaren wrote: I tend to use the Sunset book myself, when referring to USA conditions, but even that needs a fair amount of interpretation. I reckon the Sunset Western Climate Zones deserve a favourable mention in the FAQ. They are more nearly applicable here than USDA zone (minimum winter temperature only). And also perhaps include a list of other regions with broadly comparable approximately temperate maritime climates (if a bit warmer). eg New Zealand, parts of Pacific NW, Channel Islands I see nothing wrong with specifying minimum tolerable winter temperature for a plant in degrees Celsius. (that clarifies what is being stated) USDA Zones sound plausible but are misleading in the UK. It usually isn't the fairly modest UK minimum temperatures that kills things so much as the long drawn out sunless grey cold misty days that let moulds and fungi attack weak immature and unripe wood on tender plants. Regards, Martin Brown |
A Climate FAQ
In article , Martin Brown writes: | Nick Maclaren wrote: | | I tend to use the Sunset book myself, when referring to USA conditions, | but even that needs a fair amount of interpretation. | | I reckon the Sunset Western Climate Zones deserve a favourable mention in | the FAQ. | They are more nearly applicable here than USDA zone (minimum winter | temperature only). A good point. I will do that. | And also perhaps include a list of other regions with broadly comparable | approximately temperate maritime climates (if a bit warmer). eg New | Zealand, parts of Pacific NW, Channel Islands And another. | I see nothing wrong with specifying minimum tolerable winter temperature | for a plant in degrees Celsius. | (that clarifies what is being stated) USDA Zones sound plausible but are | misleading in the UK. Quite. | It usually isn't the fairly modest UK minimum temperatures that kills | things so much as the long drawn out sunless grey cold misty days that let | moulds and fungi attack weak immature and unripe wood on tender plants. Agreed - as is quite obvious from my postings and the FAQ! Regards, Nick Maclaren, University of Cambridge Computing Service, New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email: Tel.: +44 1223 334761 Fax: +44 1223 334679 |
A Climate FAQ
|
Quote:
|
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:48 PM. |
|
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
GardenBanter