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Old 04-03-2003, 12:30 PM
Annabel
 
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Default Frog, toad and newt spawn

A little OT I know but does anyone know where I can get frog, toad or
newt spawn from.

Bell




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Old 04-03-2003, 05:05 PM
Rob Henning
 
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Default Frog, toad and newt spawn

Well you can't take them from the wild,is it not now unlawful?,
but you are welcome to fish some out of my pond I have tons of the stuff!

"Annabel" wrote in message
...
A little OT I know but does anyone know where I can get frog, toad or
newt spawn from.

Bell





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Old 04-03-2003, 08:07 PM
ned
 
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Rob Henning wrote:
Well you can't take them from the wild,is it not now unlawful?,
but you are welcome to fish some out of my pond I have tons of the
stuff!


It's not even recommended to shift it from one private location to
another - for fear of spreading froggy disease (red leg disease, etc)
from one area to another. Of course one could argue that moving some
from next door's pond can't do much harm. But the question to be asked
is, why didn't the frogs choose your pond in the first place?
Maybe the water chemistry isn't to their liking. Maybe there is a lack
of food. Get the pond right and they will find you.
If the pond is not right, then dragging spawn in by the bucketful is
no guarantee that it will be successful.
Have a look at
http://www.froglife.org/

--
ned


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Old 04-03-2003, 11:07 PM
Annabel
 
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Default Frog, toad and newt spawn

.. But the question to be asked
is, why didn't the frogs choose your pond in the first place?
Maybe the water chemistry isn't to their liking. Maybe there is a lack
of food. Get the pond right and they will find you.
If the pond is not right, then dragging spawn in by the bucketful is
no guarantee that it will be successful.



Its more likely to be that there are no amphibians close enough to find
the pond. This AIUI is a major problem.

Bell




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Old 06-03-2003, 07:59 PM
Annabel
 
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Default Frog, toad and newt spawn


It's not even recommended to shift it from one private location to
another - for fear of spreading froggy disease (red leg disease, etc)
from one area to another. .
Have a look at
http://www.froglife.org/

--
ned


Having read the site you refer to the disease problem only affects
frogs, if a pond is over 1 kilometre away from a frog population then
they probably wont reach the pond and its perfectly OK to obtain spawn
from private gardens (although the amphibians are not pets).

What concerns me is that if a pond is isolated and spawn introduced,
then a resultant population will genetically inbred. To overcome this
spawn should be introduced from many genetically different sources, but
how many sources would be needed?

Bell





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Old 06-03-2003, 11:35 PM
ned
 
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Default Frog, toad and newt spawn

Annabel wrote:
It's not even recommended to shift it from one private location to
another - for fear of spreading froggy disease (red leg disease,
etc) from one area to another. .
Have a look at
http://www.froglife.org/

--
ned


Having read the site you refer to the disease problem only affects
frogs,


.......... Yes, I think I acknowledged that. :-)

if a pond is over 1 kilometre away from a frog population
then they probably wont reach the pond


.............. I know not what your location is but, can you be certain
that there are no other populations within a 1Km radius?

and its perfectly OK to
obtain spawn from private gardens (although the amphibians are not
pets).


............. provided these populations are not contaminated.

What concerns me is that if a pond is isolated and spawn introduced,
then a resultant population will genetically inbred. To overcome
this spawn should be introduced from many genetically different
sources, but how many sources would be needed?


................ The more sources you obtain from, the greater the
chances of bringing in something unwanted.

Bell, you asked for advice. It is entirely up to you whether you
accept my viewpoint or choose to ignore it. My outlook is that Mother
Nature seems to cope pretty well on her own without the 'good
intentioned' meddling of us humans who keep trying to impose our ideas
on her. I am fortunate that She has populated my garden with a huge
diversity of species - more than enough to occupy my attention without
me deliberately shipping in something from a foreign field.

Whatever you do, enjoy your garden. ;-)

--
ned



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Old 07-03-2003, 10:34 AM
A.Malhotra
 
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Default Frog, toad and newt spawn



Annabel wrote:

What concerns me is that if a pond is isolated and spawn introduced,
then a resultant population will genetically inbred. To overcome this
spawn should be introduced from many genetically different sources, but
how many sources would be needed?



The inbreeding problem will apply if "your" population is established from
only a few "founder" individuals. It is not necessary to mix individuals
from different sources to ensure adequate genetic variability, just to make
sure that enough variation from the source population has been introduced.
A clump of frog spawn pretty much corresponds to a single female's output
so if you introduce several clumps you will already have some variation. In
the subsequent few years, you will want to add more spawn since it will
take any froglets from the first lot 2-3 years to mature and start
breeding. During this time, you are likly to have built up quite a lot of
variation. Of course, this assumes that the source you get them from is not
inbred itself!

Inbreeding is often less of a problem for many animals than people seem to
think it is. Garden ponds are becoming an increasingly important resource
for amphibians and personally I think it would be unwise to let the
problems with disease etc deter people from establishing new populations.
At the same time, spreading disease is a serious concern so you should do
it in the most responsible way. I would suggest contacting your local
herpetological group (a list can be found on the froglife website) and
asking their advice. They should be aware of the presence of disease in the
area, and be able to possible sources of spawn.

You also mentioned newt and toad spawn. Toad spawn is much more difficult
to move becuase it gets produced in long strings that are wrapped around
pond vegetation, and toads geenerally prefer large ponds with deeper water
and so are less suited to garden ponds anyway. Newts lay their eggs singly
on marginal broad-leaved vegetation, starting a bit later in the spring
(May is a good time to look around here in North Wales, don't know about
your area). Make sure you know the difference between great crested newt
eggs and the eggs of the other species because you would be breaking the
law to take great crested newt eggs. We established palmate newts in our
pond by putting in adults that were being evicted from a friend's pond when
he was renovating it. They've been in there all year now (inlcuding over
the winter) and there are quite a few newt larvae around too.
Anita
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Old 08-03-2003, 11:08 AM
Annabel
 
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Default Frog, toad and newt spawn


"ned" wrote in message
...
Annabel wrote:
It's not even recommended to shift it from one private location to
another - for fear of spreading froggy disease (red leg disease,
etc) from one area to another. .
Have a look at
http://www.froglife.org/

--
ned


Having read the site you refer to the disease problem only affects
frogs,


......... Yes, I think I acknowledged that. :-)

if a pond is over 1 kilometre away from a frog population
then they probably wont reach the pond


............. I know not what your location is but, can you be certain
that there are no other populations within a 1Km radius?

and its perfectly OK to
obtain spawn from private gardens (although the amphibians are not
pets).


............ provided these populations are not contaminated.

What concerns me is that if a pond is isolated and spawn introduced,
then a resultant population will genetically inbred. To overcome
this spawn should be introduced from many genetically different
sources, but how many sources would be needed?


............... The more sources you obtain from, the greater the
chances of bringing in something unwanted.

Bell, you asked for advice. It is entirely up to you whether you
accept my viewpoint or choose to ignore it. My outlook is that Mother
Nature seems to cope pretty well on her own without the 'good
intentioned' meddling of us humans who keep trying to impose our ideas
on her. I am fortunate that She has populated my garden with a huge
diversity of species - more than enough to occupy my attention without
me deliberately shipping in something from a foreign field.

Whatever you do, enjoy your garden. ;-)

--



ned..
I sense hostility. It is not my intention to disregard the help you
gave, I was very pleased for the link which I have now book marked (I
had searched the web and not found it), I was merely making further
enquires.
I agree that mother nature does a very good job but I thought our native
amphibians needed a little help and Mother Nature isn't bothered about
individual species as can be observed by the many extinct species (that
is those not exterminated by us).
Also as you say that Mother Nature does such a good job do you suggest
that us meddling humans should not impose to the extent of not
weeding,mowing,planting plants etc,,,of course not, its all a question
of where one draws the line.
This is once again said in the heart of amiable discussion.
Once again sorry if I have offended you.

Annabel



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Old 08-03-2003, 05:45 PM
ned
 
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Default Frog, toad and newt spawn

Annabel wrote:
"ned" wrote in message
...

big snip

Whatever you do, enjoy your garden. ;-)


ned..
I sense hostility.

another snip
Once again sorry if I have offended you.


Oh no Annabel,
I took no offence. (witness the winking smiley above)
And 'intended no hostility either. 'Merely expressing my viewpoint.
I am long enough in the tooth to know that advice is something that is
freely given and can be just as freely accepted or rejected.
Heaven help any of us who had to accept every point of view expressed
on this ng. big wide grin

Again, whatever you do, enjoy your garden. ;-)
I wouldn't want my conscience burdened with the thought of you
constantly worrying about whether ned would approve or not. :-)

--
ned




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