Sick koi and need advice (with pics)
I have a koi with an unusual growth on its tail fin that looks like a
praying mantis egg sac. The fish also has hazy white areas on its body. On its back there is a large opaque oval and I noticed some smaller areas on its head. I first noticed issues with this fish in the spring of 2005 and put it into a holding container with another fish for several weeks as I dosed it with anti-bacterial and anti- fungal medicines. It didn't seem to get better but upon closer look it didn't seem like these white areas were disease, so I blew them off as possibly an ugly batch of scales. Now it's early 2007 and those white areas still exist and are possibly larger but not substantially. The growth on the tail is something I just noticed a few weeks ago and definitely is not healthy. I think another of those growths exists on the underside of the fish near the tail fin, but as you can imagine it's difficult to net and examine this fish close up. The end of the fin itself seems to be diseased, yet not in a way that would cause tearing. If I had to take a guess I'd say this fish is at least 18" long and is at least 2.5 years old and the other fish in the pond seem healthy. Here are links to some photos: The odd growth == http://s1974.home.comcast.net/sick_koi.JPG The white region == http://s1974.home.comcast.net/sick_koi2.JPG I have a feeling this isn't a bacterial infection, fungal disease, or parasite because those issues should have spread to the other fish in the 2 years that I've noticed odd health issues with this one. The only other thing I can think of would be some sort of fish cancer, but I'm not a vet so I have no clue. Any ideas on what's going on? If so, what do I do about it? |
Sick koi and need advice (with pics)
On 13 Feb 2007 18:17:37 -0800, "scs0" wrote:
Here are links to some photos: The odd growth == http://s1974.home.comcast.net/sick_koi.JPG The white region == http://s1974.home.comcast.net/sick_koi2.JPG Great shots! Pictures worth a 1000 words as they say. I'm thinking Lymphocystis... more commonly called Carp Pox or it could be columaris.... They can be contagious, but not easily. Usually, if Carp Pox they get better or go away when the season changes and the water warms up, only to come back in the fall. Do a search on those things and then decide your course of treatment. ~ jan -------------- See my ponds and filter design: www.jjspond.us ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
Sick koi and need advice (with pics)
"scs0" wrote in message ups.com... Any ideas on what's going on? If so, what do I do about it? =================================== Check this site: http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/...phocystis.html I had a beautiful deep yellow female diamond-scale butterfly koi with this disease. It looked exactly like what your fish has. She would appear cured at times but it always came back. She went to a farm stock pond rather than keep her with the other fish and possibly infect them. -- ZB.... Frugal ponding since 1995. rec.ponder since late 1996. My Pond & Aquarium Pages: http://tinyurl.com/9do58 Troll free pond and fish Forum: ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({* |
Sick koi and need advice (with pics)
Oh thats really good thinking there CArol. Push off yur sick or
diseased fish and put it in a farm pond out of sight out of mind and let who ever has the farm pond worry about their fish coming down with what ever the koi had if its communicable. At a minimum it should have been euthanized and not dumped in another body of water, but better yet, just like you told me, if you can not afford to take care of your fish properly you should not have any..........you do remember that statement don't you? Probably not, your suffering from yet another bout of selective memory recall when things don't agree with you. Yet your tract record of erroneous and bad advice predeeds you as usual. Looking at those pics my "Guess" is not worth a darn as I really d not have a clue. None of my info from the university of Florida eveh has anyhting like this listed, however its possible its an ulcer. Short of finding a bona fide answer, I would dab it with some potassium permanganate paste..Only do this one time, then apply some panalog or other antibiotic ointment, and cover it with denture powder. Yea sounds weird but if its an ulcer it will fix it. Let me send the pics to a "fish doc" I know here locally and see what he says. On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 20:47:39 -0600, Zëbulon wrote: "scs0" wrote in message egroups.com... Any ideas on what's going on? If so, what do I do about it? =================================== Check this site: http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/...phocystis.html I had a beautiful deep yellow female diamond-scale butterfly koi with this disease. It looked exactly like what your fish has. She would appear cured at times but it always came back. She went to a farm stock pond rather than keep her with the other fish and possibly infect them. ------- I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know! |
Sick koi and need advice (with pics)
"Tristan" wrote in message ... snip same old BS ========================== Who cares what you think when you tell people to break the law and shoot and kill protected water birds such as herons? -- ZB.... Frugal ponding since 1995. rec.ponder since late 1996. My Pond & Aquarium Pages: http://tinyurl.com/9do58 http://www.ganesha.org/ptb/hipcrime.html ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({* |
Sick koi and need advice (with pics)
Here is the skinny It has two possibilitys Koi herpes virus (KHV) / Carp Pox on that tail.....as for the whitish film on scales, it could be a thicker slime coat or it could be a poor section of scales but odds are its due to Koi herpes virus (KHV) White spots on scales as such can be a positive visual indicator for Koi Pox ....The fish is definately stressed as there is lots of red streaks in the tail which is a good indicator of stress or on set of a bacterial / viral infection. It would be good to have a complete set of water parameters . Koi POx or CArp POx can make fleshy warty growths on a fish as well but its not a fatal disease. If it is Koi Herpes (KHV) its required to be reported to the Dept of agriculture due to its seriousness. ONly one way to really tell and that is to have it checked and have a scope done and look for the herpes or pox virus..... Check out Universtiy of Florida in regards toKoi herpes virus (KHV) Info. KHV is contagious so a QT is best. Mortaility is high with KHV.... Certainly not smart to arbitraily toss in a farm pond as another stated as KHV is highly contagaious to other fish in that species be it fat head minnows or goldfish. On 13 Feb 2007 18:17:37 -0800, "scs0" wrote: I have a koi with an unusual growth on its tail fin that looks like a praying mantis egg sac. The fish also has hazy white areas on its body. On its back there is a large opaque oval and I noticed some smaller areas on its head. I first noticed issues with this fish in the spring of 2005 and put it into a holding container with another fish for several weeks as I dosed it with anti-bacterial and anti- fungal medicines. It didn't seem to get better but upon closer look it didn't seem like these white areas were disease, so I blew them off as possibly an ugly batch of scales. Now it's early 2007 and those white areas still exist and are possibly larger but not substantially. The growth on the tail is something I just noticed a few weeks ago and definitely is not healthy. I think another of those growths exists on the underside of the fish near the tail fin, but as you can imagine it's difficult to net and examine this fish close up. The end of the fin itself seems to be diseased, yet not in a way that would cause tearing. If I had to take a guess I'd say this fish is at least 18" long and is at least 2.5 years old and the other fish in the pond seem healthy. Here are links to some photos: The odd growth == http://s1974.home.comcast.net/sick_koi.JPG The white region == http://s1974.home.comcast.net/sick_koi2.JPG I have a feeling this isn't a bacterial infection, fungal disease, or parasite because those issues should have spread to the other fish in the 2 years that I've noticed odd health issues with this one. The only other thing I can think of would be some sort of fish cancer, but I'm not a vet so I have no clue. Any ideas on what's going on? If so, what do I do about it? ------- I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know! |
Sick koi and need advice (with pics)
Great day, how did we go from koi herpes Virus to herons.your a bona fide lunatic carol.......meltdown, meltdown, take action, lunatic on the loose! See, if we were on terms I would , show you my permit to harvest herons , oh hell I ain't even gonna discuss it with you as it matters not. What matters is finding an answer to this persons fish illness and your beligerant belly acheing is not helping him any now is it. So please go away and troll else where. But I think yur totally off the wall tossing a highly contagious sick fish into another persons pond and walking away from yur responsibility, and possibly be the cause of a massive outbreak. YOu got class CArol, real class, about as much class as the Nazi's did during WWII . Your also a class act....and a fool! On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 22:09:00 -0600, Zëbulon wrote: "Tristan" wrote in message m... snip same old BS ========================== Who cares what you think when you tell people to break the law and shoot and kill protected water birds such as herons? ------- I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know! |
Sick koi and need advice (with pics)
Zëbulon wrote:
Who cares what you think when you tell people to break the law and shoot and kill protected water birds such as herons? Shooting at herons is legal in the UK providing that the gun is licenced - I'm not sure if there is a need to get a special licence to shoot at herons but from what I've heard from someone who keeps a fishery in Scotland it does not appear to be....and the whole question of shooting herons has no relevance to the OP question about his sick fish. The dumping of Koi and Goldfish is illegal over here even if they are healthy.....the dumping of a diseased fish is even worse IMNSO and totally irresponsible... Gill |
Sick koi and need advice (with pics)
From what I've gathered my koi's problem may be:
Carp pox (aka Lymphocystis) Or Koi herpes I'm unclear on whether or not Carp Pox and Koi Herpes are different diseases or just the same name for the same thing. I don't want to kill the fish, but it certainly sounds like I should isolate this one. That's a bit of a pain considering the size these fish are getting to, but one thing I learned is that these bigger fish are much lazier and easier to catch than the impossible-to-catch younger ones. I definitely don't want to contact the Department of Agriculture. Government and environmental issues are a scary thing to mix and I've heard the horror stories. I'd probably end up with 100 euthanized koi and a demolished pond. I'll be lucky if they don't find a way to condemn my property altogether! I would like to get out of this without the death of this fish. I've never really liked its color patterns too much but that's a mean reason to settle for its euthanization! Don't worry; the last thing I'll do is release this fish into the wild or any other body of water for that matter. |
Sick koi and need advice (with pics)
"Gill Passman" wrote in message ... Zëbulon wrote: Who cares what you think when you tell people to break the law and shoot and kill protected water birds such as herons? Shooting at herons is legal in the UK....... The person who recommend the illegal killing of the birds lives in the USA, not the UK. The country was not specified by Roy "Tristan" Hauer. providing that the gun is licenced - I'm not sure if there is a need to get a special licence to shoot at herons but from what I've heard from someone who keeps a fishery in Scotland it does not appear to be....and the whole question of shooting herons has no relevance to the OP question about his sick fish. Nor did the insulting TROLL post have any relevance to anthing to do with ponds or fishkeeping. The dumping of Koi and Goldfish is illegal over here even if they are healthy.... That doesn't not apply to where I or the person who recommended the illegal killing of protected birds live - the USA. The farm stock pond in question is cleaned out constantly by predators. There is no way the fish can make it to a waterway. ..the dumping of a diseased fish is even worse IMNSO and totally irresponsible... Of course it's worse in your opinion - I posted it. It's called "pack attack." ;-) Your endless psychology to get rid of Roy "Tristan" Hauer's trolling here by harassing me and constantly criticizing me isn't going to work Gill so give it up. That's a nice girl. :-))) -- ZB.... Frugal ponding since 1995. rec.ponder since late 1996. My Pond & Aquarium Pages: http://tinyurl.com/9do58 ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({* |
Sick koi and need advice (with pics)
"scs0" wrote in message oups.com... From what I've gathered my koi's problem may be: Carp pox (aka Lymphocystis) Since it's lived so long it's probably pox. You can also check www.koivet.com for more information on koi diseases. Or Koi herpes I'm unclear on whether or not Carp Pox and Koi Herpes are different diseases or just the same name for the same thing. I don't want to kill the fish, but it certainly sounds like I should isolate this one. That's what I did with mine because of her beauty, but the pox always came back. I finally decided she had to go. That's a bit of a pain considering the size these fish are getting to, but one thing I learned is that these bigger fish are much lazier and easier to catch than the impossible-to-catch younger ones. I definitely don't want to contact the Department of Agriculture. Government and environmental issues are a scary thing to mix and I've heard the horror stories. I'd probably end up with 100 euthanized koi and a demolished pond. I'll be lucky if they don't find a way to condemn my property altogether! Then separate the fish until you decide what to do with it. My fish was with the others for months and none of them were infected with the pox. It doesn't spread like wildfire. Even her fry were not infected. I kept a healthy fry from her to replace her. It will be 2 years old in April and no pox. I would like to get out of this without the death of this fish. I've never really liked its color patterns too much but that's a mean reason to settle for its euthanization! Don't worry; the last thing I'll do is release this fish into the wild or any other body of water for that matter. -- ZB.... Frugal ponding since 1995. rec.ponder since late 1996. My Pond & Aquarium Pages: http://tinyurl.com/9do58 Troll free pond and fish Forum: http://www.karlsforums.com/forums/fo...ay.php?fid=104 ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({* |
Sick koi and need advice (with pics)
How long a fish lives is irrevelant , and has no bearing on it. A fish can catch either disease at any age, however its more likely to catch one before the other at a younger age. One goes away with temps, but is most likely to reoccur. That fish is totally stressed out as is easily seen by the read streaks in tail. Since that warty looking mass of flesh was not there earlier that pretty well leave sout the once disease, along with the patch or white that refuses to go away, somehow I am just lead to belive that fish is a total mess and is doomed.... Your right, it needs to be quarantined, and not dumped in someone else pond to get it out of sight. Do a search on both deseases, for your self without any intervention by opposed parties here on the usenet groups. If you come up with more questions ask. As no one wants to loose a fish either, it is not hard to get into a no win situation with not really knowing what is wrong with the fish, and two, not having professionals around to diagnose it properly and that entails a patholgy type test, not a simple visual look see in a picture. Then comes expense to cure if its possible to cure the problem and a means to do it. Is it really worth while to QT a fish long term or is it better overall to bite the bullet and euthanize. As good as your images are, its hard to say one way or the other and any one reallay saying its this or that for sure is guessing. Not the wisest choice of info to take. I threw a post on a wellknown koi forum, not wanting to have a simple or easy diagnosis go unchecked if there is such a thing, and as much as I do not want to take away potential posters from this group I am looking at the ebst interests for your fish overall. In anothe rpost I will make entitled Consensus of sick Koi, you can read what replies have been made and make your own decison, but just remember, only 100% real way to know is a pathological test for the type of virus....no wild a$$ guess is effective and its a shot in the dark. If you choose that decision or advice is yoiur option, and no one is gonna find fault wityh you for doing what you think is right, wellthat is except forone person here who advises to toss it ina farm pond. Let me gopy paste the replies and make that post and then you can see yet more opinions some of which are made by professionals in the world of KOI. Regards On 14 Feb 2007 11:17:56 -0800, "scs0" wrote: From what I've gathered my koi's problem may be: Carp pox (aka Lymphocystis) Or Koi herpes I'm unclear on whether or not Carp Pox and Koi Herpes are different diseases or just the same name for the same thing. I don't want to kill the fish, but it certainly sounds like I should isolate this one. That's a bit of a pain considering the size these fish are getting to, but one thing I learned is that these bigger fish are much lazier and easier to catch than the impossible-to-catch younger ones. I definitely don't want to contact the Department of Agriculture. Government and environmental issues are a scary thing to mix and I've heard the horror stories. I'd probably end up with 100 euthanized koi and a demolished pond. I'll be lucky if they don't find a way to condemn my property altogether! I would like to get out of this without the death of this fish. I've never really liked its color patterns too much but that's a mean reason to settle for its euthanization! Don't worry; the last thing I'll do is release this fish into the wild or any other body of water for that matter. ------- I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know! |
Sick koi and need advice (with pics)
Totally assinine information given by an obnoxious individual that thinks they know all but really knows very little. This person is notorious for passing out erroneous info and any info given by her should not be trusted to even be inline with what was asked or relavant to the situation. In most folks opinions its better to do without informaiton by this person than to chance usuing any of it. On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 14:20:12 -0600, Zëbulon wrote: "scs0" wrote in message legroups.com... From what I've gathered my koi's problem may be: Carp pox (aka Lymphocystis) Since it's lived so long it's probably pox. You can also check www.koivet.com for more information on koi diseases. Or Koi herpes I'm unclear on whether or not Carp Pox and Koi Herpes are different diseases or just the same name for the same thing. I don't want to kill the fish, but it certainly sounds like I should isolate this one. That's what I did with mine because of her beauty, but the pox always came back. I finally decided she had to go. Yea put the fish insoomeone elses pond and let them catch the aftereffects...Really nice compasionate and reliable individual is what yu are CArol....I assume its safe to say you would push your ownn mother out ino the streets if she became a leper so you would not have to deal with it. Your a real gem carol one of a kind! That's a bit of a pain considering the size these fish are getting to, but one thing I learned is that these bigger fish are much lazier and easier to catch than the impossible-to-catch younger ones. I definitely don't want to contact the Department of Agriculture. Government and environmental issues are a scary thing to mix and I've heard the horror stories. I'd probably end up with 100 euthanized koi and a demolished pond. I'll be lucky if they don't find a way to condemn my property altogether! Then separate the fish until you decide what to do with it. My fish was with the others for months and none of them were infected with the pox. It doesn't spread like wildfire. Even her fry were not infected. I kept a healthy fry from her to replace her. It will be 2 years old in April and no pox. I would like to get out of this without the death of this fish. I've never really liked its color patterns too much but that's a mean reason to settle for its euthanization! Don't worry; the last thing I'll do is release this fish into the wild or any other body of water for that matter. ------- I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know! |
Sick koi and need advice (with pics)
"Zëbulon" The dumping of Koi and Goldfish is illegal over here even if they are healthy.... That doesn't not apply to where I or the person who recommended the illegal killing of protected birds live - the USA. Releasing (dumping) non native fish in the U.S . is most certainly illegal and punishable by a hefty fine. Knowingly releasing diseased fish is a criminal act punishable by a fine plus possible jail time. Ecosystems have been devastated by the introduction of non-native species and diseases to which native species have have no immunity. |
Consensus of Sick Koi was ---- Sick koi and need advice (with pics)
Here is the copy pastes of opinions and advice of some others in a
well run troll free forum that has lots of professional koi health practitioners known in the world of KOI.....Names of posters have been X'd out but they are professionals and not quacks. I am not saying that there is not folks in the rec.p[onds group that are not capable, but right now participation due to trolls and folks like carol Gulley aka Zebulon makes conducting anything almost impossible to help people out. Best of luck to you. ================================== The tail looks like koi pox and the fish is very stressed as you can see from the red streaks in the tail. The second pic isn't clear. It could have a thicker slime coat causing the whitish film. Have they been tested for parasites? What's the water temp and pH and are they stable? xxxxxx Advanced Member Group: Moderator Posts: 2,287 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Eastern (Thumb) Panhandle of Wild Wonderful West Virginia Member No.: 28 Hmmm. I don't know xxxxx....that lesion on the tail sure looks more like a tumor or lymphocystis. See the texutre of it and the color? Pox is usually just opaque and flatter. Seems to be more of this thing going on......viral....and hard to "cure". What kind of water temperature is this fish kept in? Pox will clear in warmer water usually. Most specimens(not all) I have seen with this flat wide whitened (viral poxy type) area have not been kept in good water. If it is not getting smaller (especially if they live in an area where the temperature changes with the seasons) but bigger, I would expect lymphocystis or cancer. This post has been edited byxxxx: Yesterday, 11:49 PM =================================== xxxxxxx Advanced Member Group: Super Moderator Posts: 4,355 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Lugoff, SC Member No.: 21 I have to agree with xxx.....the tail looks like a cancerous growth to me. xxxxxxxxxxxxx Advanced Member Group: Moderator Posts: 527 Joined: 4-June 06 From: Halifax, Nova Scotia Member No.: 95 I also agree with xxxxx and xxxxx, that the taol looks like a tumorous growth. From the very few cases I've seen of on freshwater fish and the numerous ones that I've seen on sal****er fish ....Lymphocystis usually just forms a whitish cauliflower like growth, with out the red inflammation. The dorsal spot is probably pox but but it reminds me of Hikui, but that usually just shows up on beni, so I'm not sure what it is\ xxxx xxxxxxxxx Advanced Member Group: Super Moderator Posts: 4,972 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Covington, Louisiana Member No.: 14 ================================ Maybe I had wrong advice with my fish. Years ago, I had a fish with a lesion that looked just like that only at the joint of the pec fin. It as also red. I was told it was koi pox and it would come and go with temp changes. I could never figure out why the lump never went away. Sorry for the wrong advice. xxxxxxxxx Advanced Member Group: Moderator Posts: 527 Joined: 4-June 06 From: Halifax, Nova Scotia Member No.: 95 xxxxx, not all that wrong............ if you look at the edge of the fin those growths are pox..............overall this fish has problems xx ======================================== xxxxxxxx Advanced Member Group: Super Moderator Posts: 4,972 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Covington, Louisiana Member No.: 14 Thanks, xxx So the main difference in telling a tumor from pox is the red veining? Does location have anything to do with it? xxxxxxxxxxx =============================================== Advanced Member xxxxx Advanced Member Group: Moderator Posts: 527 Joined: 4-June 06 From: Halifax, Nova Scotia Member No.: 95 QUOTE(xxxxxx @ Feb 14 2007, 09:56 AM) Thanks,xxxxxxxxxx So the main difference in telling a tumor from pox is the red veining? Does location have anything to do with it? 1st off unless a path lab did some testing, we're giving opinions here, not fact........If you look at the fin edge and then the growth they really do not like alike. The growth has very definate edges and the growths at the fin edges kind of blend back into the fin. Both have some veining and inflammation. If you blow the second pic up the anal fin also has some growth on it...overall this fish is a mess xxxxxxx ===================== ------- I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know! |
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