Hey guys, my name is Sarah and I'm new to the group. I've been reading through many of the useful threads here but I still can't make up my mind what to do for the best in my situation.
I bought my house late last year and the garden was a bit of a disaster zone so I've been renovating it and I'm now at a point where I'm ready to tackle the lawn.

A bit of background on the garden.
The house is an 50's style terraced property originally built for the families of miners and the garden looked to have never had any real work done to it in all that time. There was a poured concrete path and three metal washing line poles set in concrete all connected in a triangle taking up most of the garden. In addition there was a very old and very large shed set on 12 paving slabs to the side.
I set about clearing the garden a couple of weeks ago and pulled down the shed and had the fence replaced. I then spent this weekend ripping up the old path and removing the washing line poles.
The lawn was already in a very poor state with around 50% moss and another 30% deep rooted weeds (dock leaves/thistles) clover and dandelions to name a few and a large patch of lawn has been killed during the fencing work and removing the shed.
Due to the path the middle area of the lawn is raised in a hump with the areas outside of where the path was dipping down about an inch or two.
I was originally considering nuking the existing lawn and rotavating the cleared area so I could level it and re-seed but having read up on the process I'm not sure it's viable or affordable for me.
All access to the garden is through the house as there's no rear or side access so any equipment and materials would need to come through my house. This would pose an issue for the rotavator to start with but would also mean that having any large deliveries of topsoil or manure delivered would be almost impossible as deliveries would have to be moved into wheel barrows and carted through the house one barrow at a time. Add to that the costs involved and I'm not sure I can justify it - not right now at least.
Is there any way I can salvage the existing lawn just by manually digging and leveling the worst areas and using bags of topsoil to fill in the worst dips? I have no idea how to tackle the deep rooted weed problem - is there a deep root weed killer I can use that won't damage the soil and kill any grass that is still alive? I've repaired lawns in the past but I've never had to deal with one with so many deep rooted weeds and major structural issues before :/
I was hopeful that if I could manually level out the worst areas of the lawn and kill off the weeds I could rake in a top dressing and try to overseed the lawn to give it a chance but I'm not sure if there's another approach I've not considered.
I'm not after the lawn of the year, I'd just like a lawn that is green, mostly weed free and doesn't look like it has corpses buried in it.

Some pics to give you an idea of what I'm dealing with.

Thanks in advance

On 03/08/2015 12:14, Sarie wrote:

Hey guys, my name is Sarah and I'm new to the group. I've been reading
through many of the useful threads here but I still can't make up my
mind what to do for the best in my situation.

I think as Chris has suggested you would be better off sketching a plan
of what you want it to look like when finished and decide where you are
going to have any patio to catch the sunshine or borders with plants in.

I bought my house late last year and the garden was a bit of a disaster
zone so I've been renovating it and I'm now at a point where I'm ready
to tackle the lawn.

It doesn't look *too* bad to me.

I suspect if you lawn mow it regularly and treat it a couple of times
with weed and feed the grass will overcome the weeds. Then Verdone will
allow you to kill any remaining broadleaf weeds in the lawn. You will
have to do it several times. On a small area like that you can also and
satisfyingly pull them out after using a 12" screwdriver down the side
of the tap root to loosen it up. Don't buy an expensive get weeds out of
lawn tool they are all rubbish and vastly overpriced.

It may need a hollow tined fork to improve drainage to see off the moss
but try an ordinary fork first. How fussy are you about the moss? It is
green and doesn't need so much cutting. If you want rid then raking it
out and adding some grass seed should have time to grow this season but
you will have to stay off the lawn whilst it establishes. You probably
want a tough wearing grass seed rather than fine bowling green.

I was originally considering nuking the existing lawn and rotavating the
cleared area so I could level it and re-seed but having read up on the
process I'm not sure it's viable or affordable for me.

Top dressing the low spots with a soil/sand/peat mix going into winter
is probably a lot less effort.

Is there any way I can salvage the existing lawn just by manually
digging and leveling the worst areas and using bags of topsoil to fill
in the worst dips? I have no idea how to tackle the deep rooted weed
problem - is there a deep root weed killer I can use that won't damage
the soil and kill any grass that is still alive? I've repaired lawns in
the past but I've never had to deal with one with so many deep rooted
weeds and major structural issues before :/

Broad leaf specific weed killer. You want something like Verdone and
also a version in the touch weeder wax/gel formulation so that every
time you see something emerge you can zap it. Big weeds don't last that
long in a lawn that is being looked after regularly.

I was hopeful that if I could manually level out the worst areas of the
lawn and kill off the weeds I could rake in a top dressing and try to
overseed the lawn to give it a chance but I'm not sure if there's
another approach I've not considered.

I'm not after the lawn of the year, I'd just like a lawn that is green,
mostly weed free and doesn't look like it has corpses buried in it.

Beware of trying the cut an H in the lawn, fold back turf and raise the
level. It is much harder to do than it reads in the books. Small height
adjustments are much easier with top dressing during winter.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Thank you both for taking the time to reply in so much detail for me
I've ordered a big bucket of general lawn fertilizer so I'll start by feeding the entire lawn and give it a week or so for the weeds to grow back up a little. I've also now ordered some Verdone Extra so once the fertilizer has done its job I'll give the entire lawn a good dose of Verdone and see how it goes and if necessary I'll give it a second dose after a few weeks have passed.
I have a rotary mower so I'll put that on the highest setting for the initial cuts and see if I can get the existing lawn to recover some before I start the landscaping work.
I've got a plan in my head for the garden layout but drawing it out sounds like a good idea. I thought I'd do a large shrub bed at the bottom of the garden along the full width of the fence as when you look out of the kitchen window this is the part of the garden you see the most and it also has by far the best quality of soil as the garden slopes downwards slightly so the soil here stays moist.
I was intending to put in two large curved beds, one in each corner, with gently inverted curve joining the two together across the width of the back.
I'd quite like to plant something in the back left hand corner to act as a screen too as behind the garden is a very large block of flats and their windows overlook the house and garden but I'm unsure what I can plant in a small garden without it leeching the goodness out of the soil and overshadowing the rest of the garden too much. It needs to grow to around 10ft tall ideally to offer any kind of decent screen.
I thought I'd also run some narrower straight beds up the sides of the lawn along the fence as I hate having grass growing up the side of the fences - it's a nuisance to cut and it's a bit boring really.
The left hand side will be taken care of with the slabs and a new 4x3 shed that will sit on there. There's a brick shed near the house so I don't need a second huge shed, just a little one will do
Behind the photos I posted there's also a patio across the full width of the house, although it's not very large but I hope to expand it further down the line. For now though it takes care of any patio requirements
I'll pick up a gardening fork as I don't have one anymore (got lost during the move) and see if I can get some drainage into the lawn as you suggested. The soil around here is quite heavy clay so drainage issues are pretty common but the slope of my lawn does help it to run off better than if the lawn were completely flat.
I guess once I've got the existing grass a little healthier I can transplant the turf from the bottom into the grooves where I removed the path as you suggest and then I'll cut in the shrub beds and level out any remaining severe dips in the lawn with some topsoil and overseed.
I just hope I can manage to get it all done before the growing season is over but if not then at least I can get the landscaping work done and get the plants in as the weather starts to cool. If necessary any seeding work can wait until the spring, as long as the bulk of the work is done

You've given me some food for thought and some hope that I can get it all in decent shape without having to do anything too drastic.
I'm not too worried about the lawn being 100% moss and clover free, I'd just prefer there to be a little more lawn than there currently is but if it turns out that the moss keeps coming back due to drainage issues, even after I go to town on it with a fork, then I guess it's easier not to fight an uphill battle with it as without digging the lawn up and putting in proper drains it's unlikely to be a fight I can win 100% As long as it's all green and the broad leaf weeds are gone, I don't mind that much - I'm just after a family friendly garden in this case so it doesn't need to look like a bowling green.

My mum works in a garden center so she gets a lot of plants for free when they're throwing out stock that's been on the shelves for too long so I've amassed quite a decent collection of shrubs that are all sat in pots waiting to go in so I'm pretty lucky in that regard, I'm not going to need to buy too many plants at all to kit the garden out once the beds are dug

Thank you both again; I'll try to make sure I keep this thread updated as things progress!

Here are a couple more photos for you too. One showing the skinny poured concrete patio across the back of the house and one showing all the concrete I've pulled out so far! The garden was more concrete than patio to start with

I'm struggling to get one lump of concrete out though - it's about 2ft x 2ft and the same again deep. The pole that was in it was so rotten that when I tried to wiggle it to move the concrete, the pole snapped clean off. There's now about 6 inches of metal poking out of the concrete so I've got no choice but to excavate it as it's dangerous and I can't bury it with turf but it's going to be a nightmare! I only just managed to get the other lump out by myself, although I've no idea how I'm going to move it from the pile I've made at the top of the garden haha. It's so solid I'm not sure I'll be able to break it apart as every time I hit it, it sinks into the lawn.

Can't say I advise excavating this amount of concrete single handedly, I'm pretty bruised! It'll be worth it though to get rid of it all

"Chris Hogg" wrote

Sarie wrote:
big snip about lawn woes

The first thing you need to do is decide what you want the final area
to look like. For example, do you want fence-to-fence grass; do you
want straight borders; do you want any hard landscaping like a paved
area for sitting out on, etc. Once you've decided your ultimate design
objective, it will be easier to proceed.

If it were mine, I would have quite a large shrub bed somewhere to
provide some vertical interest and colour and perfume at appropriate
times of the year, rather than just flat grass all over. Whether you
have straight shrub beds down each side, or one across the bottom, or
perhaps across one or both corners is up to you. IMO curved lines are
more pleasing to the eye and more interesting than straight lines. The
bigger the shrub bed, the less grass you have to cut, and the bed
gives you somewhere to spread your grass cuttings when you cut it (but
not in the early stages when you're cutting off tops of weeds or stuff
that's had selective weedkiller on it, see below).

Making a shrub bed will generate turves that you can use to fill the
shallow trench where the poured concrete path was, or use them in
other places that need grassing. IME it's surprising how even very
crudely laid and lumpy turves fairly quickly blend in with the
adjacent grass and self-level. I wouldn't try to lower the hump in the
middle. Just live with it. You won't really notice it after a while.

Once you've got the basic structure sorted, then you can think about
the grass itself. To start with, I'd just cut it. I assume you can get
a mower out there. A rotary mower (i.e. not the older type of cylinder
mower) set 'high' to start with. Repeated mowing will eventually get
rid of virtually all the weeds, but if you want to speed things up,
water with a selective weedkiller such as Verdone. Don't apply
immediately after cutting; let the weeds grow a bit first. One, or
perhaps two applications should get rid of virtually all the weeds,
and you can see what you're left with. You may be surprised how much
grass is actually there. You may also find that the patch you think is
dead will spring back to life. Don't be afraid of clover; I encourage
it in my grass. It's low growing, stays green longer than grass in dry
weather, and bees love the flowers. It also provides nitrogen and
saves you having to feed the grass so often.

You mentioned moss. This is usually a sign of compacted soil and poor
drainage. You can water with a moss killer, but the moss will probably
come back in time, and it looks pretty grim after it's first treated.
It would be better to spike the grass all over to improve the
drainage. Don't be tempted to get a 'spiker' of any sort. IMO they're
useless. You can't beat spiking with an ordinary garden fork, although
it's hard work. Drive the fork in as far as you can, preferably at
least six inches, and wiggle it a bit, before moving on about a foot
and repeating. Ideally, you should then spread gritty sand over the
spiked area and brush it in, so that it fills all the holes. More hard
work, but with restricted access to the garden, it may not be
practical to get the stuff out there.

I'm sure others will be along with more suggestions. Good luck.


As Chris says, it would be more efficient of your labour if you planned your
final garden now. You may wish for a pond, a sunny patio area or even two
for different times of the day, a tree or two for height, shrub/herbaceous
borders etc. These will all eat into the grass area that needs dealing with.
Yes, your final garden may be out of reach right now but planning for it now
will save lots of wasted effort.

--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

On 04/08/2015 16:46, Sarie wrote:
Here are a couple more photos for you too. One showing the skinny poured
concrete patio across the back of the house and one showing all the
concrete I've pulled out so far! The garden was more concrete than patio
to start with

I'm struggling to get one lump of concrete out though - it's about 2ft x
2ft and the same again deep. The pole that was in it was so rotten that
when I tried to wiggle it to move the concrete, the pole snapped clean
off. There's now about 6 inches of metal poking out of the concrete so
I've got no choice but to excavate it as it's dangerous and I can't bury
it with turf but it's going to be a nightmare! I only just managed to
get the other lump out by myself, although I've no idea how I'm going to
move it from the pile I've made at the top of the garden haha. It's so
solid I'm not sure I'll be able to break it apart as every time I hit
it, it sinks into the lawn.

Can't say I advise excavating this amount of concrete single handedly,
I'm pretty bruised! It'll be worth it though to get rid of it all


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Kango

--
Adventure before dementia.
http://www.secondchance-rehoming.co.uk/
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Secon...57749060989952

On 04/08/2015 16:46, Sarie wrote:

I'm struggling to get one lump of concrete out though - it's about 2ft x
2ft and the same again deep. The pole that was in it was so rotten that
when I tried to wiggle it to move the concrete, the pole snapped clean
off. There's now about 6 inches of metal poking out of the concrete so
I've got no choice but to excavate it as it's dangerous and I can't bury
it with turf but it's going to be a nightmare!

If it really is that big and solid you may have to split it the
traditional way with wedges or ice freeze thaw action in winter.

A 2' cube of solid concrete will be too heavy to move on your own.

Can't say I advise excavating this amount of concrete single handedly,
I'm pretty bruised! It'll be worth it though to get rid of it all

Be careful using levers to get it out (which is one way to move it). You
can inflict serious damage if you make a mistake.

My favourite method is an 8' scaffold pole and a very solid fulcrum.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown