Drew Lawson wrote:
In article
Fran Farmer writes:
On 13/06/2014 12:48 AM, Drew Lawson wrote:
In article

He seems to believe that some recent (alleged) trend in growing
grapes is going to revolutionize crop yields.

I assume that he is ignorant of the factors that brought the
increases since WW2: industrial farming, ammonium nitrate and
monocrop megafarms (mostly crowing the "carbs" he rails against).

I'm not a great fan of the current state of food production, but I
recognize that it is a current necesity. Most current starvation
is caused by economic/political factors. Reverting the methods of
production would bring starvation caused by actual lack of food.

I too am not a fan of agribusiness as it supplies the big
supermarkets and I don't think that many gardeners who grow
vegetables for their own consumption would be.

I note your mention of WWII - I keep wondering why it is that there
would be any need for anyone to 'go Paleo' given the history of food
production and when populations in the first world were doing well
due to access to good food but still had not seen the leap in
numbers of those afflicted with the modern lifestyle diseases that
are so abundant these days.

I'll let those older than me do the stronger comparisons of current
lifestyles with those in the '40s. But even comparing with the
'60s, when there were already grumblings about sedentary lifestyles,
is pretty signifigant.

My memories of the late '60s, in US small cities and suburbs, have
far more people walking. Households often only had a single car,
and days were run accordngly. There was very little shuttling kids
here and there. Kids walked or rode their bikes.

And other details that seem minor probably had a lot of effect. I
don't recall elevators much, except in the taller or fancier
buildings. Anything 2 story just had stairs.

The first shopping mall I dealt with was in 1973. Freshly opened,
there was one escalator, and several sets of stairs. The only
stairs in my local mall now are more for show than anything else.
(They frame a central atrium.)

In my view, a lot of the trend toward obesity came in very small
steps like those. That along with more convenience. I can park
close to things now, so I walk less. Etc.

And, of course, cheaper bulk food helped drive our personal bulk.

I've been debating whith myself whether that would date to between
the wars of earlier. I suspect the timing would vary a bit
according to which nation was under discussion because I know that
WWII and it's rationing lead to better health amongst the general
population. There's some interesting stuff on that around the web -
or was last time I looked..

The reason I referenced WW2 is that it seems to be a standard turning
point, at least for US agriculture. All of the industrial build
up and advancement of the war got turned to post-war use. We took
improvements for tanks and made bigger tractors. The oil demand
of the war drove expanding the supply, and an eventual outcome was
expansion of the petrochemical industry.

I probably have some of that wrong, but that's my general impression.

I think you are on the right track. One of the turning points in Oz was
after WW2 when cars became cheap enough for nearly every family to own one.
People stopped walking and riding bikes. Kids used to be so proud when they
got their first bike now they wait for the car. If I went to visit my
cousins as a boy (say 1960) during school holidays we were not allowed in
the house during the day unless it was raining. We were expected to go out
and run about, play a ball sport, build a fortress, explore the
neighbourhood, ride billycarts. Then such a rule was not exceptional but
reasonable common sense, try imposing that rule today.


D