On Friday, June 13, 2014 4:16:41 PM UTC-7, David Hare-Scott wrote:
Drew Lawson wrote:

In article

Fran Farmer writes:

On 13/06/2014 12:48 AM, Drew Lawson wrote:

In article



He seems to believe that some recent (alleged) trend in growing

grapes is going to revolutionize crop yields.



I assume that he is ignorant of the factors that brought the

increases since WW2: industrial farming, ammonium nitrate and

monocrop megafarms (mostly crowing the "carbs" he rails against).



I'm not a great fan of the current state of food production, but I

recognize that it is a current necesity. Most current starvation

is caused by economic/political factors. Reverting the methods of

production would bring starvation caused by actual lack of food.



I too am not a fan of agribusiness as it supplies the big

supermarkets and I don't think that many gardeners who grow

vegetables for their own consumption would be.



I note your mention of WWII - I keep wondering why it is that there

would be any need for anyone to 'go Paleo' given the history of food

production and when populations in the first world were doing well

due to access to good food but still had not seen the leap in

numbers of those afflicted with the modern lifestyle diseases that

are so abundant these days.



I'll let those older than me do the stronger comparisons of current

lifestyles with those in the '40s. But even comparing with the

'60s, when there were already grumblings about sedentary lifestyles,

is pretty signifigant.



My memories of the late '60s, in US small cities and suburbs, have

far more people walking. Households often only had a single car,

and days were run accordngly. There was very little shuttling kids

here and there. Kids walked or rode their bikes.



And other details that seem minor probably had a lot of effect. I

don't recall elevators much, except in the taller or fancier

buildings. Anything 2 story just had stairs.



The first shopping mall I dealt with was in 1973. Freshly opened,

there was one escalator, and several sets of stairs. The only

stairs in my local mall now are more for show than anything else.

(They frame a central atrium.)



In my view, a lot of the trend toward obesity came in very small

steps like those. That along with more convenience. I can park

close to things now, so I walk less. Etc.



And, of course, cheaper bulk food helped drive our personal bulk.



I've been debating whith myself whether that would date to between

the wars of earlier. I suspect the timing would vary a bit

according to which nation was under discussion because I know that

WWII and it's rationing lead to better health amongst the general

population. There's some interesting stuff on that around the web -

or was last time I looked..



The reason I referenced WW2 is that it seems to be a standard turning

point, at least for US agriculture. All of the industrial build

up and advancement of the war got turned to post-war use. We took

improvements for tanks and made bigger tractors. The oil demand

of the war drove expanding the supply, and an eventual outcome was

expansion of the petrochemical industry.



I probably have some of that wrong, but that's my general impression.



I think you are on the right track. One of the turning points in Oz was

after WW2 when cars became cheap enough for nearly every family to own one.

People stopped walking and riding bikes. Kids used to be so proud when they

got their first bike now they wait for the car. If I went to visit my

cousins as a boy (say 1960) during school holidays we were not allowed in

the house during the day unless it was raining. We were expected to go out

and run about, play a ball sport, build a fortress, explore the

neighbourhood, ride billycarts. Then such a rule was not exceptional but

reasonable common sense, try imposing that rule today.

We were so poor we never HAD a car. Once in a while the neighbors took us somewhere. I get every form of motion sickness.(Even got it while hang-gliding in tandem with instructor. He said we're going down and I said NO NO NO He said "I've been thrown up on before and it's not going to happen again."
Holy tamale; I was just a tad queasy!!!)

Anyway, I often disgraced myself; didn't always get to the window of neighbor's car in time...

Back to playtime: We also went out to play and came home when it got dark. Nobody worried about kidnapping or molesters back then. Maybe they existed, but we never heard about them.

Sigh!

HB