On 13/06/2014 10:56 PM, Drew Lawson wrote:
In article
Fran Farmer writes:
On 13/06/2014 12:48 AM, Drew Lawson wrote:
In article

He seems to believe that some recent (alleged) trend in growing
grapes is going to revolutionize crop yields.

I assume that he is ignorant of the factors that brought the increases
since WW2: industrial farming, ammonium nitrate and monocrop
megafarms (mostly crowing the "carbs" he rails against).

I'm not a great fan of the current state of food production, but I
recognize that it is a current necesity. Most current starvation
is caused by economic/political factors. Reverting the methods of
production would bring starvation caused by actual lack of food.

I too am not a fan of agribusiness as it supplies the big supermarkets
and I don't think that many gardeners who grow vegetables for their own
consumption would be.

I note your mention of WWII - I keep wondering why it is that there
would be any need for anyone to 'go Paleo' given the history of food
production and when populations in the first world were doing well due
to access to good food but still had not seen the leap in numbers of
those afflicted with the modern lifestyle diseases that are so abundant
these days.

I'll let those older than me do the stronger comparisons of current
lifestyles with those in the '40s. But even comparing with the
'60s, when there were already grumblings about sedentary lifestyles,
is pretty signifigant.

You don't need to find people older than you to learn or find out about
those times - there is plenty of social history on the Net that will
tell you about the food, the clothes, the transport etc of most of the
decades of the 30th century.

Because I am interested in older crafts (spinning, weaving, knitting,
embroidery, garment sewing [on one of my geriatric sewing machines that
include treadle and hand crank]) and what is now a reasonably old
fashioned style of living (cooking from base ingredients, gardening,
home maintenance etc) we find the Net a wonderful resource where we can
find like minded people who have similar interests. My husband likes
geriatric European sports cars of the 1920s through to the early 1950s.

My memories of the late '60s, in US small cities and suburbs, have
far more people walking. Households often only had a single car,
and days were run accordngly. There was very little shuttling kids
here and there. Kids walked or rode their bikes.

I too recall those times. As a child it was a rare treat to travel to a
tiny town 10 miles away - these days relatives who live in the same area
would do that trip at least once a day.

And other details that seem minor probably had a lot of effect. I
don't recall elevators much, except in the taller or fancier
buildings. Anything 2 story just had stairs.

The first shopping mall I dealt with was in 1973. Freshly opened,
there was one escalator, and several sets of stairs. The only
stairs in my local mall now are more for show than anything else.
(They frame a central atrium.)

In my view, a lot of the trend toward obesity came in very small
steps like those. That along with more convenience. I can park
close to things now, so I walk less. Etc.

And, of course, cheaper bulk food helped drive our personal bulk.

Yep. but one of the other losses was the traditional homemaking skills
such as growing food and being able to cook from scratch. The need to
keep foods in good order on the shelves and in both the grocery store
and in homes for longer resulted in more additives and less 'as nature
intended it' products.


I've been debating whith myself whether that would date to between the
wars of earlier. I suspect the timing would vary a bit according to
which nation was under discussion because I know that WWII and it's
rationing lead to better health amongst the general population. There's
some interesting stuff on that around the web - or was last time I
looked..

The reason I referenced WW2 is that it seems to be a standard turning
point, at least for US agriculture. All of the industrial build
up and advancement of the war got turned to post-war use. We took
improvements for tanks and made bigger tractors. The oil demand
of the war drove expanding the supply, and an eventual outcome was
expansion of the petrochemical industry.

I probably have some of that wrong, but that's my general impression.

IIRC, post WWI was a starting point for the commercial availability of
canned food as opposed to made at home from scratch ingredients. After
the end of WWII came the really big changes to how food in the home
changed from, say, the 19th century. As you said, all those amazing
things needed because of war technology just got applied to the rest of
society from those great modern tractors in paddocks (fields) on through
the production chain and into leisure too.