Thread: tom-tato?
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Old 18-01-2015, 09:16 PM posted to rec.gardens
songbird[_2_] songbird[_2_] is offline
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jun 2010
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Default tom-tato?

Todd wrote:
....

it's winter, i have time, long post ahead... : )


I remember Songbird wonderful advice about just go straight to the
ground and skip the raised beds -- get a lot more space. And she
really struck a cord.


it's better to not make assumptions about gender on
the net when you don't know for sure.

the use of "they" in that case would be more appropriate
(FTR i am male if that makes you feel better).


But, no one is successful with that out
here due to the decomposed sandstone. If I were to do my whole
back yard, the cost of importing good topsoil would be greater than
the raised beds.


what is your usual annual rainfall? are there high winds
very often? sunshine, freeze thaws, etc? is your primary
source of water via irrigation?

bringing in topsoil can be a short term solution, but i'd
hope that you've figured out your water and wind flows and
reshaped appropriately before doing that. it makes no sense
to bring in stuff that will wash or blow away.

with a limited budget you can get reasonable results by
adding some clay (3 - 5 percent) and using whatever organic
weed seed free materials you can scrounge (shredded cardboard
boxes can work just fine for starters -- use those that are
plain as possible with the less printed on them the better
or only black ink printing). and the garden will likely do
much better if you don't scatter resources widely and thinly.
pick a space you will use the most and work on improving and
understand that process first. each year you should have an
improving soil profile as more organic materials break down
and get recycled. always have something growing even if it
will be turned under later (peas, beans, soybeans, radishes,
buckwheat, turnips, winter wheat, oats, barley, beets... many
seeds are available in bulk from a farm supply store or a
grain elevator for not that much money).

around the edges grow deeper mining plants like alfalfa to be
used as a cover crop, source of trace nutrients and mulch when
you chop them back (they may need a few years to get established).
sometimes it may be good to plant some seeds in very deep and
narrow tubes and let them grow where you can make sure they
are kept moist before planting them out. depends upon your
conditions and if you have a rainy season, if you can irrigate
during dry spells, etc. with alfalfa having a deep tap root
established in the second and third year it can then usually
survive some of the dryer spells.

for larger areas practice water retaining strategies as they
also retain any topsoil you may be forming elsewheres. into
and around these features you can plant your other organic
material producers (native adapted shrubs, trees, or anything
else you can find to grow that will survive being trimmed back
once in a while, your larger sprawling garden plants are often
better off kept away from the regular gardens anyways as they
tend to take over if given a chance). use those trimmings and
plant remains as garden mulches or compost material sources and
to keep the soil covered as much as possible. hedges for wind
breaks are also very important for arid climate growing.

never export organic materials (via wind, water or harvest)
if you can help it, grow as much as you can and chop it to keep
the soil organic content high enough to help keep the soil moist.
all paper products that arrive here don't leave (unless they
are the plastic coated types which i don't recycle) they become
worm food and then garden food once processed.

these may upset some folks: fresh road kill is a near perfect
addition to a garden (avoid species which might be rabid or carrying
other problematic diseases), compost it or bury it deeply so that
the critters and your planting won't disturb it and within a few
years it's gold. of course human manure composting will help increase
soil nutrients too. if your family is healthy and doesn't use hormones
or chemotherapeutics then composted poo/pee is a valuable resource.
hard to get people to accept it, but there is no reason to not use
such a valuable resource if you can learn to do it safely (the
humanure handbook is freely available on-line). it just freaks
out people though so most gardeners won't do it (but they will use
composted cow manure from sources they know much less about than
their own family, so go figure...). if you build in a long enough
cycle there is no problem from disease organisms and if you are
very paranoid you can even use it as a subsoil amendment (buried
deeply again) and that will cover all remaining issues.

learning about composting and rotting in general is useful
anyways. using worms to process any vegetable wastes, bone
grinding, egg shells, how to scrounge materials, asking around
for finding unused fruit trees and other gleanings, many ways
of getting more organic materials if you have the time or
inclination. here we will accept chunks of rotting wood, bark,
sawdust, leaves, twigs (shredded or not) from friends who do
firewood cutting. we don't have termites so there is no problem
from putting these around and letting them get broken down by
fungi, ants, worms, beetles, etc. organic produce stores,
butcher, farm stands, neighbors, ... the list is pretty much
endless once you start looking and asking around.

oh, i've left out the animal angle. the role that animals
can play in restoring topsoil is worth a book in itself. we
don't go beyond worm and soil community type critters here as
Ma cannot tolerate animals of any kind, but i would get a lot
of use out of a small goat and a few quail.

it's often more a matter of what you are willing to do.
i try to keep it as simple as possible here. stopping at the
worm level is a very easy system and doesn't require a whole
lot of extra efforts on my part. if i spend more than an
hour a month on worm stuff it is because i'm goofing around
and have the time. in the winter i have plenty of time.

for some fun reading you can check out the case studies at:

http://www.soilsforlife.org.au/case-studies.html

for ideas of how to deal with degraded or barren land. there
are many other resources and ideas available out there. i tend
to like those that consider the whole system and work at
improving the diversity and basic groundwater holding capacity,
but it is pretty important to also make sure that if you are
doing groundwater holding stuff and there are hills involved
to make sure your geology can support the extra water without
slipping.


songbird