Derald wrote:
Terry Coombs wrote:

I have her book somewhere , but remember the basics . Next summer I will be
embarking on a no-till project

I am a great fan of "no-till" gardening but, unfortunately, I must
shake up my beds at least once/year and dig them every third-or-so year
due to incursion of native tree roots. I read Ms Stout's first book in
the mid-'70s and, IIRC, she minimized the fairly significant fact that
she _already_ had a thriving truck garden before she decided to stop
digging.

yeah...

Derald you do have to recognize that the OP is
dealing with sloped areas and that's always a challenge
when one combines that with clay and the potential for
heavy rains. surface mulching (whether you call it
lasagna gardening or whatever else) is going to be an
important part of any gardening in such an area until
it gets covered again with vegetation.

terracing and soaking in rains can only go so far too
without it being a potential hazard (soak in too much
water and you end up having the entire hillside slip).


Unfortunately, new gardeners who see her book and/or who give
credence to the great mass of "Pollyanna" (and largely fictitious, IMO)
BS that abounds on the W3 about "no-till" and "lasagna" gardening often
conclude that all one need do is pile a bunch of crap into a bed and
wait for magic to happen. Well, the "magic" is (almost) certain to
occur, in most climates, but the expectant gardener could be long dead.

hmm, while i don't practive no-till in all of the
gardens here those gardens which are not tilled are those
that are very productive vs. how much effort i have to
expend on them.

i practice minimal soil disturbance methods in 80-90%
of the veggie garden area and the rest gets moved by
shovel so it isn't shredded.

depends a lot too upon what i have extra to bury too
as i'd rather stash extra organic materials underground
where the worms can get at them.

minimal till, i'm not into doing things just because
- i am into doing things which improve the soil the
most and so far i'm liking how it is going with what
i'm doing and how little effort i actually have to
expend for most of the gardens.

as i keep consolidating gardens it has made it a lot
easier to work in them. dedicated pathways, the less
of those i have the better. if you must have them use
organic mulching materials and then at least you can
come through later and turn it all under and plant it.


I am a strong advocate (and long-time practitioner) of
chemical-free, wide-row gardening, especially for new installations in
areas with less than perfect soil texture—that is, most of North
America;-) Toward that end, I found early issues of "The Mother Earth
News" (first five or ten years) as well as Dick Raymond's _The Joy of
Gardening_ (1982, Garden Way Inc.) informative. Raymond's _Dick
Raymond's Gardening Year_ (1985, Linden Press) is also quite useful but
one must adjust the relevant dates to conform to ones latitude.
FWIW: Garden Way is the company that manufactured and sold the
"Troy Built" brand of gasoline powered rotary tillers and which also
sponsored Raymond's teevee "infomercials". However, regardless of ones
view of rototilling, the principles and information remain valid.

heh, well as i've found out here they don't work well in
clay when it is either too wet or too dry and destroy the
creatures in the soil that i most want to encourage so i've
not done it since. the worms are much happier now (yes i
take a poll ).

the other trouble we had with them is that for the small
garden plots we had they made more of a mess than a help.

the money spent on the tillers (two, several hundred each)
could easily have financed my seed, tool and hose buys for
the next 10 - 20 years.


Through it all one cannot overemphsize the importance of succession
planting (so-called "relay planting") and of crop rotation. If you
don't already do so, start a garden journal that at least record
planting dates and location, 80% germination date, date of first
harvest, date of removal from the garden. After a few seasons, that
information will prove useful in planning companion and succession
planting.

crop rotation is how i make my amending efforts go
as far as possible. very efficient.


songbird