On 26/03/2016 10:01, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 25/03/16 21:27, David Hill wrote:

To think I started this thread to see if Glyphosate could be used in
winter and this year it's worked, though how useful this info will be
when it's no longer available who knows.
I was a great believer in Gramoxone, a very good contact weed killer but
it's no longer available and unfortunately I now have to use Glyphosate
even though I believe it does have some residual effect on some plants,
dahlias for one.

Very nasty chemical, paraquat (the active stuff in Gramoxone). Have you
tried using diquat (Weedol, etc)? It's still pretty good as a
weedkiller, and less toxic than paraquat.

I used to have a combination of 2 chemicals I could use post planting on
dahlias but they have also been removed by the EC.

To be fair, you'll probably find that it's not just the EU who have
removed chemicals from the market. But there have been quite a few
"removals" by manufacturers who simply do not have safety data for old
products and it would not be cost-effective to generate that data. So,
by default, as the safety data are not available for review, the
products are removed from the market.

I dread to think what we will have in 5 years time.

I doubt anything will be available to the amateur other than
ineffective, but environmentally safe, products. Just see how few
chemicals remain available to the amateur now at
https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/pdfs/p...home-gardeners and
even that list may be out of date. I have been trying to get some
concentrate to make a drench to get rid of a soil-based root-eater (vine
weevil? There is no sign of what ate the roots) in a potted plant I
bought. The only one listed in that RHS paper is Bug Clear Ultra Vine
Weevil Killer (acetamiprid), but all I can find are those little
hand-held spray bottles.

I remember when Paraquat and Diquat were brought out. In the early days
we would alternate between then but over time it became clear that
paraquat was the more versatile product and a great chemical if you
wanted to grow using the "Stale seed bed " technique, also in around 50
years of using it I never saw any signs of possible residual damage to
follow on crops, (Can't say the same for Glyphosate)
The problem with Diquat is it's inability to control grass, so instead
of clearing the ground, you end up with a lawn.
The annoying thing is that in the US they have brought out a replacement
for Gramoxone, but not available in Europe.
For your Vine weevil you might still be able to get Provado either from
Amazon or on E bay. Otherwise nematodes do seem to work well for small
areas.
David @ a now wet side of Swansea Bay