View Single Post
  #11   Report Post  
Old 26-04-2003, 01:23 PM
P van Rijckevorsel
 
Posts: n/a
Default Tropical Hardwoods

David Hershey schreef
A common or vernacular plant name does not have to be in common or

frequent use to be considered a common name.

+ + +
Frequency does not necessarily come into it. If in a certain language Xxxx
is a common name for a certain plant, and all the native speakers agree on
this then it is a "common name". It is possible that there are only, say,
three native speakers left of a certain language (it does happen), making
such a name infrequently used.

Similarly if your grandchildren call Cymbalaria muralis the "buried-fruit
plant"; then if they are abducted by aliens and left to fend for themselves
on planet CG#%J and they should be the only inhabitants then "buried-fruit
plant" is likely to become the common name among the populace of the planet.
If however the rest of humanity is given a trans-warp drive and they are
visited on their planet every week by a spaceship the names now common to
English-speaking people are likely to remain the common names.

I suppose it would be fair to say that the status of a common name depends
both upon the acceptance among the people to whom it is supposed to be
"common" and the status of that group of people to the larger whole.
+ + +

The plant common name webpage I cited and other plant taxonomy experts

have said that there are no rules for plant common names. Basically,
anything goes with plant common names. The webpage mentions "the chaos
of so-called 'common names'." The great plant taxonomist Liberty Hyde
Bailey said, "Each [common] name is a law unto itself." (Bailey, L.H.
1963. How Plants Get Their Names. New York: Dover). Woody plant expert
Michael Dirr said, "Common names are a constant source of confusion
and embarassment." (Dirr, M. A. 1983. Manual of Woody Landscape
Plants. Champaign, Illinois: Stipes Publishing).

Your cat example is irrelevant because the topic is plant common

names. However, if you apply the situation to plants, there is nothing
illegal about it. For example, maybe you decide to call an individual
plant of Cymbalaria muralis the buried-fruit plant. Later, your
children notice other specimens and refer to all plants of that
species as buried-fruit plant. There is nothing illegal about them
using buried-fruit plant as a common name. It would not be a
scientific approach but it would not be illegal as discussed in the
previous paragraph. It would be an example of how proliferation of
common names has created confusion.

The webpage you cited on Linaria cymbalaria or Cymbalaria muralis is

an excellent example of the multiplicity of common names for a single
species: http://www.nature1.org/t/toaivy20.html It listed 14 English
common names plus an English translation of the Italian common name.
Hortus Third lists another two, Kenilworth ivy and coliseum ivy. Other
websites list additional common names, such as ruine-de-Rome,
cymbalaire des murs (French), zymbelkraut or zimbelkraut,
murtorskemunn (German), ruinas, hierba de campanario and palomilla de
muro (Spanish), picardia (Catala), muurleeuwebek (Dutch), kilkkaruoho,
rauniokilkka (Finnish), murreva, murgrönssporreblomma (Swedish),
vedbend-torskemund (Danish), ciombolino comune, cimbalaria (Italian),
lnica murowa (Polish), linaria and monkey-mouths. (I'm not absolutely
sure of the languages for all the names).

+ + +
There are rules for common names, just not a single set.

Indeed "illegal" is the wrong word in this context. There is nothing illegal
about anybody using "buried-fruit plant" as a name, but it is likely to
remain an
in-family joke only.

My Webster's dictionary defines a name as "the distinctive appelation by
which a person or thing is known"

Since "buried-fruit plant" is not a name "known" by English-speaking people
it is not a common name. The reason there are so many English common names
for Cymbalaria muralis is that once upon a time there used to be little
travel
and communication, and each area had its own 'language' or 'dialect', groups
of people that "knew" that particular name for this plant. In listing common
names it is very useful to include the language/community/ people to whom it
is common.
+ + +

What proof do you have that iapacho is a typo?


+ + +
All I need
+ + +

Bailey noted that a "Common name ... may be a degenerate form of another
word, as markery is of mercury."

+ + +
A more appropriate example may be "bodark" for Maclura pomifera, a
corruption of "bois d'arc"
+ + +

Thus, iapacho could be considered a common name even if it is a typo of
lapacho.

+ + +
No. Possibly if the first people to introduce lapacho into the English
language had made the typo and had written it "iapacho" and it had
subsequently been
accepted in other books or common speech then it would have been or might
have been a common name. Now it only is a typo.
+ + +

I agree that what you were doing by making vague criticisms of Alex

Wilson's webpage article on Naturally Rot-Resistant Woods was in your
word "gossip" and inappropriate in a scientific newsgroup like
sci.bio.botany.

David R. Hershey


+ + +
I am glad to see you agreeing with yourself, if with nobody else. I hope
this makes you happy.
PvR


==================
What science has to do with your vague criticisms of a webpage is that

scientists are supposed to be specific. [snip]
David R. Hershey

+ + +
Depends on circumstance. There is a technical name for "being specific"

at length on topics you have no power to change just for the sake of filling
up
space: it is called "gossip". It is not supposed to be a scientific
endeavour.
PvR