On Tue, 06 May 2003 21:07:17 +0100, Hussein M.
wrote:

~On Tue, 06 May 2003 20:09:30 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
~
~On Tue, 06 May 2003 03:21:59 +0100, Hussein M. wrote:
~
~ I will have to phone my friend so he can drive me to the famous
~ local bluebell woods where I know they are non-scripta.
~
~Dig about on the net to find definative(*) ways of telling the
~difference, flower colour alone is not good enough. I have vague
~memories of the way the individual flower bells are arranged on the
~stem is the best method, one has them arranged all round the other
~tends to have them on one side. I *think* the English is all round but
~with the hybrids about gawd alone knows what happens. Combined with
~the pollen colour previously discussed and you can have a high
~confidence level on your identification.
~
~(*) If you can ever get a "definative" answer from the net. B-)

well this site (which I mentioned previously) is pretty much that.
http://www.plantlife.org.uk/bluebell/home.htm

In it is http://www.plantlife.org.uk/bluebell/plants.htm
which has a nice little interactive question and answer applet which
not only gives you information of the three types (English, Spanish
and hybrid) but allows you to feed in characteristics of whatever you
have in your plot/area and identify which you have.

The pollen's the biggest giveaway, which I now know the *right* way
round!!! Both hybrid and Spanish have blue/purple pollen, which I've
verified by going out in my back garden where I've got three huge
clumps of Hispanica, and it's definitely blue!


~Hi,
~
~I have done a search and went out last night at an unearthly hour to
~snip some blooms to compare them with the detailed pics of hispanica
~and non-scripta at this site:
~Plantas Sylvestres de Espana (Wild flowers of Spain)
~http://www.hoseito.com/FLORES%20SILV...on-scripta.htm
~http://www.hoseito.com/FLORES%20SILV...0hispanica.htm
~
~ There wasn't much difference in either of the plants these guys
~photographed and mine could have been either.

This is quite a survey - wow!

hmm I think what they have got as non-scripta isn't. That's the real
problem as you say, even those who are supposed to know better, don't.

~
~ Problem is, the pics of non-scripta at the Spanish site don't look
~and earthly like the pics of non-scripta to be found elsewhe
~
~http://www.bioimages.org.uk/HTML/P146932.HTM
~http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/southwest...ten/wallpaper/
~http://www.apl-385.demon.co.uk/rnhs/detail1.htm
~
~http://www.unigarden.com/egroepen/en...onscripta.html
~give the following description of non-scripta:
~Western Europe, both naturalised and indigenous.
~Syn. Endymion nutans, Scilla nutans, Scilla non-scripta
~non-scriptus = not striped
~nutans = nodding

ah so that's what they mean

~The bluebell scarcely appears as a pure species. In most areas we can
~mainly find hybrid groups of Hyacinthoides non-scripta and H.
~hispanica. These hybrids have wider leaves and inflorescences which
~barely nod. The original species is hardly ever planted in gardens and
~parks but varieties from crossbreeding are (see Hyacinthoides
~hispanica).
~
~I find the naming of the synonyms interesting.
~I don't know quite how erect and striped Scillas are, but the plants I
~got from Florajacs and the flowers portrayed on the Spanish site,
~apart form having a mauvey tinge which is absent from the plants
~pictured on bioimages, BBC etc. which are a deep velvety blue, also
~have an unmistakable darker streak running down the petals and do not
~have the drooping posture exhibited by the 'proper' pictures of
~non-scripta.

sounds like you could nail Florajacs with the Trades Description Act!

~Also interesting is the fact that The Plants of Gledhow Valley
~http://www.fgvw.co.uk/html/florafauna/plantlist1.htm
~list amongst their species:
~Bluebell (cross native/spanish)
~Bluebell (native)
~
~ It appears that hispanica hybridises with non-scripta so easily and
~is so much more adaptable that, as the man said, the original
~non-scripta hardly exists outside its wild niche unless propagated
~vegetatively. It seems even plantsmen and nurseries are now, in good,
~faith passing hybrids as non-scripta.
~
~ Prices should tell something.
~
~ How come The Herb Garden & Historical Plants Nursery - herbs, wild
~flowers & native species
~http://www.historicalplants.co.uk/section1.html
~
~- who purport to be as fastidious as they are able in supplying the
~correct plant, offer mail order H. non-scripta at 1.50 a throw but
~Florajacs can toss'em out at 12 squid per hundred i.e. 12 pence each?
~

I looked at Florajacs earlier in the year when I wanted to get some
snowdrops. They were, as you say, very very cheap. But... where are
they *getting* their bulbs from in that case? With snowdrops one
doesn't know if they've been dug up from the wild in Turkey, so I
decided perhaps not, and bought 100 from the very reputable Jacques
Amand in Stanmore. They were only a tenner at that, and I could help
myself to the ones I wanted as I'd driven there. They have perked up
nicely after planting so I have great hopes my little clumps will
survive the summer.

Mmmmm... why didn't I think of this before... wonder if they have
bluebells.....


--
jane

Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone,
you may still exist but you have ceased to live.
Mark Twain

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