On Thu, 15 May 2003 17:49:55 +0000 (UTC), "anton"
wrote:


Malcolm wrote in message 4a74b2e931751f1b12b9499abcefa76c@TeraNews...
Much as CONservation hooligans RSPB, Woodland Trust etc try to hide
it, the usage of tonnes of a highly toxic weedkiller has detrimental
effects on their reserves.

Gardeners think your OK with Roundup, a little here, a little there? I
don't think so.

The fact is there is no substitute for hard work,

Really? Why are you using a technology that involves
hundreds or thousands of chemicals thne instead of a quill
pen, hypocrite?

you keep spraying
this junk and you'll end up killing everything including US!!


Have you ever used a car or a plane? Do you ever buy
anything that comes by a powered vehicle? But there's no
substitute for hard work, is there? - so walk.

You may only use a bottle now and again, times that by the millions of
bottles sold annually, and we have big problems.

Do you use toothpaste? soap? non-homemade shoes?
There's no substitute for hard work- grow you own shoes.

The farmers use
millions of tonnes per annum to grow their crops, and we end up eating
the crops! go figure.


And the people use millions of tons of paint, instead of lime-wash. We live
in rooms that are painted! Go figure.

Think before you fall for the hype.


http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...glyphosate.htm

Glyphosate
Toxicity

Glyphosate can be acutely toxic to non-target plants, including
aquatic plants and algae.

Well, go to the foot of our stairs. You get a lot of aquatic plants
on my drive.

The effects of this toxicity on natural
plant succession alters the ecology of treated areas.

Yeah. So do the scores of trees I've planted 'alter the ecology
of [planted] areas'.

In most cases,
the plant species diversity will decrease, and along with it, the
numbers of insects, mammals and birds utilizing these areas as
habitat.

Nope.


Santillo, D.J. et al (1989), "Response of songbirds to
glyphosate-induced habitat changes on clear-cut." Journal of Wildlife
Management, v. 53 no. 1, 64-71.


Have you read anything entitled "response of people to
not living nasty brutish short disease-ridden povetry-struck
lives without chemicals" ? I thought not.

Connor, J.F. and McMillan, L.M. (1990), "Winter utilization by moose
of glyphosate-treated cutovers." Alces 26:91-103.


Well, I haven't noticed any difference to the moose round here
since I started using Roundup. I haven't noticed any moose
round here at all, ot be honest.

Glyphosate is toxic to mammals:


With an LD50 of 4000mg/kg? Don't make me laugh. What's
the LD50 of table salt, by the way?


Most toxicity tests cited by industry and the EPA investigate toxicity
through oral exposure routes. The toxicity of glyphosate and the
common surfactant POEA is much greater through inhalation routes of
exposure, which is a likely exposure scenario for humans residing in
areas of Colombia.

OK- I'll stay clear of Columbia.

Experimentally induced inhalation of Roundup by
rats produced 100% mortality in 24 hours.

How kind. Normal testing only kills 50%.

Humans ingesting as little
as 100 ml of Roundup have died ( suicide attempts using Roundup have a
10-20% success rate.)


Tried drinking 100ml of bleach? 100 tablets of paracetamol?
It's a nasty rough world out there.

Martinez, T.T. and Brown, K. (1991) "Oral and pulmonary toxicology of
the surfactant used in Roundup herbicide." Proceedings of the Western
Pharmacology Society, v. 34, 43-46.

Adam, A., et al (1997) "The oral and intratracheal toxicities of
Roundup and its components on rats." Veterinary and Human Toxicology,
Jun 39(3):147-51.

Glyphosate produces toxic effects on mammalian sperm.

but you don't mention any quantities.

Glyphosate is a
potential endocrine disruptor.


potential? Care to make a list of common chemicals that
appear in households that are potential endocrine disruptors?
have you got a clear view on whetehr your rubber duck is or isn't?

Youssef, M.I., et al (1995), "Toxic effects of carbofuran and
glyphosate on semen characteristics in rabbits." Journal of
Environmental Science and Health, part B, v. 30, 515-534.

Walsh, LP, et al (2000) "Roundup inhibits steroidogenesis by
disrupting steroidogenic acute regulatory (stAR) protein expression."
Environmental Health Perspectives, AUG v108(N8):769-776.

Toxic to aquatic organisms including fish and invertebrates:

Studies with fish show that glyphosate can be moderately toxic alone,
but when combined with the surfactant normally found in commercial
products, the toxicity is greater.

..but still incredibly low comapred with may other substances.

Toxicity increases with higher
temperatures in fish; one study found that the toxicity of glyphosate
doubled in bluegill and in rainbow trout test subjects when the
temperature of the water was increased from 45 to 63 degrees F.

I'll keep it away from my steamed salmon then.


Folmar, L.C. et al (1979) "Toxicity of the herbicide glyphosate and
several of its formulations to fish and aquatic invertebrates."
Archives of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology, v 8, 269-278.

Significant stream drift of midge larva occurred when Roundup was
added to test water at 2 mg/L.

That's quite a dose in anything larger than a barrel. Doe sit
happen?

Glyphosate can act as a phosphorous source and could stimulate
undesirable eutrophication of waterways.


How much would you need?

Austin, A.P., et al (1991), "Impact of an organophosphate herbicide
(glyphosate) on periphyton communities developed in experimental
streams." Bulletin of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology, v.
47, 29-35.

Toxic to soil microbes including nitrogen-fixing bacteria,
mycorrhizae, actinomycete, and yeast isolates:


Those poor old soil microbes. In what doses, for how long?

One study found that glyphosate inhibited the growth of 59% of
selected naturally occurring soil microbes.


In what doses?

Carlisle, S.M. and Trevors, J.T. (1988), "Glyphosate in the
environment." Water, Air, and Soil Pollution 39:409-420.

Glyphosate, by inhibiting the growth of some microbes allows the
overgrowth of others. This includes microbial plant pathogens.

In what doses?

Fusarium is a naturally occurring soil fungus that is a plant
pathogen. Fusarium invades the roots of plants and either kills the
plant outright or prevents normal growth. Subsistence farmers in
Colombia have noted that fields accidently sprayed with herbicides in
attempts to destroy Coca do not produce at the same level as they did
prior to being sprayed, and in some cases, no crops grow at all.


herbicides? Any particular herbicide?

That's enough vague nonsense.

Easy to see how Monsanto make so much money, with gullible people like
you around, to buy highly toxic substances you don't even need anyway!

I bet you have a star named after you, and even an acre of the moon?

Must have seen you coming miles off.


--








So, you dont like reasoned,
well thought out, civil debate?

I understand.

/´¯/)
/¯../
/..../
/´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
/'/.../..../......./¨¯\
('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
\.................'...../
''...\.......... _.·´
\..............(
\.............\..