Robert Seago writes
In article ,
Oz wrote:
Tim Tyler writes
By contrast - for many pesticides - the compensation accrues to the
those in the supply chain - who can generate more produce - and the
health cost is borne by consumers.

1) There is no direct health cost, due to the approvals testing.

2) There is most definitely a health cost for consuming produce
contaminated by fungi. Aflatoxins and vomitotoxins for example.

My problem with the views of you guys is your apparent certainty about
this.

With good reason.

You would have been among the people arguing that organochlorines had
never been shown to be hazardous. Are you now?

DDT is fine used in small amounts. The problem is that it does not
biodegrade and is not well excreted by mammals. Used the way w.europe
did, in small quantities on very few crops it might (but probably
wouldn't) have been OK. Used in the US many times/annum on hundreds of
millions of acres every year (not to mention in india, china and russia)
it most certainly wasn't. That's why it was banned worldwide (except
russia and china went on using it - despite what they said) in the 70's.

I have no idea whether it would pass existing toxicity tests, almost
certainly not as some of it's breakdown products are apparently
carcinogens. It would certainly easily fail on biodegradeablility.

For malaria control in third world houses, where the total world usage
would probably be measured in a few tons, I would support it's informed
use. There are very good reasons for this.

I will still grow what I can myself. I don't like eating carrots that I am
advised to peel, and cut off the top cm. when I can grow my own with a
mubh superior taste with no problems and no pesticides.

Here I have given up. Too many umbelliferae in the area (cowparsely and
relatives) means root fly is guaranteed every year.

I accept your comments about growing strawberries for example, ( about the
difference of growing in vast acreages). I use very insecticides and no
herbicides on my allotment.

The swiss chard gets cabbage white about one year in three.
The courgettes get viral attacks (no spray for that).
The climbing beans/runners get aphid attack, but if left predators
control this well as long as the fly comes in early.

but I haven't used an insecticide for 10 years.

Paraquat, sometimes roundup is a handy weedkiller.
Gets used once or twice a year.

A dose of bag npk about once every two years.

The three pests I get, are white flies on brassicas, but they don't do
significant damage to my crop. The allotment site is rife with them. When
I used to spray, I gave up, because there were many more around which soon
took their place. (No I don't think using systemic options that afford
protection for 3 weeks is worth the risks).

Whitefly? Do you mean the woolly aphid?
Funnily I haven't come across real whitefly as a brassica problem.

Black fly on Broad beans is a
problem on the Spring sown ones only, which I control with washong up
liquid or pyrethrum.

The synthetic pyrethrums are probably better and safer than pyrethrum.
I've put the book away, so I can't look it up.

The other problem is milldew on Gooseberries. I thought that good pruning
was going to deal with this, but have decided to get new stock with some
resistant properties, as soon as this crop is in.

Ahh, yes. There are some good, safe, wildewicides but varietal control
is easier. If it's effective, often it's not.

I fully accept that the scale of agriculture is quite different, but also
think that the self certainty about the rightness of using chemical
control for everything, and the general conservatism of the industry,
along with the domination of agriculture by established big business
stifles much more innovative approaches that could be made.

You completely misread farmer usage of pesticides. They are a very major
cost and a pain to apply with the heavy regulations (eg on wind). We all
try and use as little as possible as a consequence. Preventative
treatment allows this particularly well.

If your remember my infection sequence the typically you miss the first
generation (only one plant, maybe one leaf, out of millions in a field).
Now if you spray then, usually with a very low dose (1/2 to 1/4 or even
less) then you seriously inhibit the initial foci and protect the rest
of the crop from infection. Almost all fungicides (and even some
insecticides and herbicides) are FAR better at preventing incoming
infection than eradicating an existing one, so even these low doses
protect the unaffected plants. You thus reduce the innoculum and stop
the second generation of infection in it's tracks. You can repeat this
every three to six weeks depending on pest and product. An established
field-wide infection is virtually unstoppable, even with full rates, and
very significant damage occurs. The net result is much less spray, and
much cleaner crops.

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.