On 8 Jun 2003 11:13:32 -0500, (lms) wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 7 Jun 2003 23:24:37 -0500, (lms) wrote:

You're not sorry and you meant all words of all insults, but it's no
grand achievement of mine, I just planted it and watered it and occasionally
heaved great shovelsfull of horse manure way high in the air so when it came
down Mr. Lincoln could put it where he wanted it.

Coming from the king of sinde, sidearmed insults, I'll take your
comment as high praise.

dave, you didn't really go to the next level, I'm glad to see that. really, I
am.


I'm sorry that I ticked you off. It's just that the
picture you posted didn't portray the plant in a very good light. IOW,
it looked pretty ugly. Sort of like a larger version of my Touch of
Class, which I find a pretty ugly plant, structure wise.

What would you know about struc ture, you're still stuck in the hybrid tea
rut.

Ahhhh, so that snide comment that you made in the other post *WAS*
meant for me. I thought so. However, less than half of my roses are
HTs and three of them came with the house.

Therefore, you're simply wrong.

Sorry.

You lose.

hahaha. no, Jeff Gordon loses, he loses too much, he doesn't win so much
anymore. and that comment was just general, wasn't meant for you, honest.

I thought it was a general poke at me, since I'm the only one that
you're at loggerheads with at the moment and your repeating it here
just reinforced that impression.

Sorry.

Bigger is almost always better in all things roses. With new mini
introductions and at rose shows they have to beat them back with sticks.
You see, elemento, the word BIG is a STAPLE in rose catalogs and everywhere
else in life.
Much much better to have a BIG The Fair than a puny The Fairy, no?

I don't know, as my Fairy is over 10 feet wide.

That's big. The one here's only 4-5 but lush and green and going everywhere it
can, has a lot of competition. surrounded by Margaret Merrill, Pearl
Meidilland, Trier, and Grapes! Have to hack grape today mof.
http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~mstephen/tf03.jpg

Well, I cheated. It's a climbing Fairy, of course. I had a rosarian
over to the house last week taking that possible white sport that I
recently posted about and she said she didn't even know that there was
a climbing sport of Fairy. And she said she asked several people at a
recent Birmingham (maybe) show and none of *them* had ever heard of
one either. So, I guess this plant isn't as widely known as I assumed
that it was.

There are several people in the neighborhood that have Fairy bushes
planted all by their lonesomes and, frankly, it's pretty unappealing
that way. Much better to plant them en masse, I think. They look like
snowcones buried up to heir necks.

Of course, from what I understand, she has a pretty good reason to
dislike *you*.

That'd be accurate. Chase off 90 percent of the real rosers, all you're left
with is brainwashees. Like you.

Pluuueze. I can make up my own mind about people. Frankly, I take this
comment as pretty much the type of behavior that you are decrying in
Shiva.

Plus, I think you know about the kind of behind the scenes stuff that
I'm talking about. Hopefully *you've* cleaned up your act.

My observation is that she's cleaned up
her act *real good though, you'd never even have a clue of all the
outright filth which she associated with, participated in and
wholeheartedly uncouraged once upon an ugly ugly time--unless you read all
the snide remarks she continues to spew at every opportunity, talking to/at
people who long ago decided they were finished with dealing with that psycho.

Would these comments count as snide? If so, then what's your prob?

Even these probably just go right over your head. Maybe they don't-- maybe
you condone, maybe you relish, the continued contentiousness.
Her current mode is acceptable, I'd rather just leave it at that.

So, baiting her when she's "playing nice" is "acceptable?

But that doesn't matter one way or another to me. You
just seem like another troll to me...

andso beit


Which is why I was
surprised that you didn't fall all over yourself over Cass' picture.

I'm not surprised that you're surprised cause you are thick, you can't even
unnerstand it when I flat out say my comments were tongue in cheek.
Of course you read Cass' follow-up. Well, what she said...go with that one.

Cool. I get it now that it's tongue-in-cheek. With you, it's hard to
tell though.

excellent!

So, if that's your intention, how can you diss someone for not being
able to tell the diff? And why get so upset when someone gets it
wrong?

Oh wait, most of what you grow is sprawling and ungainly (to my eye
that is). There doesn't seem to be a place in your garden for a
well-shaped mass of blosso...ooops, I mean blooms. Of course, it's
hard to tell since most of the links to your roses on your website are
broken. Therefore, I have to rely on what you post here.

One, remember the hybrid tea rut,

Thank you Mr. Lincoln.

and to offer as a rebutt 96 pics of what's
blooming toDay! to the tripe you speak would be a waste of my time.

Glad to have wasted so much of your time today.

don't consider it a waste of time, really. It's important what you think.
It's important wandering through the roses, I do it almost every day.


But I've been doing that anyway. With my cheap digi cam. I don't much like
it.
Two, none of my rose pic links, few that nthey are currently, are broken.
The
pics I post here go in the same directory as those on my website, sometimes I
link them there, sometimes I don't.

I'm sorry, but most of the pics that I clicked the other day 404'd (as
you would put it).

Some people let Netscape's cache control them instead of the other way
around.
Or Internet Exploder, same difference.

Frankly, since it was the first time that I clicked those links, I
doubt that IE's cache had anything to do with it.

Perhaps your hosting site had problems that day. I went back to your
site and pics seem to be coming up today (and no, my cache hasn't been
cleared since then). I especially like Trier, which yes, *is* in
Germany - I lived about 30 km from it. Beautiful city on the Mosel.
Great Roman Wall remnants with a nice big stone gate as well.

BTW, I notice a pretty fair number of HTs. Hope you don't get stuck in
the rut.

funny thing about HTs, the scrawniest plant imaginable can produce some really
amazing blooms, infact I've had them produce absolute killers right before they
croak. Like Adolph Horstmann.
So that full-page bloom can actually be very deceiving. But it's the only
way to sell roses.

Well, you yourself talked about big/catalog appeal being important in
the scheme of things. Frankly, there's big (when it comes to blooms -
probably important in a lot of peoples minds) and big when it comes to
plant structure (hardly important in an HT - when was the last time
you saw a picture of a 10 ft + HT with little foliage and no blooms in
a catalog).

For me, big would be important in a bush-type rose, but of little
significance in an HT. I have a plant that combines the both of both
worlds though, and that's Aloha. It definitely doesn't have an HT
appearance in the bush form that it takes in my yard.

Frankly, I don't really care all that much for HTs in general, other
than the fact that I have a few varieties that make good arrangements
in vases and are eye-catchers when in bloom. Otherwise, I think that
most of the time, they're pretty ugly plants. I much prefer things
that have more visual interest in addition to the blooms, i.e.
structure and foliage.

and almost every new person who's ever seen it has had some
kind of reaction. Recently the New Jersey unit's comments on this grope
were
a case in point.
Being too critical of King Abraham is akin to talking to your Queen Mother
about gravity.

Weird. You go ballistic over a plant that *I* happen to like and only
because of its NAME. How weird is that?

How is that weird, the world revolves around words that give off bad vibes.
You have a strange idea of ballistic.

I think that this post has a lot of ballistic in it.

yeah it does, that one didn't.

I thought that dissing a whole class of "follow-on" Peaces was pretty
ascerbic. Ballistic? Almost. The followup to my post certainly was
borderline ballistic.

I think it's weird that you freak out over the name of a plant that
has just as good of structure *and* more vivid colors than your two
favorite Peace plants. You rave over the variation in colors in Peace
and yet it can't hold a candle to the variations and depth of color
that Desert Peace offers. And Chicago Peace only comes close, from the
fictures I've seen.

fictures, I like it. And I don't disbelieve you.

I liked it too when I saw it.


Maybe you need to embrace your feminine side.

I embrace my feminine side plenty enough, I'm growing five clitoria this
season.

You might try interacting with them.

They're not big enough yet.

That's why you have to interact with them. They get bigger that way.

I don't know how you make this leap. But, for the record, I now get
that you were talking tongue in cheek. I *really* didn't know that,
since most of the bushes that you've posted here don't resemble that
in the least. And since you seem opposed to regular shape in roses, I
thought that you might have thought of that as a pruned big yew with
blooms.

I have a yew tree, same size as Sunsprite, they're basically twins, nope, no
confusion.

Can't tell if you take my point.

Yes, I took the gloves off when *you* hassled me about Desert Peace.

shrug

Yep, you love to dish it out, but you run away crying when someone
cuts *you*.

Nothing new there, I suppose.

sorry, never cried any tears about this ng, and I'm here now for as long as I
want to be?

Sorry, run away crying just a figure of speech.

I guess I've ticked you off since you're using my name in a pretty
disrespectful manner.

Weil, a properly grown Mr. Lincoln ain't for everyone, that's still agreed.
That is your name, isn't it?

Yeah it is. But don't be disengenuous here. It doesn't suit you.

Hey wait, maybe it does.

what would johnny cochran say?

Who's "Johnny" Cochran?

People can call me by my name, my first name, my last name-- I don't care.

I thought that names and the way we use them were IMPORTANT.

s******

This is why it's hard to tell when you're talking tongue-in-cheek,
because you're all over the map.

!!


Of course, that seems to be the way of most word
bullies. They can dish it out but they can't take it. Sorry about
that.

Sorry Weil, that word's already taken. And remember, you're the one calling
someone's rose 'ugly'.

Actually, that was "pretty ugly".

And I wasn't even talking to you.

Damn, here I was thinking that I was Cass.

The person I was talking to you was smart enough to recognize when someones
pullin her leg.

I'm glad that she got it. She's been dealing with you a lot longer
than I have.

'dealing' with me implies that's some kind of burden. perhaps it is, but it's
pretty clear otherwise to a dimbulb like me. If I were just here trolling
rosies and gwew no roses, that would be one thing, but the fact is, I grow a
sheeeeitload of roses and love to talk about them. That's a big problem for
anyone wanting to do any 'dealing' with me.

Sorry. Didn't mean to offend by using the word "dealing".

Heck, I'm just a novice when it comes to roses. My garden's only in
its 3rd year. Coincidentally, that's when I bought my house. If it
weren't for the big 40 year old Aloha bush in the front yard, I might
not be have become enamored with roses.

But the "problem", as I see it, if there *is* a problem, is that you
don't mind dishing it out but you get defensive when someone kicks it
right back at you. Note that I never even interacted with you until
you took potshots at Desert Peace simply because of its name. Was I
defensive in my own right? Probably. But I really *did* find it odd
that someone wouldn't like a rose simply because of its name's
heritage. Still do. Would I buy an Adolph Horstmann if it were called
Adolph Hitler? Probably not. So it's not an absolute thing.

And, as you can see, I don't mind mixing it up. I generally treat
people with the same measure of respect that they treat me, and I
don't mind a dust-up now and again.

Once again, while I knew that you were hyperbolizin', I really *did*
think that, based on pics that you've posted here, it wouldn't be your
cup of tea.

shrug

cool. likewise

PS, when I make statements like "That's pretty ugly/ungainly/etc.,
it's implied that this is a IMO situation, with the acknowledgement
that above all, the cardinal principle is that there isn't any right
or wrong in garden opinions/implementation as along as the gardener is
pleasing him/herself. That doesn't mean that people can't agree or
disagree either though.