On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 03:43:05 GMT, Repeating Decimal
wrote:


I do not have problems with other people trying to be organic per se. It is
just that I have no understanding of just what organic means in such a
context. My scientific background values internal consistency in a set of
rules or values. I am not getting it. It seems to me that growing organic
food is a religion. your reply tends to confirm that. You are free to
practice your religion. I am free not to.

But it's not a religion, as far as I'm concerned. I don't
think I phrased my post very well, sorry.

My practices (being an 'organic' gardener) are based on a
lot of reading and thought going back to when I started
gardening, about 30 years ago. They're also based on a lot
of non-gardening events that have happened over the past 30
years. They're also based on my desire not to increase the
earth's burden of pesticides (never mind whether consuming
the pesticides will actually hurt me or not).

I'm 59: chances are I'll die anyway before consuming more
pesticides will harm me. But I don't like to leave a more
polluted environment behind me than I have to.

My practice of organic gardening is also based on my
political philosophy and my desire to help my area attain
local self-sufficiency and to see the USA be more secure in
the area of food. I guess you could say that I'm trying to
practice 'sustainable gardening' as much as I can: with as
few inputs from elsewhere as I can manage. This is really a
political thing, as far as I'm concerned. I like to be as
'low-tech' as I can and avoid contributing to giant
multi-national corporations as much as I possibly can.

I would rather, for instance, use nylon net to prevent
cabbage worm damage than use rotenone. The nylon net will
likely last me many years: there's less burden on the earth
for manufacturing it once than (presumably) there is for
manufacturing consumables. (I realize this is a very
trivial example.)

The reason I don't care to debate this with you - or with
anyone else, for that matter - on Usenet is that I don't
have the time or the interest.

I KNOW what my views on the subject are, and I know what
they are based on and I don't, frankly, give a damn what
your views on the subject are. If you had spent the last 30
years reading what I've read and had my life experiences,
chances are you might hold the same views. Well, you don't.
OK.

I will try to be respectful of your views - which are based
on your reading and life experiences, presumably - and I'd
expect the same from you. Calling my views those of a
'scam' or 'nut' isn't respectful.


Nevertheless, I really do wish to understand just what *organic* means to
its practitioners. I don't like to use pesticides unnecessarily either. On
the other hand, If something makes no sense scientifically, I will point
that out. For example, is Safer soap organic? On what basis. If Safer soap
is organic, why not sodium soap even if it is not the greatest substance to
put on soil?

I don't know what either Safer soap or sodium soap are -
never heard of either one. Therefore, I couldn't tell you
wish I'd use. I have no particular aversion to 'chemicals'
as such, I know much more about the subject than would allow
that silliness.

My own approach tends towards barriers: protecting the
plants via floating row cover or nylon net or planting at
times of the year when the insect pests aren't there.

One principle exposed by Cole, author of the book IIRC "Professional
Suicide," subtitled "and how your company helps you commit it is: "Don't ask
you boss what you are supposed to do. It only points out to him/her that the
boss is insecure when you ask because the boss is unlikely to the his job
description as well. I am asking. What makes an organic gardener organic?


I hope I've gotten across to you the idea that I can't recap
30 years of reading and thinking here in a Usenet newsgroup
- haven't the time.

If someone wanted to *pay* me to do so, I'd be very glad to
prepare a detailed report, with references. I'm well able
to do so, I worked in science all my life, and my husband
has a PhD in Chemistry and would be glad to help me when/if
his knowledge would be helpful. Hell, pay me enough, and
I'd write you a book!

But for me to commit serious amounts of time, I need to
either (a) make money or (b) save money by doing so. (Both
my husband and I have health problems and are unable to work
full-time so money is - unfortunately - a big factor in our
lives at the moment.)

In a nutshell, speaking for my own personal self and I make
no pretense to speak for anyone else, I think you could say
that I desire to avoid pesticides (weed killers, fungicides
too) by practicing good husbandry, and I desire to use
sustainable fertilizer (compost made in our yard, mulches
from our grass), and *local* inputs as far as possible.

For example, I prefer - when I must buy something - to buy
the spent-mushroom soil (from the same state in which I
live) rather than buying some fertilizer manufactured in a
factory halfway across the country or halfway across the
world.

I will, however, use commercial (non-organic) plant food on
plants in the house rather than using (smelly) fish emulsion
in the house.

In closing, I'll repeat (for emphasis) a paragraph from
above - this is the key to 'organic gardening' for me
PERSONALLY, the major reason why I try to do it:

My practice of organic gardening is also based on my
political philosophy and my desire to help my area attain
local self-sufficiency and to see the USA be more secure in
the area of food. I guess you could say that I'm trying to
practice 'sustainable gardening' as much as I can: with as
few inputs from elsewhere as I can manage. This is really a
political thing, as far as I'm concerned. I like to be as
'low-tech' as I can and avoid contributing to giant
multi-national corporations as much as I possibly can.

Pat