22 Jun 2003 19:04:56 GMT Sean Houtman wrote:

From: Archimedes Plutonium

Sean Houtman wrote:


Many nitrogen fixing legumes will shed their nodules in periods of
particular
stress. At those times, the miniscule amounts of Nitrogen available in the
nodules will become available to other plants. In some instances, such as a
plentiful supply of soil nitrogen, they won't form the nodules at all.

Sean

Yes, thanks for the information. A few days ago I dug up some Trefoil to
see what nodules there are. Found many.

Question: if we see a nodule on a plant then are we guaranteed that the plant
fixes nitrogen with the proper bacterium? I wonder about the practice
of the application of inoculants of bacteria. So, if the legume has nodules
is
proof that the field has nitrogen fixing bacteria on those legumes?

There are other things that can cause nodules, not necessarily nitrogen fixing
bacteria. A nodule is a bit like a gall on a root, and galls can be caused by
any number of things. Many nitrogen fixing bacteria do not even form nodules on
their host plants, Shepherdia, Elaeagnus, and Dactylus do not form nodules when

I have some Shepherdia; did not know it was nitrogenfixing.

Sean has anyone given a measure for the density of nitrogen produced by
nitrogen fixing plants? I would like to know a comparison of alfalfa, trefoil,
and locust trees.


they have bacteria fix nitrogen for them, but they aren't Legumes either.


I wonder about locust trees. I have dug up the roots of a few but never
found anything resembling nodules. The roots are sort of orange colored
outer surface. Is the reason they are orange colored because of nitrogen
fixing bacteria?

Legumes have a kind of hemoglobin called Leghemoglobin, it is red like other
hemoglobins. The orange color is likely other pigment, possibly a carotene of
some sort. Many woody legumes either do not form nodules or they only have them
during certain times of the year.

How fascinating. Learn something new today. And my first thoughts are that
"how is it connected to my inverse-theory of plants to animals?" Sean, I
proposed a theory that the plant kingdom is dual to the animal kingdom and that
it is impossible to ever have a animal with a carbon skeleton system but that
plants have carbon skeletons (their trunk) easily. And so the question for me
then becomes does this Leghemoglobin support or sink that theory that plants
have something impossible for animals to have and vice versa. I am guessing this
Leghemoglobin has something to do in facilitating the bacteria with oxygen.

I do not know. Whether Leghemoglobin supports or sinks my theory that the
Plant kingdom is a dual to the Animal kingdom with lines of impossibilites running
through each. If a plant can have a form of hemoglobin then can a
plant have a calcium skeleton like most animals? Looks like I am going to
have to return to this topic in the future.




Question: what does one look for in locust tree roots for the nitrogen fixing
component?

If you want to look for nodules, make sure you look at the finer, non-woody
roots.


Question: do locust trees emit some sort of herbicide akin to what
blackwalnut
emits as juglone?

Not to my knowledge, in other posts you mentioned sap, that sap is just gum.


Yes, it did have a sort of glossy, gummy appearance. I believe locust respond to
trimming of their branches with the issuance of more thorns.

At the moment I am trying to get cuttings of a sunburst locust to take. Anyone
know if cuttings will root?

Archimedes Plutonium,
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies