I visited a Large pond a few years ago at a resort that had several 36"
+ carp that did quite well on popcorn, that was all they were being fed

John Rutz

Tom La Bron wrote:
First John,

There is no such thing as wild KOI. KOI are the domesticated variety. The
only thing that she says about wild carp is that they have a brief life in
the wild.

She then goes into talking about protein needed by KOI; 'nough said. She
is still wrong. This is getting laughable.

Tom L.L.
"john.stoddard" wrote in message
news
What she is saying maybe true for wild Carp and Koi...

How many times have you been to a wild koi pond and found naturally

occuring

bags/boxes/containers of koi food.

Diets of Wild and Captitive Fish should not be compared
"Tom La Bron" wrote in message
...

Excuse me Ingrid,

Please, give us just one meaningful scientific reference that "supports"
what you are touting. Please don't use the Canadian professor again who

is

a salmon and trout specialist and has never worked with Carp or KOI.

Why

do you insist on continuing to spout this drivel. Algae is made up of
cellulose which also makes up the majority of Spirulina, and any other

plant

that carp eat whether it is aquatic or land based.

Most catfish foods have the same ingredients including vitamins,

minerals,

etc as the food that you are always touting, in fact, Rangan makes

catfish

foods and the process is very similar. I have spoken to the president

of

the company.

Dr. Werner Steffens, Dr. Roland Billard, and Dr. Robert Stickney and Dr.
John Halver all say that KOI and carp should have 28 to 32% protein to
maintain these fish. All of these men are Aquaculturists and fish
nutritionist and I have mentioned this to you and any one else who wants

to

know what is the right thing to feed their fish over and over again and

yet

it doesn't seem to soak in. The SRAC also has reports out saying the

same

thing and still you refuse to do any real searching to find out the

truth

for yourself.

One of these days, you will realize how wrong you have been, but I

surely

will not be hold my breath and waiting for it to happen.

Tom L.L.
--------------------------------------------------
wrote in message
...

The average age of wild carp live in those european rivers is brief

indeed. There is

a difference between just getting enough and thriving. Everything I

have

read says

koi need protein to build muscles and fat for energy. That they

cannot

digest

complex carbohydrates.
Koi teeth are not made for thorough mastication of foods, nor do they

secrete

digestive juices into their mouth while they chew. Our land based

adaptations help

us start pre-digesting our food so the nutrients can be extracted

before

the food

mass exits our body.
Koi dont have a true stomach, they have a pyloric ceca which contains

digestive

enzymes and their liver and pancreas secrete enzymes right into the

intestines. Land

based animals like us produce acids that start the breakdown complex

and

land based

foods in the large stomach.
Everything koi have evolved to eat is wet with little to no cellulose.

They have

evolved to be a perpetual eating machine. They eat small amounts of

low

fiber,

nutrient rich foods all day long, not big chunks of dry food with lots

of

fiber/filler. Fiber does not help them digest out the protein and

fats

they need

from the mass of food moving through their intestines in a large

bolus.

Koi are adapted to digesting simple fats, the kind that go rancid very

fast if food

is sitting around in a warehouse. But corn oil and vegetable oils are

typically used

in cheap fish farm foods because they are cheap and dont go rancid at

room

temp.

Manufacturers of food for farmers that grow food fish (catfish) have

found

ways of

pre-digesting the complex carbohydrates and fats so they are available

to

put size

and bulk on catfish quickly. People do report fish fed on corn

develop

fatty livers.

I dont know if this is directly related to the corn in the food, or

the

fact that the

food could be rancid anyway and rancid oils will cause fatty liver

disease. In any

case, food fish are processed and in the stores before any problems

show

up.

OTOH, Jo Ann, who routinely does necropsies on GF and koi says she has

never found

fatty deposits in fish fed on high protein, high fat diets.
Ingrid

"Phyllis and Jim Hurley" wrote:
I suspect that carp in european rivers were pretty flexible in

their feeding habits and that it may have been hard for them to get

the

high

protein diets we feed...don't know, just a guess.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.







--





John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

good judgement comes from bad experience, and that comes from bad
judgement

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com